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joint care with sister not working out

JamesMcyntyre

Registered User
Nov 20, 2021
14
0
My Mum was diagnosed with demntia 4 years ago, I was working overseas at the time & I agreed with my sisters request that she bought a house with my mum and that she would live with my mum to look after her. It took them some 3 years to find a house as my sister wouldn't compromise on the location - compromise has never been in her nature.

I came back a year ago to help out, with the house rennovation but things have not been good and little has been achieved, the situation is on a knife edge really.

Looking back I see my mum having started with dementia in her 50's some 20 years ago. I now see the early signs in my sister too so it is like living with two people with dementia. My sister hasn't been functioning for the best part of the last year and is extremely difficult to deal with. Totaly unrealistic in anything she says and the truth doesn't seem to matter.

While I have been away she has been accustomed to open access to my mums finances. She bought the house with a substanatial amount of my mums savings and contributed 10% herself. She continues to hoard all documents, claims to keep records of expenditure but won't share them.

My sister uses mums money for everything, bills, food, council tax, house expenses, petrol to go to work basically she doesn't spend a single penny of her own money. She doesn't even buy her own shampoo.

This has clearly been going on for some time, the agreement was she bought a house and looked after mum but her main focus has been on finding a live in carer with seemingly her continuing to live for free.

My sister will just cash in mums savings and gets mum to sign the docs when she runs out of cash, will never consult me and just casually mention it like that makes it ok. We talked about setting up power of attorney and I did all the paperwork but my sister won't agree to it unless it is entirely in her name not me included for both medical and financial

I wouldn't have too much of a problem with this setup as it would allow me to continue living my life which is what I know my mum would have wanted. The house location is exactly where and what my sister wanted - I have no connection here. But my sister is truly a horrible human being.

So my questions are surely there must be some kind of laws to stop this from happening? We are just two siblings. Where should I be looking.

I can't trust my sister anymore - ask the same question each week and get a different answer.

I also have an issue with my car, when I went overseas I left my car on my mums drive. My mum already had dementia at the time so insisted I left the V5 ownership document in case the police turned up. The fact we have the same surname didn't matter due to the dementia.

While I was away my sister took the V5 from my mother switched the car into her name & now claims ownership of my car and has been driving it for the last few years. It was a new car at the time only 20k miles on the clock & I purchased it from new. I still keep the original purchase documents. She won't even pay the fuel for this car.

My sister essentially claims ownership of everything, even the whole house. She even says I should move out but 90% is my mums house as I think she sees me as a hinderence stopping her from doing as she pleases. I don't want to stay here but I want to find a long term solution for my mum that works & I don't want to leave her in the hands of my sister who has basically claimed the whole house and sees my mum as an inconvenience.

My mums side of the family have seen what is going on - it isn't me in isolation. But they are too old also know to act but are understandably livid.

I would appreciate any help, guidance/clarifaction and legal clarification on how this matter should be handled. Part of the reason I am unable to fight back is because I don't know the law & if she is even allowed to be doing what she is doing & if she could actually throw me out of my mums house.

The care is a separate issue on its own.
 

CAL Y

Registered User
Jul 17, 2021
283
0
@JAMES Mcyntyre . Welcome to Talking point.
Im wondering why you think that your sister might have dementia.
From what you write she sounds like a very scheming woman who knows exactly what she’s doing.
Im sure others will be along shortly who can answer some of your legal questions.
 

Shedrech

Volunteer Moderator
Dec 15, 2012
11,895
0
Yorkshire
hello @JamesMcyntyre
a warm welcome to DTP

what a mess of a situation ... I feel so sorry for your mum, caught up in this

I do think you need professional advice as there are so many issues ... especially whether your mum has the capacity to manage her affairs and give her daughter permission to use her funds

these sites might be useful

call our Support Line, thay have a lot of knowledge of financial and legal issues
 

JamesMcyntyre

Registered User
Nov 20, 2021
14
0
@JAMES Mcyntyre . Welcome to Talking point.
Im wondering why you think that your sister might have dementia.
From what you write she sounds like a very scheming woman who knows exactly what she’s doing.
Im sure others will be along shortly who can answer some of your legal questions.
Hi thanks for your reply - dementia may not be the right word but I used it because I see a lot of the obscure behaviour my mother exhibited some 20 years ago when we now know she started with dementia. Yes I have considerd the alternative that she is scheming and manipulative is also a likely reason, but something I try to not to focus on.
 

