1. Expert Q&A: Protecting a person with dementia from financial abuse - Weds 26 June, 3:30-4:30 pm

    Financial abuse can have serious consequences for a person with dementia. Find out how to protect a person with dementia from financial abuse.

    Sam, our Knowledge Officer (Legal and Welfare Rights) is our expert on this topic. She will be here to answer your questions on Wednesday 26 June between 3:30 - 4:30 pm.

    You can either post questions >here< or email them to us at talkingpoint@alzheimers.org.uk and we'll answer as many as we can on the day.

Is this Normal part of the disease progressing

Discussion in 'ARCHIVE FORUM: Support discussions' started by Margarita, Dec 9, 2007.

  1. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    10,824
    london
    #1 Margarita, Dec 9, 2007
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2007
    I tell my mother who laying down on her bed , to get up as dinner ready . I've got dinner plates in my hand , she always lie down in a strange way on bed , so she roll over sets up on edge of end then slip down on to floor , siting down lucky beds not high so she not
    hurt , but she cant get up .

    I put plates on table , try to help her up , but could not do it , because mum wanted to put all her weight on me that would broken my back . No one at home only me, so we could of both lifted her up

    It was like mum had no control of her legs , only upper half , She crawled around on floor trying to put her top body weight on bed to pull herself up, she could not do it . this went on for 5 min , with me saying am calling ambulance or knocking on someone door to help me lift her up, while she said '' what a life '' she was getting angry at me . with me getting angry at dog for licking mum toes . so told dog to get out. while mum finally around few min later , got her coordination right got on her knees bent together with hand holding on l zimmer frame chair , me holding down zimmer frame so it would not move


    This Happen 2 year ago in bath mum could not lift herself out of bath, but never on floor . what happening .

    then she sits on chair eats her dinner I tell don't lay on bed anymore during the day
    I go out of room come back and she laying on bed

    Just can someone tell me please is it normal with this disease that next stage slowly she lose control of her legs , just want to know the truth please
     
  2. gigi

    gigi Registered User

    Nov 16, 2007
    7,788
    East Midlands
    Hello Margarita! I'm no expert but I know Eric is slowly using the use of his legs-struggles out of his chair/in and out of bed/in and out of cars. He used to be very active but now sits in a chair most of the day so the muscles in his legs do not work properly any more-it's called muscle wasting-would happen to all of us if we didn't walk. Do you think you should have your mum checked by a doctor? I understand the fear,also when you think you may be in a position of trying to help someone off the floor and unable to do it. If this happens with your mum and nobody is available to help call an ambulance. I'm sure other members will come up with some advice too. Love Gigi x
     
  3. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    68,678
    Kent
    I don`t know Maggie, but Dhiren hasn`t been able to get up off the floor for a long time. And I have problems because of osteoporosis and arthritis, my ankles and knees are weak.

    If it happens again, see if your mother can get into a crawling position on hands and knees, crawl to the nearest solid chair, put her lower arms on the chair and lever herself up by putting her weight on her elbows.

    If you try it yourself, you might understand better what I mean. But if it fails, call an ambulance.

    I wouls ask your GP if it has anything to do with Alzheimers or the next stage, or whether it`s general weakness and poor co-ordination.

    I hope you are OK. You sound very upset.

    Love xx
     
  4. CraigC

    CraigC Registered User

    Mar 21, 2003
    6,630
    London
    Hi Maggie, it must be hard for you to get this extra problem.

    To be honest, I don't know if it is a progression. Good advice to ask GP.

    However, what I can say is that dad has had some usual problems with falling over and falling out of bed. Not regularly, but particulary when he is disoriented say in a new environment or just out of sorts. He has just been found on the floor a couple of times an no one quite knows why. He is thoroughly checked and on most occasions no harm done thankfully. Dad also rest a lot more now and has his eyes closed more of the time, again I'm not sure why but these kind of things are a worry for us all :(

    Maggie, perhaps he does feel that his legs are not working, I honestly don't know what is going through his mind at that time.

