Lasting Power of Attorney

Discussion in 'I care for a person with dementia' started by Crag, May 16, 2015.

  1. Crag

    Crag Registered User

    Jan 3, 2015
    I'm trying to sort the form out for Lasting Power of Attorney health and welfare. I think I've done it apart from the signatures of a witness and 'Certificate Provider'.

    It states the Certificate Provider can be someone who has known dad for at least 2 years, or a GP etc, but no family members. So I was thinking one of the neighbours who've known dad for the best part of 50 years, but then underneath that it asks for the Certificate Provider to comment on how they know dad, but they can't be just an acquaintance.
    Would such a neighbour suffice?

    I suggested to mum to get Dad's GP to sign it, but she's all in a panic that the GP will not have the time to do it.

    Also, Mum and Dad sorted 'Enduring Power of Attorney Property and Finance' with a solicitor, costing over £1000.00.
    It was barely a year prior to when Lasting Power of Attorney coming about, but they were informed that Enduring Power of Attorney would suffice
    Is this correct, or were they fobbed off, and we will have to do Property and Finance too now?

    I'd appreciate any advice as Mum's in a spin about it, which is starting to get me spinning too
  2. sue38

    sue38 Registered User

    Mar 6, 2007
    Wigan, Lancs
    It really depends on how well the neighbour knows your dad. If he just gives him a wave in the street then no, he's probably no more than an acquaintance. If however he chats to him on a regular basis, knows about his family etc. then he may be suitable.

    The Enduring Power of Attorney should be fine for financial matters - there should be no need to do a Lasting Power of Attorney for Property and Financial affairs. As always you should seek professional legal advice, but I would steer clear of the previous solicitors - £1,000 for 2 Enduring Powers of Attorney is astronomical. If you can't find a suitable friend to act as a certificate provider it may be worth ringing round a few solicitors to see what they would charge just for acting as certificate provider.
  3. reedysue

    reedysue Registered User

    Nov 4, 2014
    Mum's solicitor charged £358 which included the fee to register with the Office of the Public Guardian so it is definitely worth ringing around.
  4. Crag

    Crag Registered User

    Jan 3, 2015
    Thanks for the reply.
    I haven't a clue on solicitors costs, but I think the £1000.00 also included doing their Wills.
    We have a couple of good neighbours that Mum and Dad know more than just to a wave in the street. It was just the box asking how they know dad that they have to fill in that has thrown me.
    I didn't want the form to fail on the grounds a neighbour had written "they've lived a few doors away from Dad for 50 years"
    They also have friends that they go out for a meal with on a weekly basis, and have holidayed with a number of times. They would have more to write in the box than the neighbours. But would writing that suffice?
    I could use the neighbours as witnesses then
  5. its a struggle

    its a struggle Registered User

    #5 its a struggle, May 16, 2015
    Last edited: May 16, 2015
    Witness / Certificate provider

    Morning Crag,
    We did LPA for MIL not long after FIL died five years ago. Managed all of it ourselves and even got mum a rebate on the fee. Check out the notes that accompany the form for how to do that!

    I have the LPA in front of me as I type - Mum's certificate providers were: 1. next door neighbour who had known her for 15 years whom she saw as a friend, and is described on the form as ' family friend for past 15 years'. 2. our best man! who has been a close family friend since birth!!! Described on form as 'close family friend for 53 years'. The witnesses were their respective spouses. We have both H&W and P&FA. Both were registered and returned to us without any problems.
    Hope this helps.
    Can't comment on EPA, but I'm sure someone will be able to help with that.
  6. Crag

    Crag Registered User

    Jan 3, 2015
    Thank you

    Between you I think I'm just sorted.
  7. its a struggle

    its a struggle Registered User

    Forgot so say on my earlier reply that the test is, can the certificate providers & witnesses provide assurance that the Donor is not under any duress to sign LPA.
    For us was, do the people we are asking understand what Mum wants to do and were they happy that we had not coerced her in any way. Happily for us it was all her idea and she was adamant that she did not want 'the authorities' telling us how to spend her money 'if it comes to that' :)
  8. Crag

    Crag Registered User

    Jan 3, 2015
    Yes, both witnesses and Certificate Providers that I now have in mind would act in dad's interests, and have done in the past.

    Dad would have struggled with the form 30 years ago, as he was always working more with his hands than his head. :)
  9. its a struggle

    its a struggle Registered User

    Good to hear you are comfortable with the people you are going to ask. Good luck with the forms!

    Incidentally, Mum doesn't want to be a guinea-pig so she said that on the form! it reads 'no novel or experimental treatment' ;)
  10. lin1

    lin1 Registered User

    Jan 14, 2010
    East Kent
    #10 lin1, May 16, 2015
    Last edited: May 16, 2015
    Hello Crag. I can confirm that although the EPA was replaced several yrs ago, you can still legally use it or register one that was created signed etc before the cut off date.

    I do recommend people do the Health and Welfare LPA, I have seen far to many posts on here where people later came to regret the lack of one.
    I've got one for Dad in the hope I'll never need to register it.
  11. Spamar

    Spamar Registered User

    Oct 5, 2013
    Hi, Lin you advised me on just this point. I did LPA at home, with neighbour to verify OH and another neighbour to act as witness. We all ( including some other halves) had coffee/ tea and OH ate nearly all the biscuits, choc digestives of course!
    It all went well.
    We both have EPA from way back. His was activated so that I could cope with some financial work that was beyond him, plus the fact he's never been interested! Fortunately his dau was also attorney, I passed it all over to her recently. Can't cope with OH and my health problems! Even though he's been in respite for 5 weeks and that will be permanent from next week.
    Good luck crag
  12. Crag

    Crag Registered User

    Jan 3, 2015
    Thanks for everybody's help. I wish all our problems with this disease were this easy to solve via such a forum.

    I had people in mind but it was struggling who could be witness and who the Certifcate Provider, and how to get it down on paper, as I think if I make a mistake it's an extra £55 to do again.
    Everything else on the form is done except for crossing through some empty boxes, and then we can get everybody in to complete all the signatures.

    And yes a coffee morning sounds a good idea, and I already know that dad will finish the biscuits off, and probably before anybody gets there:eek:
  13. cragmaid

    cragmaid Registered User

    Oct 18, 2010
    North East England
    I asked Mum's neighbours to sign as " friends and neighbours for the ( in this case) last twenty years..... no questions asked by the OPG.:)
  14. henfenywfach

    henfenywfach Registered User

    May 23, 2013
    Hi! Sound like youve had some good advice on here.

    The epa was replaced by the lpa in 2007. Its still valid before that and can be registered. The lpa we are told is more can do health and welfare or property and finances.. or even parts of it.

    The lpa has to certify that the person has understood and not under duress. .the epa needs to be registered as the person starts to lose capacity.

    It is possible to do it yourself...the forms are online. Its vital you make sure its 100% spot on or it ll be sent back and charged again...

    We were told there were exemptions to court costs if on certain benefits.

    I urge everyone to get s lpa rather than wait and not be able and have to go to court of protection.

    The hard work it ll take to get your loved one to accept an lpa is nothing to what you ll have to go through for the alternative. Emotionally and financially.

    Well done for raising the topic.
    Best wishes.

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Talking Point mobile app

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