Wildflowerlady

Registered User
Sep 30, 2019
911
0
Is your mum unable to sign a LPA just because she has dementia does not mean she is unable to if it can be shown she has some understanding at the time the document is done and has this document ever been discussed directly with your mum anyway. My dad had dementia but he was still able to sign the document we explained it was to help him in the future when he was unable to do some things himself. We actually arranged for dads GP to help with it as we did want to be sure that dad was happy for the LPA to be done and his GP was satisfied and signed some of the paperwork as well. It must surely be illegal for your sister to be doing what she is doing and I cannot see how she can throw you out if your mum owns part of the property and assuming your mum is happy for you to be there. Of course if your mum were ever to end up in a Care Home her own share of the property would be taken into account to pay for her care only proviso is if your sister is 60 years of age I believe there is a possibility she could stay in the home. I had a terrible toxic relationship with my sister but we managed to get through things with very little disagreements over money at least when he was alive, we never abused dads LPA but then dad didn't have much to argue over anyway. Regarding the car it amounts to theft perhaps you can find out if you can pursue this matter legally tell her you intend to do so, remind her the car was yours that she has no proof she paid for it and you definitely want paying for it now.
 

Starting on a journey

Registered User
Jul 9, 2019
868
0
Whose name is on the house deeds? Even if mum paid 90% of the asking price if her name is not on the deeds then I suggest that you contact a solicitor. I also suggest you get power of attorney if you can… you have a lot of work to do to establish the facts, only then can you decide to take it further. I don’t envy you, however in your sisters defence it is hard work looking after a dementia sufferer so a bit of financial support is not unreasonable….

The car is a different matter, this could possibly be theft and again check with solicitor ,
 

Starting on a journey

Registered User
Jul 9, 2019
868
0
Ah ha, just googled the phrase “is V5 proof of ownership “ it isn’t…..technically as you were abroad it was probably correct to put it in her name….now you are back I think you can transfer it to your name and take it back. Contact DVLA for details
 

Wildflowerlady

Registered User
Sep 30, 2019
911
0
Hi thanks for your reply - dementia may not be the right word but I used it because I see a lot of the obscure behaviour my mother exhibited some 20 years ago when we now know she started with dementia. Yes I have considerd the alternative that she is scheming and manipulative is also a likely reason, but something I try to not to focus on.
I also have wondered if my sister may have had early signs of dementia as I couldn't understand how awful she could be. I had noticed occasionally she would sometimes have lapses/denial of what she had said/done. I even sent her back an email once that she had sent me as she totally denied something awful she had said but she just made excuses when the proof was sent to her saying I had upset her when I hadn't. It was difficult to know if she has dementia developing as she has a long history of being terrible to me in fact since our childhood. Our dad passed in January last year and any further contact was still not pleasant so now we rarely have contact and was only as things were being settled. Contact will end once the memorial stone arrangements are settled which will be in May. I can't say I will miss her it will be a relief for contact to end.
 

JamesMcyntyre

Registered User
Nov 20, 2021
14
0
Is your mum unable to sign a LPA just because she has dementia does not mean she is unable to if it can be shown she has some understanding at the time the document is done and has this document ever been discussed directly with your mum anyway. My dad had dementia but he was still able to sign the document we explained it was to help him in the future when he was unable to do some things himself. We actually arranged for dads GP to help with it as we did want to be sure that dad was happy for the LPA to be done and his GP was satisfied and signed some of the paperwork as well. It must surely be illegal for your sister to be doing what she is doing and I cannot see how she can throw you out if your mum owns part of the property and assuming your mum is happy for you to be there. Of course if your mum were ever to end up in a Care Home her own share of the property would be taken into account to pay for her care only proviso is if your sister is 60 years of age I believe there is a possibility she could stay in the home. I had a terrible toxic relationship with my sister but we managed to get through things with very little disagreements over money at least when he was alive, we never abused dads LPA but then dad didn't have much to argue over anyway. Regarding the car it amounts to theft perhaps you can find out if you can pursue this matter legally tell her you intend to do so, remind her the car was yours that she has no proof she paid for it and you definitely want paying for it now.

Hi Thanks for your reply, initially my sister wanted to be the sole signature on the LPA, I disagreed to this and said it should be both of us. My sister wouldn't allow equal status and proposed my cousin be a third person on the LPA. I didnt think this was necessary but was left with little choice but agreeing as mums doctor needed changing due to the house move. At the time the doctor wouldn't give any more prescriptions for my mum as my sister hadn't given medication for 7 months prior to my return but had picked up the prescription every month. When I got back I started giving the medication from the 7 month stock so my sister stopped picking up new prescriptions. When I finished the 7 month stockpile the doctor refused more prescritpions as there had seemingly been a 7 month gap. But the gap was really 7 months prior to then.

