Intermediate Doctors

[Tender Face]

I am informed today that mum is no longer under the care of her GP - because of the hospital intervention which resulted in her being admitted to her nursing home she has 'Intermediate doctors'? Sorry, but never come across this before - and just when I need her GP most (I am challenging for medical investigations) ... I seem to have lost him ....... It seems mum is now under the remit of a hospital team. Two hospital medics arrived today after I begged the NH to refer her - (zero appetite, weight loss, and now severe oedema) .... unfortunately when I had to be home for my son ..... mum told me later they were asking her if she wanted to go home!!!!!! They don't even know her well enough to know that she can't remember her own medical history .... let alone whether she might be able to report any symptoms accurately???????? And it seems I have 'lost' the ability to make a scheduled appointment to ensure I can be there at the consultation???????

Any one have experience of this?

Many thanks, Karen (currently thinking of changing signature to 'Life is getting more bizarre by the minute!)

 

[Charlyparly]

Hi Karen,

No – I can’t say I’ve ever heard of Intermediate Doctors before. I'm also unsure as to why your Mum's GP no longer has involvement.

However, I do have a lot of experience with Doctors / Paramedics etc, not appreciating the difficulties of someone with memory difficulties. They ask questions and take their answer as gospel. It’s bizarre and often infuriating, but you will just have to insist on them liaising directly with you (presumably as her next of kin?) regarding your Mum.

Did nobody say someone would be calling to see your Mum beforehand?

 

[Skye]

Hi Karen

I haven't heard of them either, but I would imagine that because your mum was sent to the NH by the hospital (I think that's what you said), she'd still come under their jurisdiction. GPs don't deal with patients while they're in hospital, but take over again once they're discharged.

I'd guess that once your mum has gor over her infection, she'll be discharged back to the GP.

I had the same problem with not being there when doctors visited. This was one of my complaints to the GP practice. I know they can't always specify at time to visit, but I asked them to ring the home half an hour before visiting, so that the home could notify me. It worked!

I hope you can get something sorted out so that your mum gets the care she needs.

Love,

 

[Tender Face]

Enlightment - well of sorts!

Thought I'd share what I had clarified to me today .....

An intermediate doctor is someone assigned by the hospital, but not working from the hospital, to assess whether someone requires hospital admission. In the event of avoiding hospital admission the intermediate doctor takes responsibility for the patient although the GP does retain 'ultimate' responsibility, hence if a patient requires the attenion of a doctor the carer must ring the GP who will then refer them to the intermediate doctor. If the intermediate doctor then decides the patient needs to referal to AN Other hospital doctor/specialist the intermediate doctor must refer back to the patient's GP to make the referral?????

Confused? Join the club!

It does seem to create yet more hoops for people (especially the professionals) to jump through ... and tells me that there are a lot of people like my mum who really need hospital care but the risks now of being admitted are too great for someone who is so poorly (still trying to get my head round that one!!!)

Love, Karen, x

 

[Cate]

Hi Karen

and tells me that there are a lot of people like my mum who really need hospital care but the risks now of being admitted are too great for someone who is so poorly (still trying to get my head round that one!!!)


Well honey, if this system wasn’t so tragic it would be laughable. So we can deduce from this that all those people in hospital are really quite fit and well, because if they were really poorly, it would be too risky for them to be admitted!! Jeepers……. That is beyond belief and comprehension.

All I can say is, I’m sending you a massive hug, if you ever get around the red tape, I hope you manage to get mum the medical attention she clearly needs and deserves.

Thinking of you.

Cate xxxxx

 

[TinaT]

What a mess for you to try to clear up!!! And in the middle of all this is a very, very sick woman!! I've just had some similar (although not nearly so serious!!) problems with Ken's medication.

At the time of Ken's discharge from the hospital to the Nursing Home, the Consultant said that she would keep his bed at the hospital open for a few weeks in case things didn't work out.

The staff at the home phoned me on Friday to tell me his tabets were running out and they didn't have enough of some to last him the day. They had phoned Ken's GP's surgery but were told that they hadn't got his discharge papers and in any case, they felt that the home was just outside their area and it might be better if he is given a more local doctor.

I suggested to the manager of the NH that he phone the hospital for tablets, as it was fast approaching a Bank Holiday weekend. The manager phoned me back to ask would I call to the ward to collect the urgent tablets on my way to visit Ken. On the ward I was given just enough to last him until Monday, had a little 'telling off; that this should have been sorted earlier and left feeling as if I was the biggest nuisance in the world.

Monday the home phoned me again to ask if I would now collect a prescription from the ward as they had phoned and arranged for a two week supply to be given by the ward whilst the manager of the NH sorted out a new doctor for Ken.

I arrived on the ward and immediately felt a tightening of my stomach, a feeling very familiar to me from the 9 months Ken had been there. After being made to wait a while I was given the prescription with the warning that I (I???) mustn't ask for any more as they wouldn't let me (me??) have any! Quite annoying as I hadn't asked them for anything!! However I learned long ago that it is pointless to argue with them in any way. Whatever you say is ALWAYS taken and used against you. Ken is still awaiting his final discharge so I said nothing as I don't want to rock any boats at this final hurdle.

