Is it too late for power of attorney?

Discussion in 'Legal and financial issues' started by Grandaughter 1, Aug 12, 2006.

  1. Grandaughter 1

    Grandaughter 1 Registered User

    Jan 17, 2006
    141
    Hampshire
    We never got any power of attorney sorted out when Grandad got ill and now he is too ill to really understand it or sign anything.

    We thought everything was covered as all the bank accounts have been changed to joint names a long while ago (Nan and Grandad) and they don't own their own home.

    Anyway the main savings account which has got a substantial sum of money in it Nan has discovered she can't access as the bank (Halifax) requires both signatures! There is no cheque book, they just both have to sign to withdrawel cash or get a cheque drawn up.

    Can anyone advise what can be done and if we can still get power of attorney or whatever is needed drawn up so Nan can take over Grandads finances. I looked at the factsheets but got very confused by it all!!

    Thanks in advance

    Louise x
     
  2. Áine

    Áine Registered User

    there are others around here who i'm sure can advise better. just to say though, that i thought dad was beyond being able to agree to EPA but still got it. when the solicitor said that he'd have to get GPs opinion on whether dad was fit to sign it, and the GP said would have to get psychiatrist's opinion ....... i thought we didn't have a hope. but psych seemed quite happy to say dad was able to go ahead ....

    good luck

    Á
     
  3. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    10,824
    london
    #3 Margarita, Aug 12, 2006
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2006
  4. Grandaughter 1

    Grandaughter 1 Registered User

    Jan 17, 2006
    141
    Hampshire
    We've got an appointment with a solicitor next Monday as Nan wants to get Power of Attorney sorted out for her as well just in case anything should happen to her. My Mum and Uncle will be appointed.

    Fingers crossed then that we'll still be able to get it for Grandad as Aine mentioned. I hope we don't have to go down the receivers route as the fee's involved seem quite a lot. And having to renew it annually etc make it more pricey.

    I'll tell you what though going slightly off topic. I'm rapidly going off some banks that shall remain nameless for their lack of care,tact and customer service!!!! grrrr
     
  5. Helena

    Helena Registered User

    May 24, 2006
    715
    You do not need the expense of solicitors

    Just download the EPA forms from the Guardianship Office website theres only 4 pages

    They are very very easy to fill in and sign in front of a witness

    Just get Grandad to sign it in front of a witness ........dont worry to get him to understand it

    Tell him its so Gran can get money to eat

    Otherwise you will have to get receivership which costs £500

    Once you have the signed EPA take it to the bank .......they should accept it as is and stamp it ( mine did several stamped and certified copies for me too )

    Then you can deal with everything first and then send it off plus the £120 to register it .........this takes 35 days so its vital to do as much as you can with it first

    If you need more help shout .........I have had wonderful co operation from state pensions people /civil service /Saga insurance /Barclays bank /etc all of them have accepted the signed EPA
     
  6. dmc

    dmc Registered User

    Mar 13, 2006
    1,157
    hi grandaughter 1

    the nameless bank is not the one you named in your first post then:D
     
  7. Grandaughter 1

    Grandaughter 1 Registered User

    Jan 17, 2006
    141
    Hampshire
    Ha ha. Did I name one before then? Well there are 2 now on my list of banks!!!!!
     
  8. Michael E

    Michael E Registered User

    Apr 14, 2005
    618
    Male
    Ronda Spain
    If you get the POA yourself it only requires a 'witness' to sign along with the however bad signature of your grandad. There is no obligation what so ever to require that witness to be a Doctor or Neourologist. The witness can be anybody. The POA application merely states that at 'the moment of signing' the patient - your grandad - understands what he is signing.. 5 minutes later - an hour later he may not but at that moment in time the witness needs to believe that the patient understands.

    The Government web site is very understanding and helpful..www.guardianship.gov.uk
    have an excellent help line. Call them, get the forms, fill them in, get some sort of a signature from grandad in front of the witness - a friend - and then if you feel it is appropriate register the POA which does cost around £130. There are all sorts of safeguards built into the system which you will understand when you read the booklets.... Solicitors are not required or needed. They merely exploit the situation and charge like angry bull for a system the state has put in place - free of charge - for people in exactly the situation you are in.

    good luck with it - it is an excellent web site with good back up by nice people who really want to help. How ever doubtful the moment of signing all you all have to do is to believe that for that tiny moment your grandpa understands ..

    Michael
     
  9. dmc

    dmc Registered User

    Mar 13, 2006
    1,157
    only the one above beginning with H:D
     
  10. Áine

    Áine Registered User

    h*b*

    another nameless bank have been a bit of a nightmare ..... after i spent ages with them registering the EPA and setting up internet banking ..... the first and only time i phoned internet banking ...... just to say that they hadn't done as i'd asked and were still sending statements to dad's house ....... they said i had nothing to do with the account and refused to speak to me :mad:

    having said that ..... there's one woman there ....... Ellen ..... who has been a complete delight. dad had been going into the branch increasingly confused and so bad one day towards the end of last year that she managed to get my phone number off him and gave me a call because she was concerned. dad and i went into the branch and she very patiently helped us through setting up third party signing on his accounts so i could help more before i got EPA, and she helped us shuffle the money around so there was less risk of dad withdrawing lots of money and losing it ... as i think he had been doing.

    when i went into the branch earlier this week to freeze dad's accounts since he died, she was around, and we managed to arrange it so that she was the advisor i saw. she was completely lovely - not just efficient with sorting the bank stuff but also being kind. she clearly remembered dad very well and remembered our meeting to set up third party. she saying what a lovely man he was, and how much he clearly loved me because of how his face lit up when she asked if there was anyone she could call to sort this out, and talking a little about losing her dad.