So I had to agree to her terms on the LPA to get the doctor switched to get more medication. The other issue was the previous doctor had agreed to sign the LPA that mum was of sound mind to sign the LPA. The new doctor would not. So I got the forms signed by the old doctor, paid the fees, got mum to sign the forms. Then my sister changed her mind. Wanted to go back to only her on the LPA. So we managed to switch the doctor, but now the forms sit in limbo and may not be valid anymore.

When I say my sister has issues - around June last year is when the 7 month supply of meds ran out & the doctor refused more meds. So There was a 2 week gap while I managed to convince the doctor to give one last month before we switched doctor. The 2 week gap coincided with my mums 70th birthday. I was reticent to restart the tablets 2 days prior to her birthday and wanted to wait to restart until after her birthday expecting her to be more stable. My sister came at me screaming and shouting called me negligent and that I had a duty of care. But she missed 7 months in a row I just missed 2 days in 7 months.

My Mum is not really of sound mind to sign the forms the doctor did us a favour by saying she was saving us what i understand is a legnthy court period.

The car is another story...
 

JamesMcyntyre

Registered User
Nov 20, 2021
14
0
Whose name is on the house deeds? Even if mum paid 90% of the asking price if her name is not on the deeds then I suggest that you contact a solicitor. I also suggest you get power of attorney if you can… you have a lot of work to do to establish the facts, only then can you decide to take it further. I don’t envy you, however in your sisters defence it is hard work looking after a dementia sufferer so a bit of financial support is not unreasonable….

The car is a different matter, this could possibly be theft and again check with solicitor ,

This is part of the problem I havent seen any of the paperwork, my sister did it all and hoards all documents in her office.

After agreeing to a joint power of attorney and me getting all the paperwork my sister changed her mind and now wants sole power of attorney in her name.

I appreciate it is hard - but there must be a limit to what can be claimed, at times just my sisters wine bill has gone over 50 GBP per week.
 

JamesMcyntyre

Registered User
Nov 20, 2021
14
0
Ah ha, just googled the phrase “is V5 proof of ownership “ it isn’t…..technically as you were abroad it was probably correct to put it in her name….now you are back I think you can transfer it to your name and take it back. Contact DVLA for details
that is interesting - thank you
 

northumbrian_k

Volunteer Host
Mar 2, 2017
2,235
0
Newcastle
It is not up to your sister to say who is named as Attorney on Lasting Power of Attorney documents. That is something that the Donor - in this case your Mum - decides. She should not be strong armed or unduly influenced to name someone as Attorney because of what that person thinks.

Of course, to get to that stage the Donor must have capacity to understand what making an LPA entails and to decide for themself to do this. If your Mum has not got that capacity then wrangling over who becomes Attorney is pointless. It may be necessary to apply for Deputyship. That may involve more paperwork, more expense and more wrangling.

It is worth considering whether your sister can be shown to be using your Mum's money for her own benefit. She almost certainly can't do so legitimately.

A talk with the Helpline would seem like a good way forward.
 

Wildflowerlady

Registered User
Sep 30, 2019
911
0
Hello @JamesMcyntyre if your mum has already signed the LPA it can still be registered with OPG it would be valid assuming all the paperwork was completed correctly at the time mum signed. Are there 3 attorneys on it yourself, sister and cousin and do you all have to agree to how it's used is cousin just a ' replacement' should one of you ie yourself or sister be unable to. LPA's can be registered at anytime but most will send away when completed but registration is still possible if that will be of benefit to your mum. Just realised you are saying mum signed GP signed but sister and presumably cousin refused?
 
Last edited:

Jaded'n'faded

Registered User
Jan 23, 2019
3,071
0
High Peak
This is all going to be very difficult! On no account allow your sister to become sole PoA. Insist on the joint application, in fact demand she produce all the paperwork and get it sent off if you haven't already done so.

Clearly, she doesn't want you seeing how she is spending the money. She's actually acting illegally as I'm sure you know. An Attorney is not allowed to benefit financially from the donor (your mum) and clearly if she's living off your mum's money, she will want to continue! It has to stop. It's fair for your mum to contribute to household expenses and pay for anything that is directly for her, but that's all. Your sister could claim Carer's Allowance. (And you should make sure your mum gets Attendance Allowance and council tax disregard if she is entitled.)

However, I am very aware that sorting all these issues is going to be horribly difficult and may result in a permanent falling out between you, which obviously you'd want to avoid. But the bottom line is, she is acting improperly and you need to stop her. Getting the joint PoA would stop her 'being in charge' and you would have equal rights to oversee all the paperwork. Unfortunately, if she won't co-operate you'll have to report her to the OPG.

