Joint power of attorney with sister

donated cloth

New member
Jan 7, 2019
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Both my younger sister and I have JOINT power of attorney, Set up about 7 years ago (that's another story). For the past few years I have been cleaner, cook, carer etc for mum who is in her 80s. I've taken her to every medical appointment and run her household (shopping, newspaper bills, window cleaner, gardner and similar).

When mum was diagnosed with Alzheimer's, around the same time my sister took mum to the bank and put her name on mums account. Shortly after, she cancelled bank statements. Several times, mum asked the bank to reinstate them but each time they were cancelled by my sister. Despite asking numerous times and also speaking to social services, neither mum or i have never seen a single statement.

Recently, mum had a bad fall and as a result is now permanently in a care home. As mum's home (which she owned) is now looking likely to be sold or rented, i have asked my sister (numerous times), to put my name on mums account also, as there will be large sums of money involved should the house be sold or rented, and each time, she either refuses or take around the subject.

The bank wont do anything without the original copy of the LPA which my sister has!!

I have also found out that she has had mum's mail redirected to her address, organised gardeners, switched mum's energy providers etc... none of which I knew about.

I am worried what else she has done behind my back and if i ask, she says that I can see all receipts/invoices???

We both have JOINT power of attorney, so where do I go from here?
 
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Midow

Registered User
Jun 13, 2017
38
0
Wales
The bank already has a copy of the POA with you named as joint attorney, if your sister has registered it with them. It should simply now be a matter of you making an appointment and going in with your ID. There's no reason why they'd need to see the original again.
 

Duggies-girl

Registered User
Sep 6, 2017
3,620
0
I am not sure what you mean by your sister having put her name on your mum's account. Do you mean as a holder of POA or as a joint account holder.

If your sister is with holding information such as statements then you need to get it sorted out very quickly. You need to go to the bank and do not allow them to fob you off. Your mum has a right to her statements and as a joint POA so do you.

Your sister sounds like a bully to me and you need to assert yourself or she will walk all over you.
 

Beate

Registered User
May 21, 2014
12,179
0
London
I have to ask - is the attorneyship joint ot joint and several? Because if it is truly joint, your sister wouldn't have been able to do any of this without your signature. Joint and several means either of you can act independently and legally do all the things you list, as long as they are in the donor's best interest.
 

Rosettastone57

Registered User
Oct 27, 2016
1,839
0
I have to ask - is the attorneyship joint ot joint and several? Because if it is truly joint, your sister wouldn't have been able to do any of this without your signature. Joint and several means either of you can act independently and legally do all the things you list, as long as they are in the donor's best interest.
Just what I was about to ask is this power of attorney joint or jointly and severally??
 

MaNaAk

Registered User
Jun 19, 2016
11,746
0
Essex
Both my younger sister and I have JOINT power of attorney, Set up about 7 years ago (that's another story). For the past few years I have been cleaner, cook, carer etc for mum who is in her 80s. I've taken her to every medical appointment and run her household (shopping, newspaper bills, window cleaner, gardner and similar).

When mum was diagnosed with Alzheimer's, around the same time my sister took mum to the bank and put her name on mums account. Shortly after, she cancelled bank statements. Several times, mum asked the bank to reinstate them but each time they were cancelled by my sister. Despite asking numerous times and also speaking to social services, neither mum or i have never seen a single statement.

Recently, mum had a bad fall and as a result is now permanently in a care home. As mum's home (which she owned) is now looking likely to be sold or rented, i have asked my sister (numerous times), to put my name on mums account also, as there will be large sums of money involved should the house be sold or rented, and each time, she either refuses or take around the subject.

The bank wont do anything without the original copy of the LPA which my sister has!!

I have also found out that she has had mum's mail redirected to her address, organised gardeners, switched mum's energy providers etc... none of which I knew about.

I am worried what else she has done behind my back and if i ask, she says that I can see all receipts/invoices???

