Lasting power of Attorney

[Ferrit44]

I could use some advice, We took out joint LPA when I first sensed my wife was in the early stages of Dementia but after the first consultation with our GP she went into total denial and even after 5 years she still refuses to accept her condition,
I consulted our GP for advice on how to enact the LPA but he told me there’s nothing he can do until he has seen my wife because she still has lucid moment’s his hands are tied,
Because my wife was the main dealer with our financial affairs and is the lead name on our account that to has made things difficult,
Her constant anxiety is waring me down and I’m at a loss at what to do going forward.

 

[Cat27]

I just sent copies of the LPA to the companies & they added me to everything. I didn’t consult the GP about it.

 

[Rosettastone57]

I could use some advice, We took out joint LPA when I first sensed my wife was in the early stages of Dementia but after the first consultation with our GP she went into total denial and even after 5 years she still refuses to accept her condition,
I consulted our GP for advice on how to enact the LPA but he told me there’s nothing he can do until he has seen my wife because she still has lucid moment’s his hands are tied,
Because my wife was the main dealer with our financial affairs and is the lead name on our account that to has made things difficult,
Her constant anxiety is waring me down and I’m at a loss at what to do going forward.

Are you saying that the LPA are already registered and ready to use? If so you don't need a GP 's say so ,just use them .

 

[canary]

Has it been registered? If not, send it in. Is there a clause in the POA saying that you can only use it once he has lost capacity? It isnt a usual clause, but if its there then you will have to find someone to test his capacity. If its not there (the usual type), then you can just go ahead and use it.

Are you waiting for him to agree to you using it? If so, then Im afraid that you will wait forever. He probably isnt in denial - its probably a very common, but little known symptom of dementia called anosognosia, which is where the part of the brain that deals with self awareness s damaged, so they lose the self awareness to realise that there is something wrong with them and insist that they dont have dementia. As its damage to the brain caused by the dementia, its never going to change.

 

[Lynmax]

You can use the financial LPA without any form of assessment of capacity, this can help organise financial affairs with the banks. But the welfare LPA can only be used when the person lacks capacity, it was only when mum was admitted to hospital following a fall that a social worker carried out an assessment.

 

[MartinWL]

@Ferrit44 the advice from @Lynmax is correct. You have to register the LPA with the Office of the Public Guardian first. When this is completed you have to get certified copies made. Usually a solicitor can do this but it is quite expensive. Don't let the original out of your hands. Once you have enough copies you have to send them to the banks, building societies etc and all are different so it is quite a task. Most demand paper letters or forms by post. Eventually you'll have the ability to manage the accounts. It all takes a long time so start as soon as you can! If you get stuck do ask here as I have been going through this very tedious process and am a few weeks ahead!

 

[Gorgeous Gail]

Hi @Ferrit44 sorry to hear of you troubles. I have 40 years banking experience and have never heard of a 'lead person' on a joint bank account. If the account is in joint names, then you are both jointly and severallly liable so unless you are closing the account, removing a person, or you have set it up as both to sign it only needs one signature to work the account. As far as I am aware the only difference is on a credit card when it is in one person's name but a spouse can have a card on it too. As advised above, I would take the financial LPAs to any institutions where you have accounts and get them registered asap. I'm new to LPAs myself and the ones I have for my OH haven't come back yet but I do believe that the health one can only be used when the person is not in a position to make their own decisions re their health anymore.

 

[nitram]

OP did not say joint account, wife could have sole account with OP as third party mandate.

Heath and welfare LPAs cannot be used until the donor has been assessed as incapable of making the relevant decision.
A clause can be added to a financial LPA with this requirement.

 

[Lynmax]

My advice would be to contact the department at a bank that deals with Power of Attorney before making an appointment at the bank. When we needed to help mum with her finances, it was very helpful to know exactly what paperwork and proof of identity was necessary - each bank was different! All three attorneys were able to go for the appointment which saved a lot of time but it still took us over an hour to sort everything out and sign papers etc.

 

[Ferrit44]

Are you saying that the LPA are already registered and ready to use? If so you don't need a GP 's say so ,just use them .

Hi, it’s the health and well-being this is the real problem and it’s clear my options are limited unless I can persuade my wife to see our doctor and despite her condition worsening just to mention it causes her to flip,
The LPA has been active for 5 years, the financial aspects I can handle

 

[Ferrit44]

Hi @Ferrit44 sorry to hear of you troubles. I have 40 years banking experience and have never heard of a 'lead person' on a joint bank account. If the account is in joint names, then you are both jointly and severallly liable so unless you are closing the account, removing a person, or you have set it up as both to sign it only needs one signature to work the account. As far as I am aware the only difference is on a credit card when it is in one person's name but a spouse can have a card on it too. As advised above, I would take the financial LPAs to any institutions where you have accounts and get them registered asap. I'm new to LPAs myself and the ones I have for my OH haven't come back yet but I do believe that the health one can only be used when the person is not in a position to make their own decisions re their health anymore.

