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LA funding... would they move her?

Argon

Registered User
Mar 8, 2015
16
Another query on behalf of my friends family. After a fall in 2013, the grandmother has been in a care home local to one of her daughters. She owns her home which is inhabited by her granddaughter and should be classed as disregarded due to the granddaughter being disabled. Her savings have dropped below the threshold now and they are trying to sort the LA funding the care. The concern is is there any likelihood of them trying to move her to a different care home. She is settled there and happy. The place is I believe around 650 a week and actually very cheap compared to others looked at. Any clues?
 

DazeInOurLives

Registered User
Dec 10, 2009
107
East Midlands,UK
twitter.com
Another query on behalf of my friends family. After a fall in 2013, the grandmother has been in a care home local to one of her daughters. She owns her home which is inhabited by her granddaughter and should be classed as disregarded due to the granddaughter being disabled. Her savings have dropped below the threshold now and they are trying to sort the LA funding the care. The concern is is there any likelihood of them trying to move her to a different care home. She is settled there and happy. The place is I believe around 650 a week and actually very cheap compared to others looked at. Any clues?
The local authority is unlikely to pay that amount per week, so there are two options:

One, not-out-of-the-question option is that her care home may well agree to accept the 'expected to pay' rate, which is the maximum weekly amount that the LA will provide (the home will very likely have many other residents on that rate).

OR the care home and LA will say that the family or another 3rd party tops up the difference each week. The regulations are changing about this (so that that resident can pay the top up themselves), but not until April 2016. Maybe, if there is a large family, they could share the top-up costs for that maximum 12 months before she would be allowed to pay herself, if she could. But it could be as much as £5k a year or more, so it's not a trivial expense.

If neither of these is an option then the LA will supply the family with a list of other care homes that cost only their 'expected to pay' rate. If they can demonstrate that none can offer the care that she needs and currently receives, there may be some room to negotiate, but it is a very long shot.

Good luck

Daze

Another, slightly grisly tip (I am so sorry) is that she pay for her funeral now so that the LA will require her to contribute less of her income/capital towards her care fees.
 
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Argon

Registered User
Mar 8, 2015
16
I'm not sure if this is relevant but I think she pays about 200 a week of it from pension so the remaining would be 400 - 450 after that. It's very difficult as that was already the cheapest within a reasonable distance and these things are so confusing!

Plus it seems you can never get a straight answer from social, LA etc which is so unhelpful. If they sold the property and the granddaughter left (she would not want grandmother moved either) what would then happen when the house money ran out or care cap thingy wad reached.. Would she end up in the same position where they could move her?

I know the current care home loves her there too as she is such a character and quite independent. Really don't want her moving off where no one can visit etc
 
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DazeInOurLives

Registered User
Dec 10, 2009
107
East Midlands,UK
twitter.com
I'm not sure if this is relevant but I think she pays about 200 a week of it from pension so the remaining would be 400 - 450 after that. It's very difficult as that was already the cheapest within a reasonable distance and these things are so confusing!

Plus it seems you can never get a straight answer from social, LA etc which is so unhelpful. If they sold the property and the granddaughter left (she would not want grandmother moved either) what would then happen when the house money ran out or care cap thingy wad reached.. Would she end up in the same position where they could move her?
It sounds that she may be safe if she contributes £200 a week already. However, the home should be able to give them a straight answer about whether they would accept the expected to pay rate (they will also know exactly what the ExpTP rate is for the LA too).

Perhaps any need for selling or releasing equity on the property could be delayed until April 2016 when the cap comes in, although don't be fooled by the cap figure - it is certainly not just a cap of £72K as food, lodgings and top-ups will need to be paid on top of that.

Current rules:
http://www.ageuk.org.uk/Documents/EN-GB/Factsheets/FS10_Paying_for_permanent_residential_care_fcs.pdf?epslanguage=en-GB?dtrk=true

From April 2016:
http://www.independentage.org/factsheets/the-care-act/

Good luck
 

Argon

Registered User
Mar 8, 2015
16
Thanks so much... Been reading so many things recently. Think they are waiting for an answer on disregard etc as she was going into a deferred payment on the house until the granddaughter stumbled across the crag stuff finding it shouldn't have been included in the first place.
 

Pete R

Registered User
Jul 26, 2014
2,038
Staffs
Argon,

Sorry to put a dampener on this but if the lady is to be funded by the LA and they for example have a limit of £500 then the pension of £200 would be used to offset some of that so in fact the LA would only pay £300.

I hope it all works out.:)
 

DazeInOurLives

Registered User
Dec 10, 2009
107
East Midlands,UK
twitter.com
Argon,

Sorry to put a dampener on this but if the lady is to be funded by the LA and they for example have a limit of £500 then the pension of £200 would be used to offset some of that so in fact the LA would only pay £300.

I hope it all works out.:)
Yes, I wondered as I wrote that. Sorry.

But many care homes do agree to drop down to the ExpTP rate, particularly if the resident fits in well in the home and doesn't take up a lot of staff time. Another option to keep the cost down might be to accept a shared room if the place offers them. That can actually be a really great solution for some people on a social level as well as a financial one.
 

Argon

Registered User
Mar 8, 2015
16
So probably just a case of waiting and seeing what they say? They were supposed to be setting up a deferred payment but are waiting to hear back on the disregard thing now. One of the daughters apparently not long got a letter saying the care home fees are now 560 in line with a contractual agreement with council and that the council will be in contact. This is dated prior to disregard discussion so no idea whats going on there. Also if the council claimed this place was too costly when it's the cheapest where on earth would she be expected to go?
 

realist1234

Registered User
Oct 30, 2014
108
This is the result of nearly all residential and nursing homes now being privately owned, and as such the owners can charge whatever fees they want. I know of an owner of a nursing home which was running for over 20 years who has decided to change it to a residential home, so that all of the current residents have to leave and find another nursing home - a disgrace. The owner had said he hadnt made a profit in 2 years, so he clearly believes by getting rid of nursing staff etc, his costs will be substantially less. The local authority has no power whatsoever to prevent it. Forget about the residents though, some of whom have lived there for 10 years or more!

You mentioned a 'deferred payments scheme'. I assume this relates to the property. I understand there is provision in the Crag guidance that allows for the 'top-up' fees element of the home costs to be reclaimed once the property is sold. I think it means a 3rd party would still have to pay it in the meantime, but Im not 100% sure. Perhaps one of the experienced 'moderators' could advise.




So probably just a case of waiting and seeing what they say? They were supposed to be setting up a deferred payment but are waiting to hear back on the disregard thing now. One of the daughters apparently not long got a letter saying the care home fees are now 560 in line with a contractual agreement with council and that the council will be in contact. This is dated prior to disregard discussion so no idea whats going on there. Also if the council claimed this place was too costly when it's the cheapest where on earth would she be expected to go?