We both have JOINT power of attorney, so where do I go from here?

If you read my threads you'll know you have my full sympathy! That said you should go down to the bank and explain that you have joint POA and bring your passport and if possible POA.

MaNaAk
 

donated cloth

New member
Jan 7, 2019
6
0
I am not sure what you mean by your sister having put her name on your mum's account. Do you mean as a holder of POA or as a joint account holder.

If your sister is with holding information such as statements then you need to get it sorted out very quickly. You need to go to the bank and do not allow them to fob you off. Your mum has a right to her statements and as a joint POA so do you.

Your sister sounds like a bully to me and you need to assert yourself or she will walk all over you.


Thank you for your reply. She put her name on mums account just prior to the LPA being set up by taking mum with her. Mum agreed at the time because my sister bullied her into it. Mum was upset when she realised the implications of what she had done. I dont think that since that time the LPA has been registered with the bank. Although I could check. This has left me wondering if it should have been? I'm so stressed about it all. I never thought that it would be like this. I'm so glad that I have the support of this forum as I feel I have nobody to turn to.
 

donated cloth

New member
Jan 7, 2019
6
0
The bank already has a copy of the POA with you named as joint attorney, if your sister has registered it with them. It should simply now be a matter of you making an appointment and going in with your ID. There's no reason why they'd need to see the original again.
 

Beate

Registered User
May 21, 2014
12,179
0
London
If it's jointly then your sister shouldn't be able to do anything without your written permission. If it's registered with the bank then they are at fault for not seeing this. If it's not, why not? Of course it should have been registered with them, neither you nor your sister have bank authority without it. Your sister cannot just put her name onto her mother's account, there are procedures to follow as an attorney, and the money should still be your mother's.
 

fortune

Registered User
Sep 12, 2014
146
0
There are so many red flags in this situation! The attorney has a legal duty to ensure the persons money is only spent in their best interests. I fear you must take the bull by the horns and muscle your way into the bank. Make an appointment with the manager and take a list of questions that have to be answered. Don't let them rush you or fob you off. If, as it seems, the bank have allowed a joint attorney to act alone then they are at fault and they are likely to be defensive. (Btw my mother's bank would not allow my name to be 'put' on her account. I had to open a new account, in my name, solely to be used for mum's finances and operated by me as her attorney. I think your sister's explanation is perhaps not accurate). Be polite but firm and keep going back to your list until you are satisfied with the answers you are given. Once you have a full understanding of the situation you will need to tackle your sister, who will possibly react badly. But ask yourself this: what is the benefit to your mother of your sister's involvement? Your mother is vulnerable and your job is to protect her interests. The Office of the Public Guardian can be very helpful with specific advice (eg the bank refusing you access) but you will still need to make your own decision about what to do. You owe it to your mother to get this sorted out. She will likely need every penny she has to pay for good quality care. Good luck.
 

Moggymad

Registered User
May 12, 2017
1,314
0
Some years ago my younger sister did similar to yours & went into the building society with mum & had her name added so that they had a joint account without my knowledge although I was told by her afterwards. Statements stopped arriving which I queried not knowing if mum was throwing them away. Turned out because my sister chose to do online banking that the statement facility was turned off. It never was reinstated. Neither of us have LPA. Like you I did all the practical hard work & she just pressed a few buttons & paid bills! There wasn't any intention to do anything untoward on her part but it did annoy me that it was done behind my back.
If your mum is financially assessed they will want to see bank statements although it sounds like your mum will be self funding if she has a property to sell. I hope it all gets sorted out amicably & that nothing untoward has taken place.
 

Bod

Registered User
Aug 30, 2013
1,958
0
Thank you for your reply. She put her name on mums account just prior to the LPA being set up by taking mum with her. Mum agreed at the time because my sister bullied her into it. Mum was upset when she realised the implications of what she had done. I dont think that since that time the LPA has been registered with the bank. Although I could check. This has left me wondering if it should have been? I'm so stressed about it all. I never thought that it would be like this. I'm so glad that I have the support of this forum as I feel I have nobody to turn to.