    really couldn't ask for better, kinder service than that :)
     
  11. Helena

    Helena Registered User

    May 24, 2006
    715
    I do agree that just one helpful staff member in whatever bank it is makes all the difference in the world

    The 1st branch of B I went into was unhelpful but the 2nd one had a "personal banker" who was superb

    So much so I have sent a major letter of thanks and comendation

    Problem is now he will probably get promoted and someone useless will fill his place
     
  12. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,418
    Ooo, I can attest that "the world's local bank" is the pits to deal with, particularly if you have to/want to deal with them from another country, and forget about online. They have a policy that only the primary account holder can access the account over the internet, and at one point, they acted like I was a major felon when I was trying to get this all set up. Despite being a signatory on all my Mother's accounts they persist in giving me the runaround every time I call to transfer money via telephone banking. I even went into the branch when I was last over (and found that they'd lost my signature card, so they shouldn't have been allowing me to write cheques, although they were) and was assured that it was sorted out, but it hasn't been. As for Halifax, I ended up closing those accounts - they simply have no way to transfer the money to an external account unless one goes to the hassle of setting up a current account - can't even do a standing order. This also despite setting it up in branch, and being told that it was fine.

    Jennifer
     
  13. RussellC

    RussellC Registered User

    Jul 6, 2006
    47
    I was thankfully able to get an EPA in place. When it came to registering the process was straightforward as well. Dad and I have the same bank. They couldn't have been nicer and I think it helped that they had no worries about my identity.

    At the moment I try to involve Dad as much as possible. The bank were happy for his signature to remain on the account and mine was added on the day with me having full access within three days. Essentially this means Dad can sign his own cheques but on those occasions where the result is unclear I add my signature. I explain what the cheques are for.

    From our experience I would advise that a Power of Attorney is put in place as soon as possible. I delayed because I did not want to take away Dad's powers over his own finances. I was helping him to manage, but looking back it would have avoided a lot of stress if I had acted sooner.

    Russell
     
  14. Grandaughter 1

    Grandaughter 1 Registered User

    Jan 17, 2006
    141
    Hampshire
    Hi all,

    Just a little update to say that Nan has arranged for a solicitor to do a home visit on Friday costing £30. The solicitor is going to explain everything to Grandad and judge whether he is of sound mind enough to understand everything. If he is, she will draw up the papers, otherwise we will have to rethink things.

    I'm going to be there and must admit I'm nervous about how Grandad will react!
     
  15. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,418
    Just a heads up - the solicitor will probably want to speak to your Grandad on his own at some point, to ensure he's 1) not being coerced and 2) not being given subtle hints about what to say.

    Jennifer
     
  16. jarnee

    jarnee Registered User

    Mar 18, 2006
    181
    leicestershire
    HI Grandaughter1

    I will be interested to know how things go with the solicitor as my dad will agree with most things and trusts me implicitly, but I really don't think a solicitor would think he was understanding enough to sign an EPA....his GP didn't think os.

    If your does, it might give me new hope.
    Jarnee
    xxxxxxxxxxx
     
  17. Tender Face

    Tender Face Account Closed

    Mar 14, 2006
    5,379
    NW England
    Hi Grandaughter 1!!!

    If it's any help I know when I arranged for a solicitor to make a home visit for mum re EPA I was sooo nervous....... felt I was the one under scrutiny for any potential 'misdoings' - let alone my mother's state of mind!!!

    I think solicitors get short shrift at times .... and we can tend to see them as 'judge and jury'. IMHO, I think solicitors dealing with family and/or medical law have a far better understanding of the holistic issues of a family than many other professionals....

    Remember, you (or your family) are paying for their service and advice .... they are there to help and to protect - including you - and giving their 'judgement' about the situation means exactly that - 'judgement' not criticism!!!!

    (I got the distinct impression the particular solicitor I used realised that mum was not at all capable of fully understanding what was going on but saw enough to assess that what was happening, in our particular circumstances, was in her best interests).

    Good luck with it!!!!

    Love, Karen (TF), x
     
  18. Lynne

    Lynne Registered User

    Jun 3, 2005
    3,433
    Suffolk,England
    If it's not too late ...

    What you need is Enduring Power of Attorney, not just power of attorney. I'm sure the solicitor will clarify it for you if you ask.

    Best wishes
     
  19. Grandaughter 1

    Grandaughter 1 Registered User

    Jan 17, 2006
    141
    Hampshire
    Hi everyone,

    Well the solicitor visited Nan and Grandad today (I was there too)

    I was really worried he would tell her to go away as he doesn't like visitors and he has been shouting at the home carers saying he doesn't want them there!!

    He sat there really quietly and said he understood and wanted the EPA which was good, however, the solicitor was going on a bit like she has to I suppose and asked Grandad about 4 times if he was happy. Grandad was looking a bit fed-up/bored by then. She said she would draw up the documents but will write to Grandads GP first so I don't know if that is standard or she wasn't happy!

    The cost is £200 + VAT to draw up an EPA for both Nan and Grandad and £30 + VAT for the home visit. It will then be £120 extra if we need to register the EPA with the courts. I don't know if we would have to do that straight away or not??

    I'll let you all know if we get the go ahead when the solicitor hears from the doctor.
     
  20. Lila13

    Lila13 Registered User

    Feb 24, 2006
    1,342
    Your solicitor was more expensive than ours then.

    Ours interviewed my mother alone, so he could be sure she was not under undue influence.
     

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