Hi, your final conclusion is correct, financially I will manage, I was hoping someone would tell me the doctor was mistaken.

 

[Pusskins]

@Ferrit44 I'm in NZ, but from what you say, it would appear that in order to have your POA enacted, your wife has to be assessed by a doctor. This is the procedure here and earlier this year during a hospital stay, MH was assessed by a specialist and he was judged as to be lacking capacity. If your wife still has lucid moments, it might be a waiting game, unfortunately.

 

[canary]

I'm in NZ, but from what you say, it would appear that in order to have your POA enacted, your wife has to be assessed by a doctor.

Its not true here in UK, at least, not for finances. If the doctor needs a decision about H&W and feels that some does not have the capacity to make that decision then they will ask about POA, but there is no formal assessment as such before a POA is enacted.

@Ferrit44 - Im slightly confused about what you want to be able to do with the POA. I had assumed that you wanted to sort out your finances because you mentioned problems with your account, but you are now saying that its the H&W that is the problem.

 

[Rosettastone57]

Hi, it’s the health and well-being this is the real problem and it’s clear my options are limited unless I can persuade my wife to see our doctor and despite her condition worsening just to mention it causes her to flip,
The LPA has been active for 5 years, the financial aspects I can handle

So what do you want to do with the health and welfare POA?

 

[UncleZen]

How can I tell if my LPA(s) are registered with the OPA? I took out both types of LPA when my wife was first diagnosed, they've been sitting in the safe ever since. There will be a time when I have to use them and I want to ensure that all is in order and ready to go.

 

[nitram]

You can check at
https://www.gov.uk/find-someones-attorney-deputy-or-guardian .

The returned original will be either stamped or perforated depending when registered.

 

[nita]

You should be able to talk to the GP even without an LPA in place. I did in my mother's case. If this doctor is insisting he can't talk to you, are there other doctors at the surgery? Even before my mother had dementia, I could talk to the GP about her health conditions. You need to get it recorded on the surgery's database that you can act on her behalf.

You could take her along to the doctor on the pretext that it is for a check up. If you have notes of her symptoms you can pass these to the doctor or get them to him/her beforehand. Where did your wife get her diagnosis? Has she been seen by a clinic/hospital doctor? Contact them - they may do home visits. Get some help for her and yourself.

 

[MartinWL]

How can I tell if my LPA(s) are registered with the OPA? I took out both types of LPA when my wife was first diagnosed, they've been sitting in the safe ever since. There will be a time when I have to use them and I want to ensure that all is in order and ready to go.

If you have not registered them and nobody else has, you need to register them as soon as you can. It takes ages, and you never know, alas, when things may get worse, so I would advise you to be prepared.

 

[imthedaughter]

Hi, your final conclusion is correct, financially I will manage, I was hoping someone would tell me the doctor was mistaken.

Hmm I am confused but here's how we did it: Dad was assessed for capacity and surprisingly, had it, so the Dr put 'does want resus' on his records (quite opposite to what I would have advised seeing as Dad was always adamant that if he 'ever got like that you should kill me'). However I had previously written a letter dad had signed to say I could be consulted about his health so I was able to do some things.

Once I got the H&W LPA I took it to the surgery and they copied it to file - and promptly lost it, so when I needed to access his medical records they refused. I got annoyed and insisted I email them the LPA digital copy (I live seven hours away!) and that they should accept it. There was no examination, on the last examination Dad had capacity, but the Dr was aware it was likely to be fluctuating. He's now fully diagnosed.

 

[MartinWL]

Hmm I am confused but here's how we did it: Dad was assessed for capacity and surprisingly, had it, so the Dr put 'does want resus' on his records (quite opposite to what I would have advised seeing as Dad was always adamant that if he 'ever got like that you should kill me'). However I had previously written a letter dad had signed to say I could be consulted about his health so I was able to do some things.

Once I got the H&W LPA I took it to the surgery and they copied it to file - and promptly lost it, so when I needed to access his medical records they refused. I got annoyed and insisted I email them the LPA digital copy (I live seven hours away!) and that they should accept it. There was no examination, on the last examination Dad had capacity, but the Dr was aware it was likely to be fluctuating. He's now fully diagnosed.

Capacity related to specific decisions so there isn't a blanket assessment to be made. Presumably your GP thought he had capacity for something important but as you point out things fluctate so the GPs advice could be out of date. Dementia only gets worse. If you were in a position where resuscitation was being considered it would be obvious that he did not have capacity then so you would be able to make decisions. It would be as well to make sure you can easily produce the POA should the need ever arise.