Jointly owned home.

[Izabella]

Attendance Allowance/DLA and PIp are all payable for the first 28 days after an admission to a care home that is fully funded or partly funded by LA. Carers allowance will pay for a further 4 weeks called the run on period.

Please also be aware that while the LA will disregard the home as an asset/capital when a partner enters residential/nursing home, If the partner then wants to move and sells the home/property the capital can be considered as an asset at that time. However you can get permission from social services to sell which will mean the new property would also be disregarded.

 

[nitram]

is holding a home as Tenants In Common viewed any differently to Joint home owners when it comes to LA assessment.

No difference regarding initial LA assessment.

A difference is when one of the joint owners dies.

With joint tenancy the property passes to the survivor outside of any will, if the owner not in care dies first the property passes to the one in care and becomes part of their assets and available to fund care.

With tenants in common the person not in care can make a will leaving their share of the property to other than the person in care.

 

[Wildflowerlady]

No difference regarding initial LA assessment.

A difference is when one of the joint owners dies.

With joint tenancy the property passes to the survivor outside of any will, if the owner not in care dies first the property passes to the one in care and becomes part of their assets and available to fund care.

With tenants in common the person not in care can make a will leaving their share of the property to other than the person in care.

Hi @nitram yes we were aware of that and partner has left his share of the property to me. We are often wondering if we should move from our home of 20 odd years but that then could throw in an issue of partners assets although a bungalow may need lots of work doing if not been updated. Our home we are currently in could be adapted to give him a bedroom downstairs and wet room so we may go that route if necessary.

 

[Kapow]

what a mess @Kapow ... so unhelpful
let the LA and the care home know what is happening, in writing eg email if you can .... it's clear that you are doing your best to comply with arranging payments, and you cannot make the companies/institutions do something different than they tell you .... the LA should have come across this before, same for the care home (their reaction is unkind, but may be a signal of how they will deal with financial issues)

just a thought
will the banks agree to make the joint accounts into individual accounts for your husband ... so. I assume, the pensions can continue to be paid into that account
and you set up separate accounts for yourself

and do not pay anything yourself especially if that leaves you out of pocket right now, you have a right to your own financial 'security' as the care fees are your husband's .... not easy for you, I appreciate, but I worry about setting a precedent if you pay from your finances

I went down to the bank yesterday to set up a seperate account in which to put my husbands savings and his state pension plus half his private pension.The bank set up the account but say they cannot set up the transfer of the pensions bit because they are pensions,they aren't allowed to do that but if i contacted both myself having POA,and give the pensions people the new account details,get it in writing,go back to the bank and they will then do it.This was verified as being true by the lady at the DWP who said banks aren't allowed to do that.So....the DWP say they have no record of my sending the POA to them,despite me quoting the recorded delivery number and date,January this year,and say they don't dispite that I sent it,but they haven't got it..so i have to send another full copy to them on Monday.The second private pension say that they cannot take any bank details over the phone ever,are going to send out a form to me,fill it in,send it back,but by the time they get it,process it,it's going to be December....so I can't set up a seperate account as i thought because there is another months care fees to come out on the 27th October....If I was a heavy drinker I'd get smashed tonight.

 

[canary]

The bank cannot automatically transfer pensions into another account, but they can transfer the same amount of money if you go in in person and ask them (or you can do it by bank transfer if you have online banking). So, when the pensions go into the old bank account, go to the bank and ask them to transfer the amount of money equal to his state pension plus half his private pension. and put it into his new account.

 

[I thank you for the years]

You could set up a standing order for the relevant amount so that it automatically moved from one account to another on the same date each month (specified by yoursel).

 

[Maggiejigs]

The bank cannot automatically transfer pensions into another account, but they can transfer the same amount of money if you go in in person and ask them (or you can do it by bank transfer if you have online banking). So, when the pensions go into the old bank account, go to the bank and ask them to transfer the amount of money equal to his state pension plus half his private pension. and put it into his new account.

This is what I did until DWP started paying my husband’s State Pension and Attendance Allowance into bank account I opened in his name - took a couple of months but we are there now ?

 

[canary]

Im glad its been sorted out now @Maggiejigs

 

[MarieD]

Hi
When my father went into care the question of top up fees arose I called around many care homes to find out their “top up fee” All were different and some even said they’d be open to offers !
After realising I could be paying top up fees for many years plus this amount could go up each tax year I refused to pay it ( no one else in the family could afford to pay )
The County council had no option but to pay the so called top up fee themselves ( though I highly doubt it was the same amount the care home offered to me I would think it was much lower )
Luckily my father qualified for nhs funding in the end .
I find it absolutely shocking that people are using their own pension money to pay for a loved ones top up fee especially if in care due to dementia and not out of choice. This system is crazy !

