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Joint and Several POA

Muttimuggle

Registered User
Dec 28, 2021
319
0
This is the second time I have posted over this matter. I shall try to be brief(ha, ha).

I have a brother who spend much of the time out of the country in the States where he owns 3rd house. By July he will have spent 2 lots of 3 months since last Oct there. The 2nd house is also out of this city maybe 90 miles away. I decide not to communicate with him about our mother because he says he rarely reads my emails. He usually goes away with just one day's notice with his wife and asks(like in May this year) by text, for me to" send no emails or texts except in a real emergency". He phones my mother about every 2 weeks(I think). Mum loves him - he is her son. When he was back here for a 2 month period around May he didn't see my mother much as he and his wife were mainly dealing with an end of life, and then death, situation with his wife's father. Shortly before he returned to the States in May he asked that I would phone him. I was reluctant. He said he had never read any of my emails, which were updates about our mother but that he "had now". He said he was not happy with much that I had done. To summarise - I set up care for my mother and increased it when her dementia got more noticeable. She has 2 x 30 min slots most days. I had dealt with a bathroom conversion because she could no longer get in the bath and I had attended hospital appointments concerning her skin which then needed treating for pre-cancerous conditions and ulcers at home and from which she recovered with my and the carers intervention. I attended the GP to learn she had an anaemia diagnosis which is now being treated....apart from also getting her weekly shop and dealing with her frequent matters of confusion....the things which many on here will be familiar with.

Anyway - all my brother wanted to discuss on the phone (apart from his criticisms of me ) was the matter of POA which I had mentioned in one of the emails to him. I am reluctant usually to receive phone calls from him because he is intimidating and it is impossible to get a word in edgeways. He talks AT you and can be aggressive. He said he had spoken to Mum and that she had said she wanted us both to do POA. I agreed to a visit to a solicitor with him and Mum but was very sceptical about brother's motives and I had previously thought our mother would not pass a capacity test. When the appointment was made brother, once again, gave me no forewarning or tried to fit in with a day which suited me and went alone with her. It wasn't a specialist solicitor but someone who specialises in Media claims! Anyway, she did pass the test!...which is good thing. Brother then texted to say the forms will arrive and and also to tell me he would be leaving for the States until some undecided time in July. It was then that he asked for "no correspondence unless it was an extreme emergency".

The solicitor was/ is very slow. After a week I phoned and did express my concerns that my brother could most times choose not to read my emails and preferred me not to get in touch(I have given up doing so now. What is the point in writing to someone who doesn't read it?). The solicitor said that although being abroad did not pose a problem two siblings who did not communicate was not a good idea. He said he would contact my mother about it.

Again the solicitor was very slow and when I kept phoning to ask he kept saying he would make the phone call to my mother to check her intentions. He sounded busy. Meanwhile, I talked to Mum several times about it but she kept, over and over again, confusing POA with her Will. "Well when I die......" she kept saying. I kept on explaining gently that it is about such a time when she can not decide things for herself any more.. I also told her it will be difficult to share the responsibility with brother because he chooses not to receive updates from me and that we will need to be able to communicate and agree. Brother never wanted me to get in care in the 1st place even though mother had been double dosing on some dangerous medication. He, like her, was in denial. However, when he went away to the States I went ahead and did it. Mum is better for it, less complaining now and a bit happier.

I decided to phone the solicitor again this morning about the promised call he hadn't made. So first, at 9am this morning I phoned Mum I repeated what I had talked about to her - the meaning of POA and the problems which might arise with doing it jointly with brother. As she had done on previous occasions this week she saw sense in just me having the POA. She thought it was the best idea. I told her I was going to phone the solicitor again today about the phone call he had not made. I told her to ask what he thought about her 2 children not getting on and sharing the attorney role.I thought she understood.

Next I got through to the solicitor's secretary and said that if the solicitor could not get in touch this week, as promised, I would have to go to another solicitor for advice and maybe to start again. I think that prompted the call that followed.

Mum reported that he had phoned. "What did he say? What did you say?" I asked. She said she told him that - yes, she wanted to go ahead with the joint POA(I assume joint +several). I asked if she had asked about the stuff about us not communicating and she only reminded him that my brother was away a lot. Then she said to me, "Well when I die, I want both of you to......" She had forgotten again(!) what POA was and was confusing it with her Will. So that's how it stands at the moment - The solicitor didn't ask the right questions and mother didn't actually understand what she was agreeing to...and maybe, as to be expected, Mum forgot to ask the right questions.

Here is my question(sorry it is has been long winded): If my brother continues to go away a lot and doesn't involve himself in the care of our mother will I, when she loses more capacity, be able to act (as I am now really) independently to help Mum to understand and make decisions? Then, when, or if, she loses capacity completely would be able to still make the best decisions for her.? I mean, if my brother continues to take himself out of the picture, will this actually mean I am able to act largely alone(provided it is joint and several - which I will check tomorrow). Much of the time he doesn't appear to want to be involved - but likes to criticise the job being done.