Took the prescription the length of the very large hospital to the pharmacy to be told that as I hadn't got the patient's medical chart, they couldn't dispense the medication!!

I won't go on and on, needless to say I didn't leave the hospital without the precious medication. Got back to the NH with the tablets. The manager was furious when he opened up the package to find that they had not sent enough for even two weeks of one of the tablets!!!

What can one say!!!! None of this was a surprise to me as I've had similar experiences this last 2 years when my 84 year old mum had been discharged after a few hospital stays. Sorting out the medication between hospital and doctor is so frustrating.

However all of my troubles pall into insignificance when reading that a very sick lady cannot be admitted to hospital without a muddle up about attending doctors and then to be left with the statements that she is too ill to be moved. It beggers be3lief!!!

xxTinaT

 

[Skye]

Confused? Join the club!

Absolutely, Karen!

It sounds like deliberate complication to confuse the masses (US!)

and tells me that there are a lot of people like my mum who really need hospital care but the risks now of being admitted are too great for someone who is so poorly (still trying to get my head round that one!!!)

What an indictment of our wonderful NHS!

Tina, I'm sorry to say that you saga of the tablets does not surprise me in the least!

 

[Tina]

Blimey, Karen, what an episode...confused doesn't even come close.
Am only just catching up with all this, hope there has been some improvement by now.

Thinking of you and sending you hugs,
from Tina

 

[Margarita]

An intermediate doctor is someone assigned by the hospital, but not working from the hospital, to assess whether someone requires hospital admission. In the event of avoiding hospital admission the intermediate doctor takes responsibility for the patient although the GP does retain 'ultimate' responsibility, hence if a patient requires the attenion of a doctor the carer must ring the GP who will then refer them to the intermediate doctor. If the intermediate doctor then decides the patient needs to referal to AN Other hospital doctor/specialist the intermediate doctor must refer back to the patient's GP to make the referral?????

Yes I have heard of that, but I never had to ring the GP to talk to the doctor , I just ask for this doctor , when I had any concerns about my brother . when your mother discharge from NH sent back home, she can still have her own GP.

If she is assessed to say in the NH & is given the discharge paper from the hospital , she still have the choice to stay with her own doctor ( If the NH is not within the hospital )


If you mother was not referred to the NH from the hospital this would not be happing .

Just wondering Is the NH within the hospital ?

They don't even know her well enough to know that she can't remember her own medical history .... let alone whether she might be able to report any symptoms accurately???????? And it seems I have 'lost' the ability to make a scheduled appointment to ensure I can be there at the consultation???????

And it seems I have 'lost' the ability to make a scheduled appointment to ensure I can be there at the consultation???????

What do you mean you lost the ability to make a scheduled appointment ? do you mean you missed the appointment ?

 

[Tender Face]

What do you mean you lost the ability to make a scheduled appointment ? do you mean you missed the appointment ?

Dear Margarita - that almost made me smile for a moment .....

Do you know of the 'Law of Sod'? As in it's Sod's Law ..... like I can spend all morning with my mother at the NH waiting for doctors to come- only when it gets to 3pm I have to leave because I need to be home to care to other matters (like my son) .... so it's Sod's law you wait all day - even though they said morning when it's gone well into the afternoon ...... and just when you have to leave ......... what you had been waitng for actually happens ........ with mum's GP I have always been able to make 'scheduled appointments' (i.e. for specific times more or less) and organise other responsibilities like family and work ..... around meeting them ......

Trying to keep any focus on family (high priority) and work (low priority - but with an eye on the mortgage payments) .... is a tough struggle just now ......

Kaz, x

 

[Just thinking]

Thought I'd share what I had clarified to me today .....

An intermediate doctor is someone assigned by the hospital, but not working from the hospital, to assess whether someone requires hospital admission. In the event of avoiding hospital admission the intermediate doctor takes responsibility for the patient although the GP does retain 'ultimate' responsibility, hence if a patient requires the attenion of a doctor the carer must ring the GP who will then refer them to the intermediate doctor. If the intermediate doctor then decides the patient needs to referal to AN Other hospital doctor/specialist the intermediate doctor must refer back to the patient's GP to make the referral?????

Confused? Join the club!

It does seem to create yet more hoops for people (especially the professionals) to jump through ... and tells me that there are a lot of people like my mum who really need hospital care but the risks now of being admitted are too great for someone who is so poorly (still trying to get my head round that one!!!)

Love, Karen, x

In response to your last sentence I imagine the 'risks' are C.DIFFICILE., MRSA., etc. My GP said people are safer in their own homes as the risks of infection in hospitals these days are great especially when elderly, and/or in poor health with lowered immunity.

 

[Margarita]

Do you know of the 'Law of Sod'? As in it's Sod's Law .....

Yes , No what you mean . It happen to me a few times .

I get so Paranoid that I feel they are doing it on purpose , so I can't talk to them.

When it happen the first time my daughter came with me , we waited the whole afternoon. he was meant to be they for 12 am . he never turn up till 5 pm . My daughter did complain to them , but I thought its not worth it because they came across very patronizing . It make no different.

she tell me put it in writing then your see the different in how they treat you in the future , but I never got any energy left over to find the time to put it all in writing .