    Hope you get many more replies and advice.
    Kindest Regards
    Craig
     
  5. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,417
    I do wonder whether this might not be an old age thing rather than the disease - my mother didn't have AD (stroke damage) and she did have severe arthritis in her hips. but we had a few episodes of this. I say episodes because she'd be back to "normal" after a while. She described it as having no feeling in her legs (like they'd gone to sleep) and I do wonder if that's exactly what it was - her strange position on the bed (like your mother) cutting off the circulation to the lower half.

    P.S. I got her up when I was on my own in stages - on a cushion, on a low stool, then on to the bed.
     
  6. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    10,824
    london
    #6 Margarita, Dec 9, 2007
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2007

    yes that what she was trying to do herself , but her legs keep slipping around underneath her , that what I found hard to understand she could not lever herself up so she give up .. but done it at the end



    yes your right that what the I was told also , if mum does not keep active her leg muscles would waste , so thought sending mum to day center would keep her legs active , that was year ago , they told me that . she does walk to bus that picks her up , 5 days a week, but then bet she just sitting down like she does at home.

    CraigC you have been of help in
    sharing all of you have . Craig if you seen it happen even thought yes it was and is upsetting to see , it was like her brain could not cooratate with her legs tell her what to do. she was trying so hard to life herself with her elbows , like
    syvia explained it .

    and all I could do was visualize in the future mum siting they , talking eating normal but not being able to walk , wondering maybe like your father they think they can walk normal but the brain not sending the single from the brain down to the legs Nevis [ sp] to walk , because of the damage what the disease doing to that part of the brain that control the legs


    Yes could also be that , because not all people with AZ in last stages like my mother is , but with last stages of medication loss control walking do they .
     
  7. connie

    connie Registered User

    Mar 7, 2004
    9,519
    Frinton-on-Sea
    Maggie dear, that is just what used to happen with Lionel some 3 years ago. He lost the ability to use the lower half of his body to raise himself.

    At the time I put it down to lack of spatial awareness.

    Gradually, during the early part of this year his legs (or his brain telling his legs) refused to work for him.

    Unable to stand even with carers holding him on either side.
    With Lionel it certainly istn't an age related thing, as he is still only 66. Sorry if this is depressing, but you did ask for honesty.

    However remeber, they are all different. Hope mum regains her
    equilibrium soon. Love, Connie
     
  8. Skye

    Skye Registered User

    Aug 29, 2006
    17,000
    SW Scotland
    Maggie, this is exactly what happens with John when he has a UTI. Is this a possibility?

    John was perfectly fit when it first happened, and had no muscle wastage, he loved to walk.

    I'm not saying that's what the problem is, it could be natural progression of the disease, but you should certainly see a doctor, as quickly as possible. If there is an infection, the sooner it's treated the better.

    Love,
     
  9. Lynne

    Lynne Registered User

    Jun 3, 2005
    3,433
    Suffolk,England
    My Mum also ...

    but then she is 88 y.o. so many people would say this is normal for a person her age. I don't think so, she often says things like "my knees feel like jelly" or "my legs won't work", but they work well enough if she wants to answer the door or the phone indoors!

    Mum has always been very young & active for her age (acting/doing things appropriate for someone 15 years or so her junior) and this seems to be a state-of-mind change. In the last 6 months she has become more 'anxious' generally, and dislikes me going out (eg shopping) without her. (She's safe to leave on her own for an hour or so, so far.) However, she has always been a 'cold mortal' and the recent change in weather has been enough for her to decline any offer to come with me, or for a walk round the block as has been our daily habit while the weather was better.

    I'm well aware that this is a use-it-or-lose-it situation as regards her mobility, so I push her out of her (sauna-like) comfort zone if I can anytime the sun shines, even if chilly. We live in a bungalow, so she doesn't even get any stair work exercise (tho I'm thankful that risk doesn't apply!) and I'd be very grateful for any tips to increase her activity.
    I'm afraid by the time winter is over, she'll have taken root in her armchair & walks found the block will mean me giving her a piggy-back! :eek:
     
  10. Cliff

    Cliff Registered User

    Jun 29, 2007
    777
    North Wales
    Dear Margarita,

    Sorry to hear of your problem.

    Dee was quiet in her work room so I was happy.

