in a state of panic

[jenniferpa]

Becky Jan if you're getting attendance allowance it shouldn't be being taxed see here http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/DisabledPeople/FinancialSupport/DG_10012425

"Attendance Allowance (AA) is a tax-free benefit for people aged 65 or over who need help with personal care because they are physically or mentally disabled." I think the adjustment is normally done by modifying your tax coding.

 

[nemesisis]

as the ss explained to me you only get aa when you are getting billed for care ie mum was cared at home with care providers visiting twice a day so mum got aa of 43.18 per week but council bill for care providerd was 30.50 but when mum had her fall she was in hospital so council could not charge her care fees aa was cancelled I was told it would be reinstated when mum became self funding in care thats what happened to mum now wondering if this is correct after reading some posts?

 

[jenniferpa]

Well the first bits not right - you can receive AA even if you're not getting any care at all. You don't get it if you're in hospital (after 28 days) or receiving fully funded NHS care or (I believe) any level of social security funding. When you become self-funded again (including those people who are getting some level of NHS funding) you get it again.

 

[nemesisis]

jen ta for that

thanks will get my brother to check that out
trouble with me is (clueless) they tell me something and I belive them thats why I panicked when they said I must find a care home this weekend thanks to all replies realise this is not so (my new rule do not be intimidated) xx

 

[Nebiroth]

As far as I know - Attendance Allowance will stop if you go into a care home/hospital and you are not self-funded. That is because in effect the state would pay a benefit and then take it right back again. Attendance Allowance is to pay for help you need with care, and - in theory - if you go into a care home you get that care, and it is paid being for by the state; which is what AA does. So you get your allowance, but indirectly. But if you are self-funding, then you still get it, because you pay for your own care, and qualify for the benefit that exists to help you do so. It sounds odd but it is fairly logical.

And, absolutely, Attendance Allowance is NOT means tested and it does NOT count towards taxable income. Unlike say Carer's Allowance which is taxable.

This table on the DirectGov site tell you about what happens to AA in various situations

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HealthAndWellBeing/HealthServices/CareHomes/DG_10031411

It says on the first page:

Attendance Allowance (AA) is a tax-free benefit for people aged 65 or over who need help with personal care because they are physically or mentally disabled.

Note that by "tax free" this means that the income is excluded from your taxable income; if you are a tax-payer because of other income, the AA part will not be taxed (like interest on an ISA). If your income is so low that you do not pay tax, then Attendance Allowance will not change that - even if it means your income rises above your personal allowance. Attendance Allowance can be disregarded when it comes to income tax.

 

[Skye]

It's even mopre complicated in Scotland.

John lost his AA after he had been in hospital for 28 days. If he had come home, it would have been reinstated, even though he would have had a (free) personal care package from SS.

But because he has gone into a care home, and we're self-funding, we get the free personal care but not the AA. Something of an anomaly, I feel.

 

[BeckyJan]

Thanks for that Jennifer - we have been taxed on it since it began in 2004!! No allowances shown up for it on any of the calculations.

(I will start checking yet again - it coincides with me just getting hold of a tax accountant mainly cos I just have not got the time to deal with tax on top of everything else - so maybe it will all be sorted for me anyway).

Jan

 

[Nebiroth]

Wow! I think you shouldn't have been taxed on the AA. How do you pay income tax? Do you do a self-assessment or get an accountant to do it for you?

In either case, AFAIK Attendance Allowance should not be included as part of your taxable income. Like interest on an ISA account, it should be disregarded. I guess you'd have to put it in the assessment somewhere - it's been years since I did one - but it should be under something like "non-taxable income".

It might be worth seeing if you can relaim the tax back.

I believe that in tax years where you did not do a tax assessment and paid too much tax, you can just inform the Revenue. If they agree, they will repay it, up to five years back.

If you paid too much tax in a year when you did an assessment, then you have to claim what is called "error or mistake relief", and I think this can also go five years back.

By "five years" they mean five years after 31 January following the year for which you're making the claim.

It could really be worth it if it made the difference between being a non-tax payer and tax payer, if it's only the AA that's pushing you over the tax-free personal allowance. In which case you could receive things like interest on saving account gross as well...and you could get rebates on those too...

The Revenue would investigate your claim, and probably look at ALL your tax affairs to make sure you were entitled. But they are pretty good at doing tax rebates.

It sounds as though you need to go through the calculations with your tax accountant.

Are you getting something like Carer Allowance? Now that *is* taxable...

