• All threads and posts regarding Coronavirus COVID-19 can be found in our area specifically for Coronavirus COVID-19 discussion.

    You can directly access this area >here<.

Lasting Power of Attorney

Kezza44

Registered User
Aug 28, 2013
3
0
I have received the registered paperwork, all stamped etc for my mum who has Alzheimer's and Vascular Dementia. The letter accompanying this mentions certified copies. Can anyone advise whether I need to ask my Mum to sign and date copies now or is it when you actually want to 'activate' it and take on power of attorney when the time comes? I completed both sets of forms myself, but I am a little confused as to when to certify and what it is for? Thanks for any help.
 

Noorza

Registered User
Jun 8, 2012
6,542
0
I think and someone smarter than me will confirm or refute this, it's when you take the original to a solicitor, they copy it and certify that they've seen the original. They save you bringing or sending the original everywhere.

I am fully prepared to be corrected on that though.
 

kingmidas1962

Registered User
Jun 10, 2012
3,535
0
South Gloucs
I think that you need to get the certified copies signed now (by your mum as you describe) signifying your mums understanding of the LPA - when she is no longer able to manage her own affairs you will be able to activate it using the certified copies (as opposed to the original) to show that she knew (had mental capacity to understand) what the process involved at the time. If she is fully understanding what it means I think she can certify the copies herself. I don't know what the wording would be though - maybe there's something about it on the Office of the Public Guardian website.

By the time my dads LPA was processed he had already lost capacity so to activate it for his accounts I took it to his bank/building society and they took their own copies. I was told to never let the original out of my sight!

To sell mum and dads house I had to get a certified copy from a solicitor but it wasn't stupidly expensive - about £1 per page (11 pages I think)
 
Last edited:

psbaker

Registered User
Aug 28, 2013
2
0
Poole, Dorset
My experiance in adding to this post is that I have had LPA for both my mother in law and my brother.
As the last post stated the original LPA document is a valuable document that would be costly and time consuming to replace so when registering it with various bodies (bank, utilties, insurance co. etc.) it is much safer to sent a registered copy. |This can be done by any solicitor who will copy each page and then put their company stamp on each page and sign it.
When sending to anyone ensure to ask for its return although most companies, in my experience, are aware of this requirement.
Hope this helps.
 

nick72

Registered User
Aug 7, 2013
3
0
I have received the registered paperwork, all stamped etc for my mum who has Alzheimer's and Vascular Dementia. The letter accompanying this mentions certified copies. Can anyone advise whether I need to ask my Mum to sign and date copies now or is it when you actually want to 'activate' it and take on power of attorney when the time comes? I completed both sets of forms myself, but I am a little confused as to when to certify and what it is for? Thanks for any help.

Ask the solicitor.

I have enduring power of attorney (done a few yrs ago, the precursor to 'lasting' power of attorney i believe). That worked like so:

We all signed paperwork which the solicitor collated into the original power of attorney document. The solicitor keeps this.

A few years later, when we requested them, he sent us 'certified copies' -- which were photocopies of that original document, signed and stamped by the solicitor. These were the ones we used when registering with banks, etc.

(In fact, he sent us two batches of certified copies. My father filed the first lot away somewhere so safe we never found them ;-)
 

hollycat

Registered User
Nov 20, 2011
1,349
0
When mums LPA was returned from OPG officially registered, because mum has made no specific limitations of use i.e. no conditions of use, the financial LPA became effective immediately and the health one will become effective when mum lacks capacity.

SO

OH and I took the original straight to mums bank and allowed them to take a copy, thereby granting OH and I immediate access/control for mums bank accounts.

We then took the original to solicitor, asked for 6 certified copies and used them for gas, electric, council tax, house insurance etc etc.

Some companies have accepted a PDF version via email, whilst others have insisted on the certified copy. One company refused to accept the certified solicitor copy, so wrongly or rightly, we sent a solicitors letter along with the certifiied copy and it was then accepted. Total bill for 6 copies and solicitor letter plus phone calls and consultation etc etc £180.

In summary, OH and I are now in effect MY MUM i.e. anything she did before, we can now do for her.

Hope this rather lengthy reply helps
 

starryuk

Registered User
Nov 8, 2012
1,323
0
Another thing I have seen mentioned, is that you can go to the job centre to get copies certified free, but not sure if everybody will accept them. Please someone correct me if I am wrong here, though.
 

Noorza

Registered User
Jun 8, 2012
6,542
0
Another thing I have seen mentioned, is that you can go to the job centre to get copies certified free, but not sure if everybody will accept them. Please someone correct me if I am wrong here, though.

This one I do know as have just done it. The Job centre will copy the POA and pass it to the governmental bodies such a DWP so it can be used to cover it for pensions, attendance allowance anything the government pays.

I won't help for anything else such as gas, electricity or other bills etc. It just makes it easier to cover governmental pensions and DWP etc.
 