    Then I found she was on her knees and couldn't get up. She is only tiny and 7 stone but I could not lift her,

    Then we got into a difficult position and I couldn't let her go. Fortunately I had my mobile in my shirt pocket and was able to ring my neighbour who has a key to my house.

    He is stronger than me and picked her up like a doll - but very gently.

    It is also difficult for her to get into and out of the bath so am having a walk-in bath fitted.

    So it does seem as common factor.

    With love,
     
  11. gigi

    gigi Registered User

    Nov 16, 2007
    7,788
    East Midlands
    I can see by looking at Eric's legs that the muscles have wasted-but had a real scare 2 nights ago when he was unable to sleep(he's had a chest infection) I managed to settle him and persuade him to go back to bed-he sat right on the edge of the bed and i thought he was going to go off the edge. Found myself thinking "what will I do if he does". Eventually I got his legs in-but it was scary.We too live in a bungalow so no stairs for exercise. Any time he does do a short walk-and I mean short-it leaves him exhausted. I did ask the consultant about this at our last visit and he shrugged his shoulders and said he hasn't got age on his side! I think with Eric the motivation to walk has gone because he can't play golf/drive etc like he used to. Another reason for me to not work and be here for him. I know I can't work miracles-but when i go to work I leave him for 5 hours and he just sits! At least if I'm around a bit more I can do some gentle nagging....;)
     
  12. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    10,824
    london
    yes Cliff it does seem to be a common factor , good idea about having the mobile ringing friends next door .

    Eric sounds so like my mother, with siting down so much and my mother 78 always was very active

    ambulance like you said , if we cant lift them at lest then , they can be also check them over , when my mother slip of bed , I thought to myself don't panic she was not hurt, just very angry when she found she could not get up, seem her anger got her up thank god .
    what a silly thing to say , he hasn't got age on his side . I would of thought ''what age got to do with it , as its a disease that progresses at a rate that no one really know how fast or long with each person ''




    Shall check if mum got UTI tomorrow thanks hazel just in case

    I can take urine sample down to doctor tomorrow as I have seen how mum wipe her bum , strange never notice it before , because she never ask me , but has been asking of late she wipe from the front forward , not the back so could be pushing bacteria into her privet parts , if you get
    what I mean . Not something you normal talk about .

    Lynne

    Only tip I can give , it what I use to do was put on some upbeat music , mum would sit they looking at me dancing so would get her up to dance , her walking was not so bad , so she dance with me holding my both hands , then as time pass would have to hold her like when you dance close with a partner , music up beat but slower .

    been a while since last done that , must do it on days she not at day center , but now she have to hold on Zimmer frame to dance another thought is ring your land line with mobile , seeing that your mum answer it , making sure she not near it so she gets up.... the say sorry wrong number at lest it make her get out of the chair

    Connie no thank - you for being honest , I know I can never prepare myself seeing her like that as its quite shocking first time , so when it gets worse , at lest I know its expected to happen .

    what would I do without TP, you all may me feel so much better
     
  13. DeborahBlythe

    DeborahBlythe Registered User

    Dec 1, 2006
    9,222
    Maggie, so sorry you have had a shock with your mum's legs giving way. Best to see what the GP says I guess. My mum had one or two falls when she was in one of the care homes, but I never witnessed them. I did witness her fall about six years ago when we were out walking in the country, but that was mainly due, I think to the fact that her trainers were worn to a glassy sheen on the soles: a fact that I was unaware of. She stood up from a wayside bench and the ground was dry and slighty gritty underfoot. It was like standing up on a tray of tiny marbles. Her feet shot out from under her and she broke her wrist trying to save herself as she fell backwards. I have a photo of her taken a few minutes before this happened and every time I look at it I think " Oh goodness, if only I could turn the clock back and take you off in a different direction... if only I had checked your shoes properly."