If the PoA isn't registered, your sister should not have access to your mum's bank accounts at all!
 

Starting on a journey

Registered User
Jul 9, 2019
868
0
This is part of the problem I havent seen any of the paperwork, my sister did it all and hoards all documents in her office.

After agreeing to a joint power of attorney and me getting all the paperwork my sister changed her mind and now wants sole power of attorney in her name.

I appreciate it is hard - but there must be a limit to what can be claimed, at times just my sisters wine bill has gone over 50 GBP per week.
Ah ha, just googled the phrase “is V5 proof of ownership “ it isn’t…..technically as you were abroad it was probably correct to put it in her name….now you are back I think you can transfer it to your name and take it back. Contact DVLA for details



£50 per week on wine !!! I was thinking more like the odd hair do or top if they went shopping!!
 

JamesMcyntyre

Registered User
Nov 20, 2021
14
0
Hello @JamesMcyntyre if your mum has already signed the LPA it can still be registered with OPG it would be valid assuming all the paperwork was completed correctly at the time mum signed. Are there 3 attorneys on it yourself, sister and cousin and do you all have to agree to how it's used is cousin just a ' replacement' should one of you ie yourself or sister be unable to. LPA's can be registered at anytime but most will send away when completed but registration is still possible if that will be of benefit to your mum. Just realised you are saying mum signed GP signed but sister and presumably cousin refused?
Hi Cousin still happy to sign no problem, the plan was to make it so all three people agreed before a decision would be taken. The LPA has been filled out with all three of us on it. Its just my sister who now refuses to agree to it.
 

JamesMcyntyre

Registered User
Nov 20, 2021
14
0
Ah ha, just googled the phrase “is V5 proof of ownership “ it isn’t…..technically as you were abroad it was probably correct to put it in her name….now you are back I think you can transfer it to your name and take it back. Contact DVLA for details



£50 per week on wine !!! I was thinking more like the odd hair do or top if they went shopping!!

I wish - she would even pay for her hair to be cut & that is was just cut & not died as well - costs a fortune.

She doesn't pay for anything, petrol - nothing!
 

Shedrech

Volunteer Moderator
Dec 15, 2012
11,895
0
Yorkshire
Hi Cousin still happy to sign no problem, the plan was to make it so all three people agreed before a decision would be taken. The LPA has been filled out with all three of us on it. Its just my sister who now refuses to agree to it.
if you mean that the LPA will be for all 3 Attorneys to act 'jointly' , be aware that this really does mean that everything has to be signed off by all 3 of you so if one is unavailable or refuses, the other two cannot go ahead .... it could make things impossible
'jointly and severally' gives more flexibility, and if you and your cousin are in agreement it will be easier to keep your sister under control ...
 

JamesMcyntyre

Registered User
Nov 20, 2021
14
0
This is all going to be very difficult! On no account allow your sister to become sole PoA. Insist on the joint application, in fact demand she produce all the paperwork and get it sent off if you haven't already done so.

Clearly, she doesn't want you seeing how she is spending the money. She's actually acting illegally as I'm sure you know. An Attorney is not allowed to benefit financially from the donor (your mum) and clearly if she's living off your mum's money, she will want to continue! It has to stop. It's fair for your mum to contribute to household expenses and pay for anything that is directly for her, but that's all. Your sister could claim Carer's Allowance. (And you should make sure your mum gets Attendance Allowance and council tax disregard if she is entitled.)

However, I am very aware that sorting all these issues is going to be horribly difficult and may result in a permanent falling out between you, which obviously you'd want to avoid. But the bottom line is, she is acting improperly and you need to stop her. Getting the joint PoA would stop her 'being in charge' and you would have equal rights to oversee all the paperwork. Unfortunately, if she won't co-operate you'll have to report her to the OPG.

If the PoA isn't registered, your sister should not have access to your mum's bank accounts at all!

Thanks - this is all useful I am happier now knowing there is a government institution that she can be held accountable to if she won't volunteer this information and cooperate.

The PoA isn't registered, my sister will coerce my mum into signing stuff when she draws down on savings accounts. But my mum has barely a clue what is going on. Wouldn't know the month or season of the year. Has no concept of what money is anymore. Mum hasn't used cash to buy something for over 2 years already.

The fact that my sister says a PoA is needed indicates my sister thinks my mum is not of sound mind so shouldn't be signing for savings accounts to be drawn down.
 

Jaded'n'faded

Registered User
Jan 23, 2019
3,071
0
High Peak
If your sister won't agree to the joint PoA tell her you and the cousin will go ahead and set it up without her. She cannot insist she is the sole attorney or no PoA. I really think you need to take charge of the situation.
 

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