I hope my question makes sense. I am trying to eliminate one of my current worries(again) Thank you if you read through.
 

Jessbow

Registered User
Mar 1, 2013
4,315
0
Midlands
Joint and severl allows you to gt on with it, as it does him, both of you independently.

Solicitor shouldnt really be speaking to you - mum is the client. If he cannot communicate her wishe it does make you wnder if she does have capasity
 

Muttimuggle

Registered User
Dec 28, 2021
319
0
Joint and severl allows you to gt on with it, as it does him, both of you independently.

Solicitor shouldnt really be speaking to you - mum is the client. If he cannot communicate her wishe it does make you wnder if she does have capasity
Yes - correct about the capacity thing - but I must proceed quickly now in order to get it. Thank you. That sounds re-assuring about being able to just "get on with it".
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
18,829
0
South coast
BTW, just for information - if the solicitor decides that your mum does not have capacity, then you would have to apply to the Court of Protection for deputyship, which will give you similar powers.
 

Muttimuggle

Registered User
Dec 28, 2021
319
0
BTW, just for information - if the solicitor decides that your mum does not have capacity, then you would have to apply to the Court of Protection for deputyship, which will give you similar powers.
That's interesting. Some have said that Deputyship is hard to use and that you have to wait a long time for decisions to be granted? Actually this solicitor seems "set to go". I think Mum said he was going to send out some forms - which is what he promised in late May. I have been cautious not to rock the boat too much while he has deemed that she has capacity. Thanks Canary.
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
18,829
0
South coast
Some have said that Deputyship is hard to use and that you have to wait a long time for decisions to be granted?
It did take a long time for the deputyship to come through as it required a court to decide that mum no longer had capacity and that I could look after her finances (neither of us had to attend the court) and I did have to submit an annual financial report to show what had happened to all her money (down to literally the last penny), but I did not have problems with using it once I received it.

It is better to have POA, but if your mum cannot authorise it due to loss of capacity, then there is this way out.
 

Muttimuggle

Registered User
Dec 28, 2021
319
0
It did take a long time for the deputyship to come through as it required a court to decide that mum no longer had capacity and that I could look after her finances (neither of us had to attend the court) and I did have to submit an annual financial report to show what had happened to all her money (down to literally the last penny), but I did not have problems with using it once I received it.

It is better to have POA, but if your mum cannot authorise it due to loss of capacity, then there is this way out.
Thank you. I never realised you used it. That is a comfort to know. I am a signatory on Mum's account at the moment but it only gives me the use of a bank card for her current account only. I cannot access any of her other savings though- which might need to be shuffled around if her current account gets too low. I am careful about how and when I use it this card so I think I could do that annual financial report. Your information has helped my understanding. Understanding takes part of the burden away. xx
 

northumbrian_k

Volunteer Host
Mar 2, 2017
2,421
0
Newcastle
So far as joint and several Power of Attorney goes, I have always acted alone in respect of my wife's needs. Her son is also an Attorney. He and I have been estranged since before my wife's care home admission 3 years ago. To my knowledge he has never shown any interest in her affairs or in acting as Attorney. Her care home know him from sporadic visits and are aware that if I am incapacitated or not reachable (eg on holiday) they should contact him if significant decisions that can't wait need to be made.

Hence it is possible to act as Attorney without reference to any other named Attorneys.

I would suggest that you need not bother sending email updates, especially if they are not read. You aren't obliged to either as a matter of family duty or (assuming it goes ahead) when exercising Power of Attorney. It seems odd and rather discourteous, not only that he doesn't read them, but also that he tells you he doesn't.
 

Muttimuggle

Registered User
Dec 28, 2021
319
0
So far as joint and several Power of Attorney goes, I have always acted alone in respect of my wife's needs. Her son is also an Attorney. He and I have been estranged since before my wife's care home admission 3 years ago. To my knowledge he has never shown any interest in her affairs or in acting as Attorney. Her care home know him from sporadic visits and are aware that if I am incapacitated or not reachable (eg on holiday) they should contact him if significant decisions that can't wait need to be made.

Hence it is possible to act as Attorney without reference to any other named Attorneys.

I would suggest that you need not bother sending email updates, especially if they are not read. You aren't obliged to either as a matter of family duty or (assuming it goes ahead) when exercising Power of Attorney. It seems odd and rather discourteous, not only that he doesn't read them, but also that he tells you he doesn't.
Thank you so much. This is just what I needed to read. This is putting my mind at rest. Familes, hey? ! Not the easiest of things! Yes I think my brother aims to wound any way he can(and wound he often does!). It might be a kind of jealousy that he is not involved...but then he can't have his cake and eat it. He wants it but he also wants to be out of it and away.