    My mum hasn't been able to walk for over a year now and I'm told that her muscles will not grow back again. However, you may be interested to know that today the home where she lives had a new Activities Coordinator starting work. She held an 'Armchair Aerobics' session in on e of the living rooms. I was about to take my mum up to bed as usual, but decided to see if she would like to join the 'aerobics' session. She said she did! So I wheeled her aorund and with some difficulty she joined in a number of the exercises. I gave her sips of fruit squash between exercises. She was able to lift her legs and wave her feet a little, wave her arms and wriggle her shoulders and wobble her head in time to Chas and Dave! She was much brighter at the end of it and laughed all the way upstairs!
    Just thought I'd share this with you. Hope you and your mum are more composed now. Love Deborah xx
     
  14. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    10,824
    london
    yes thanks , still unsteady on her feet but walking with Zimmer frame . now she wont let it go walk with out it , not even to toilet .

    My mother OT does a class like that at mum AZ day centre one say a week . OT told me , when she came around to see about adaption to new house we moved in to this year that mum really love to join in .

    It so good to read that even thought your mother in wheelchair cant walk , she still try to Join in with you helping her. I would be like that also .

    I know we all are all good in caring , but your so good helping your mum in care home , am just dreading that day when she cant walk , may be that day is when she have to go into home so it help me with helping mum , I have to be realistic , I know I cant do it alone even with support and respite at home.

    No wonder they say Take one day at a time , but it good to share
     
  15. peppa

    peppa Registered User

    Jun 5, 2007
    26
    london
    Hello Margarita,

    I'm sorry to hear about this difficulty.

    My mum has had problems for some time with not being able to get up off the floor. We specifically asked a physiotherapist to help her with this at one stage when she was having a lot of (fortunately not serious) falls at home and she did teach her the technique of getting on all fours and moving to an armchair/low surface to help up. When I found her on the floor I did sometimes help her up that way, by guiding her into what to do. The problem is, she could never remember to do this by herself, so if someone has memory problems it's only useful if someone else is around.

    Lately my mum seems to have lost a lot of weight, and her muscles have definitely wasted. She's been in hospital at least 4 times this year (admitted again today) and it does seem that she can 'forget' how to walk when she has an infection. I remember physios in the hospital being quite pessimistic and saying they thought she would need a zimmer and help at all times, but within a week she was up and about with a stick. When I saw her last week at the CH her legs did buckle under when she was using a frame and we now discovered she has a UTI so I think that explains it. I am hoping she will make a good recovery, but see that it is definitely important to exercise, even if that means walking to the end of the corridor, to stop further muscle wastage and keep good circulation.

    Definitely see the GP to check for any infections. I do hope your mum gets stronger soon.

    peppa:)
     
  16. jude1950

    jude1950 Registered User

    Mar 23, 2006
    182
    Lincolnshire
    Hello margarita,
    I cant offer any advice on this one but wanted you to know that I think your mum is very lucky to have such a caring daughter.
    take care
    Judith
     
  17. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    10,824
    london
    #17 Margarita, Dec 11, 2007
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2007
    peppa

    She won't let me take it , they I was bowl ready in hand ..... they nothing wrong with her and I have ant I got anything better to do :rolleyes: she tell me .

    Ok held it in , what I felt like saying :D only because she won't see the logic in it .

    shall work around it .

    Thanks jude, mum does relies it .

    Just that she was always been a suborn in her ways before AZ when she thinks she right . now with no logic so can not reason with her she worse , just have to assert myself with her with out blackmailing her with care home .

    Just have to use my Teacher voice with mum she good in picking up my vibes , my daughter use to tell me that, I sounded like one when I told them of when they where younger , still find it hard using that voice on my mother
     
  18. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    10,824
    london
    My mother always ask me what I am reading when on computer and always relate it about an elderly lady .

    So I said that an old lady , [I use the word old because mum can understand that rather then elderly lady ]
    keep falling over just like you , all because her urine was smelly [ I don't say infection she come out with she not been sleeping with anyone to get an infection ] so had to go into a care home and don't want you to go in a care home . So do you want me to take some of your urine just in case, so she said Ok :) do it if it make you feel better .
     
  19. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    68,678
    Kent
    Bravo Maggie! You know how to handle your mother so well. :)
    Love xx
     
  20. Lucille

    Lucille Registered User

    Sep 10, 2005
    542
    Maggie

    Your inventiveness knows no bounds! Well done. (I smiled at what you said about your mum's response to the word 'infection' and that she's not been sleeping with anyone.) Lovely!

    She's really lucky to have you. Stick with it, girl! :)
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.