 

[BeckyJan]

When we were doing our own self assess. forms we were approached by the Inl.Rev. asking them to give details of my husbands increased state pension!!!!!! This was obviously Attend. Allowance - so we duly informed them. Tax was increased!!! We have since added in this benefit although keeping it separate.

I have investigated our forms over the past two years and yes they have included the benefit for tax purposes. Jennifer mentioned possible allowance in code - if that is the case I do not know, hence asking the accountant to investigate.

The whole problem has been magnified because the Inland Revenue cannot give me details of David's tax situation - they tell me I can give them info but they cannot give it in return! The tax accountant is now authorised to act for him, thank God.

SO this has been a very useful thread for me - thanks
Jan

 

[Grannie G]

Dear Jan,
Just because the attendance allowance is paid together with the state pension, in one payment, doesn`t mean it has to be declared for income tax purposes. It is not an increase in pension as you thought, it is a tax free benefit.
I hope you get a hefty rebate.
Love xx

 

[Nebiroth]

When we were doing our own self assess. forms we were approached by the Inl.Rev. asking them to give details of my husbands increased state pension!!!!!! This was obviously Attend. Allowance - so we duly informed them. Tax was increased!!! We have since added in this benefit although keeping it separate.

If you told the Revenue your Pension increased, then they would charge you tax, because State and other Pensions are taxable income.

If you got Attendance Allowance, your Pension did not increase.

You were granted an additional, tax free benefit.

Both my mother and father receive Attendance Allowance, and it shows up in their accounts as separate payments. Usually you can tell the DWP to make AA payments the same way that any state pension is already being paid, but you can have it paid into a different account if you want to. Usually the payment will list in a bank statement as something like "automated credit - DWP - AA"

AA is paid by the same Department (the Department of Work and Pensions) as State Pension, but it is not part of your Pension at all.

 

[Helena]

Its not part of the pension but they sure soon pay both together as one lump sum
despite asking them to pay it into a separate account

 

[BeckyJan]

I made it quite clear what was the Attendance Allowance payment . Yes, Helena they do pay as a lump sum and I believe that is where the mistake has been made.

I am certain we shall sort this out. Once the IR know what we are about I am sure there will be an adjustment.

Its good to air this point - many others clocking into TP could be caught into the same trap. The problem is when a carer has all on trying to cope with umpteen jobs it is easy to overlook the obvious.

Thanks all and especially to Nemesis for starting this thread (I am sorry if it has gone off key!!).

Jan

 

[christine_batch]

When my husband was admitted to hospital with another mild stroke, he also was incontinent and has A.D. The hospital expected me to go in every day to change him. After 6 days I was informed that he was better off at home with me. In actual fact they were short staffed and when we visited Peter daily, he was always socking wet and soiled. Better off at home was an excuse, the Doctor did admit to me that appart from being under staffed, staff did not have the experience for A.D. patients.
Christine

 

[Skye]

Christine, that's absolutely shocking!

Yes, in those circumstances, I'm sure Peter was better off at home with you. But what an indictment of our NHS.

the Doctor did admit to me that appart from being under staffed, staff did not have the experience for A.D. patients.

For goodness sake, don't they have any training?

 

[christine_batch]

Dear Hazel,
When I have been talking to Consultants, Proffessional who deal with A.D. they have admitted that with the under 65's and many older patients, the Staff do not know how to deal with them. i.e. not filling in their menus, nor helping them with food etc. I have been told that the only people who know what to do are the Carers'. This is so wrong because they are paid to care for our loved ones and I know we do it because we love them and do our best. Peter's Consultant use to make many notes on Peter's visits and he said it was so helpful when dealing with other patients. Plus I was told the only people who could make a difference to the system was the Carer. So what ever we do, the ball unfortunately is at this time back in our court.
Best wishes. Christine

 

[Skye]

Plus I was told the only people who could make a difference to the system was the Carer. So what ever we do, the ball unfortunately is at this time back in our court.

Christine, you're so right. We've been having so many meetings and training sessions up here, trying to get them to take more notice of what the carer says. The nurses are always willing to listen and learn, it's the consultants we have problems with (hospital ones, not the specialist psych-gers, who generally - not always- understand).

They pay lip-service to what we say, agree it's a good idea -- and go away and do things the way they've always done them.

It's very frustrating, but we're gradually chipping away.

 

[ellie 123]

Sorry to be so negative but they can discharge. They get SS to find a temporary care home whilst you are looking for one. This is what happened to my mum, I managed to negotiate a date with the hospital but it was only for an extra week.

ellie x