PeggySmith

Registered User
Apr 16, 2012
1,683
0
BANES
I think that you need to get the certified copies signed now (by your mum as you describe) signifying your mums understanding of the LPA - when she is no longer able to manage her own affairs you will be able to activate it using the certified copies (as opposed to the original) to show that she knew (had mental capacity to understand) what the process involved at the time. If she is fully understanding what it means I think she can certify the copies herself. I don't know what the wording would be though - maybe there's something about it on the Office of the Public Guardian website.
If you want your Dad to self certify, the wording is:
"I certify that this is a true and complete copy of the original Lasting Power of Attorney"

It has to be written on each page and signed and dated. If you do it now, then the copies can be stored along with the original until you need them.
 

Brucie

Registered User
Jan 31, 2004
12,413
0
near London
kezza44 said:
I have received the registered paperwork, all stamped etc for my mum who has Alzheimer's and Vascular Dementia. The letter accompanying this mentions certified copies. Can anyone advise whether I need to ask my Mum to sign and date copies now or is it when you actually want to 'activate' it and take on power of attorney when the time comes? I completed both sets of forms myself, but I am a little confused as to when to certify and what it is for?
I think you may have a couple of things mixed up here.

If you have received the registered paperwork, stamped etc, then I assume you have already sent the completed LPA documents to the Court of Protection. They have presumably accepted the forms and now the LPA is active. By 'activate' I assume you mean 'put it into operation', but I think the LPA is already active.

It used to be that you could ask for the CoP to send certified copies back with the original, to be used for banks etc, but that has now changed. Copies can be made under the donor's [person who is the subject of the LPA] signature, or a solicitor can be used.

I think it is advisable to have 2-3 copies made, in case the original is damaged or lost, and sometimes a power of attorney had to be posted away, and the original should not really be used in that way.

We are awaiting the results of sending a completed LPA to the CoP. I completed it, and, while it is something that needs to be done meticulously, it isn't rocket science. I know of someone who is facing a £2000-£3000 solicitor's bill for doing the same thing, which seems to me scandalous.

However, since we have yet to receive the registered LPA from CoP, time will tell....

I have no legal training, and I know there are some members who are so trained, but these are just my thoughts. I previously operated an Enduring Power of Attorney for my late wife, witnessed by a solicitor. The forms were a doddle in comparison, and it was active for nearly 10 years.
 

Pottingshed50

Registered User
Apr 8, 2012
514
0
Having worked in the Probate department, It was usual for the EPA or LPA to be photocopied and then for the solicitor who drew up the document in the first place to stamp each page and sign his or her name on each page thereby certifying that the document is a true copy of the original.

£2000 for dealing with the Court of Protection does seem excessive and I would query that with the Law Society.
 

Nebiroth

Registered User
Aug 20, 2006
3,510
0
I agree with Brucie, I am a little confused.

Do you mean you have sent the LPA to the Court of Protection/Office of the Public Guardian? LPA's are not registered until the attorney needs to use them. Up until then the LPA is just a document that sits waiting to be registered. If so you will eventually get a letter back saying the registration has taken place, that the power of attorney is now in force, and also a certificate that signifies your legal authority. It is this certificate you produce when you deal with banks, utility companies or anyone else - not the original LPA document. You can have certified copies of this certificate made, since the original is valuable, therefore, you use certified copies, espescially if you are required to send it away at any time; for example, a utility company might ask you to provide it by post - so you use a certified copy, which carries the same legal weight, just in case it gets lost in the post or whatever.

Certified copies of the document of authority can be issued by the Court, but you have to request and pay for them. IIRC you can ask for two for free. Solicitors can make them but you have to pay. Banks can do them and often for free. My bank helpfuly made multiple copies of my dad's death certificate for free, whereas the Registrar's Office would have charged.

Generally, you do not need copies of the original LPA document; as most people do these via a solicitor, it sits in their document vault until and unless you need to send it to be registered.

Long ago I my parents created the old EPA type for themselves. They just sat with the solicitor in the vault - when I needed to register it for my dad they released it to me so I could send it away to the COP. I never did register it, as sadly he passed away very shortly thereafter before I could even send it away.

I suppose you could have a certified copy of the LPA itself made, so that you could send a copy away for the registration process.
 
Last edited:

Brucie

Registered User
Jan 31, 2004
12,413
0
near London
An update

Brucie said:
However, since we have yet to receive the registered LPA from CoP, time will tell....

This morning the LPA that I had completed on behalf of someone who has vascular dementia arrived, having been duly registered.

The completion of the LPA documents required a fair amount of time, since I recognised the need to be meticulous, and to complete everything exactly as described within the document itself. I quadruple checked everything.

The CoP did return one form, requiring clarification. I made the necessary changes, obtained the attorneys' signatures for that, then returned the replacement form. Any changes need to be countersigned by all attorneys and written in amendments to existing forms are not permitted - complete replacement forms need to be provided.

The cost of the entire process: £65 to register the form, plus some postal costs - I always sent the documents requiring a signature at the CoP.