I was also told by my financial advisor any personal pensions are not included in the persons assets when working out how much money they have, surely it makes more sense that families are able to use their loved ones pension money to pay top up fees for their care if they have no other option ?

I find the whole system a complete mess and on the whole totally unfair
My only advice would be to anyone paying top up fees to keep a running total and that amount should be paid back out of the your loved ones assets once they pass.

 

[Knitandpurl]

I agree entirely, the whole system is wrong and confusing and different councils seem to have different interpretations of the rules. BUT ALL my Mums pensions are included in her income. They take every penny plus an amount for every £100 she has over the lower savings amount (think this is currently about £11000), they then deduct about £25.00 a week which she is allowed to keep for personal expenses. My sister currently pays her top up fees from her pension. The agreement between my sister and I is that Mum will pay her back from her assets when she dies, but in March she will owe my sister more than she has left so after that as I have just got my pension this month we have agreed to split her top up fees between us. But my Mum’s money will still continue to fall so my sister won’t get all her money back and neither of us will get back what we pay after March. Oh forgot to say, my Mum’s contributions towards her fees are deducted from the amount the Council contributes!!!!!

 

[canary]

I was also told by my financial advisor any personal pensions are not included in the persons assets when working out how much money they have,

Im afraid this is not correct. The way it is worked out is as @Knitandpurl has described, although spouses can claim half of any private pension.

 

[MarieD]

Im afraid this is not correct. The way it is worked out is as @Knitandpurl has described, although spouses can claim half of any private pension.

I’m just going by what my dads finance guy told me I also checked with the finance team who were assessing my dads finances and they said the same. Maybe it’s different with spouses or councils ?

 

[MarieD]

I agree entirely, the whole system is wrong and confusing and different councils seem to have different interpretations of the rules. BUT ALL my Mums pensions are included in her income. They take every penny plus an amount for every £100 she has over the lower savings amount (think this is currently about £11000), they then deduct about £25.00 a week which she is allowed to keep for personal expenses. My sister currently pays her top up fees from her pension. The agreement between my sister and I is that Mum will pay her back from her assets when she dies, but in March she will owe my sister more than she has left so after that as I have just got my pension this month we have agreed to split her top up fees between us. But my Mum’s money will still continue to fall so my sister won’t get all her money back and neither of us will get back what we pay after March. Oh forgot to say, my Mum’s contributions towards her fees are deducted from the amount the Council contributes!!!!!

Shocking isn’t it ! I find it all so upsetting especially as Dementia is an illness and the person has to be cared for as their condition gets worse a lot of the time .

 

[canary]

Shocking isn’t it ! I find it all so upsetting especially as Dementia is an illness and the person has to be cared for as their condition gets worse a lot of the time .

I quite agree, but unfortunately the government classify the care needed as social care, not medical care and I dont see that changing any time yet.

 

[canary]

I’m just going by what my dads finance guy told me I also checked with the finance team who were assessing my dads finances and they said the same. Maybe it’s different with spouses or councils ?

Are you in Scotland or N Ireland, because Im not sure what the rules are there?

 

[Shedrech]

hi @MarieD
this may help ... the assessments are the same acros LAs

Paying for dementia care in England

Dementia care isn't free, and you may need to pay for some of the care you or someone you know needs. We help you understand the different ways to pay for care, and the amount you might be expected to pay.

www.alzheimers.org.uk

I wonder whether the confusion is that assets are savings, property etc, and then income ie state pension, private pension, Attendance allowance etc is looked at seperately ... so a person's income and assets are both assessed

Legal and financial

This section outlines the various financial and legal issues that someone with dementia and their carer may want to consider and looks at sources of help and support.

www.alzheimers.org.uk

 

[nitram]

I’m just going by what my dads finance guy told me I also checked with the finance team who were assessing my dads finances and they said the same. Maybe it’s different with spouses or councils ?

Assuming England, other UK countries may vary.

20) Where a person is in a care home and has a spouse or civil partner who is not living in the same care home and is paying half of the value of their occupational pension, personal pension or retirement annuity to their spouse or civil partner, the local authority must disregard this payment.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ce/care-and-support-statutory-guidance#AnnexC .

 

[MarieD]

I must of got it wrong then ? Sorry if I’ve mislead anyone . My dad qualified for CHC so it never really went any further with the finance team.