"She put her name on mum's account just prior to the LPA......."
Your sister has a joint account with your mum. Nothing to do with the LPA.
If the LPA has not been registered with the Bank, then they will not talk to you. This explains the banks requirement to see the original LPA document.
Should mum need to go into care, with any form of Local Authority funding, there will be a financial assessment done, which your sister will have to disclose all of mothers finances. (and explain any deficiencies.)

Bod
 

love.dad.but..

Registered User
Jan 16, 2014
4,962
0
Kent
If your sister had her name put on the account before LPA could it be that it was as a third party mandate requested by your mum ...no new ac...rather than a joint account which presumably would have necessitated a new account?

I would be inclined to write to the bank branch Manager. I had joint and several with my sister but would have thought with joint the bank would require both of you to be registered and if she has dementia and is in need of care home them mental capacity can be questioned and the bank should freeze the ac until copy of lpa is given. Your sister will be required to provide copy of the lpa for a house sale and again with joint I would have thought the solicitor handling the sale would require joint attorneys both to instruct...sign etc.

Have you tried asking the OPG for a copy of the lpa explaining again your sister's blocking of you?
 

donated cloth

New member
Jan 7, 2019
6
0
I have to ask - is the attorneyship joint ot joint and several? Because if it is truly joint, your sister wouldn't have been able to do any of this without your signature. Joint and several means either of you can act independently and legally do all the things you list, as long as they are in the donor's best interest.
If your sister had her name put on the account before LPA could it be that it was as a third party mandate requested by your mum ...no new ac...rather than a joint account which presumably would have necessitated a new account?

I would be inclined to write to the bank branch Manager. I had joint and several with my sister but would have thought with joint the bank would require both of you to be registered and if she has dementia and is in need of care home them mental capacity can be questioned and the bank should freeze the ac until copy of lpa is given. Your sister will be required to provide copy of the lpa for a house sale and again with joint I would have thought the solicitor handling the sale would require joint attorneys both to instruct...sign etc.

Have you tried asking the OPG for a copy of the lpa explaining again your sister's blocking of you?
Yes I have done that. There wasn't a new account opened. Just my sister added to the account. Spoke to the bank today too. No LPA has ever been registered with them and also they haven't been informed that mum has lost capacity!!
 

Duggies-girl

Registered User
Sep 6, 2017
3,620
0
Yes I have done that. There wasn't a new account opened. Just my sister added to the account. Spoke to the bank today too. No LPA has ever been registered with them and also they haven't been informed that mum has lost capacity!!

So they are joint account holders now, this means that if your mum dies the account will belong to your sister. This is not the way POA works, your sister is not acting in your mums best interests and you appear to have been shut out.

I think your sister has a lot of explaining to do and you have to toughen up and put her right. Why has the LPA not been registered and why is the account joint and why have the statements been stopped.

What did the bank say they will do about it.
 

witts1973

Registered User
Jun 20, 2018
731
0
Leamington Spa
As love.Dad says they should freeze the account if it is brought to their knowledge that one of the joint account holders has lost capacity,you should make an appointment and register your LPA it doesn't take long to do and is a simple process.,it took a week until I had an attorney bank card and internet banking to look after mums affairs
 

Beate

Registered User
May 21, 2014
12,179
0
London
How can the OP register it without being in possession of the LPA document?

Once the account is frozen, the sister will have to react and register it herself, and then the bank will see that there are two attorneys. I am not sure whether they can do anything about her having added her name to the account though as she could argue that that was done with their Mum's consent ages ago.

It's quite a complicated scenario because on the one hand a joint attorneyship requires both signatures, but on the other hand, if the sister's name remains on the account, legally it's hers just as much as it is her mother's. She's really played a blinder, hasn't she? You might need professional advice here.
 
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