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Discussion in 'I have a partner with dementia' started by angiebails, Oct 7, 2016.
You must tell all this to the OPG.
I'm so sorry you are in such a horrible position - I'm fuming on your behalf
I don't understand this
negotiations with whom? certainly not you - and in an adult world the negotiations come before denying husband and wife access to marital finances - and they are not financing you, your husband is - they are not financing your husband, he is ????
please contact the OPG - personally I'd phone them today and also send an email with all the details - just copy and paste your posts here - then also send them the letter as your solicitor can always send you another copy if you want to read it
maybe start your email something like this:
I have contacted your office before about my husband’s POA instigated by his son and daughter.
My husband has a diagnosis of dementia. I am his carer and he still lives at home with me.
The POA for finance and property was applied for by his children in 2009.
My current complaint is that the Attorneys have taken control of my husband’s bank accounts and made it impossible for my husband and myself to access them. I have no income of my own and therefore have no way of paying bills for my husband and/or myself. This is not in my husband’s best interests, either financially or regarding his health & welfare.
Please advise URGENTLY what action I can take and what action the OPG will take.
Here is the background .....
do this now
very best wishes
Read The Letter After A Cup Of Tea
So, so sorry you are having to go through all this stress, Angie.
PLEASE, when you get rested and fortified, open and read that letter. Yes, it may be painful. But ignorance is not Bliss. You will be better for having read it, whatever it contans.
I know it is very hard and painful to contemplate. But it's better, in my opinion, to see what they are wanting to communicate to you, so you have a clearer understanding of the overall situation.
I second the above advice: get help from the organization that oversees these situations.
Painful process, but you can do it, once you are rested and have a cup of tea and help your Hubby to settle. It's best to face the ugliness, head-on (as in reading the letter) and get it over with, so your imagination doesn't add to the problem.
We are all hoping the best for you and your husband.
Hugs and prayers,
I have been keeping up with things. You really must contact the OPG today and tell them what is happening. If they are prepared to cut you and their father off financially what might they do next! The mind boggles.
The way they are behaving is abusive and that is not acceptable, LPA or no LPA.
As the others have said definitely get in touch with the OPG. I don't understand why your solicitor is hesitant. And when the POA is overturned do your best to spend all "their inheritance"
I'm still fuming on your behalf.
I am speaking without detailed knowledge, but ..... I don't now have the opportunity for POA because, due to circumstances beyond anyones control, my wife was unable to make a declaration of intent whilst able to make her wishes clear. I thought POA had to be sanctioned by the person who's assets were to be the subject of the POA!! I now live with a succession of meetings of best interest .... Clearly what is happening to you is not in your husbands best interest and as such has to be wrong!! and against your husbands best interest!! ... Your husbands children can't and must not be allowed to get away with their behaviour and actions which are not in your husbands best interest and could be deemed as 'technically' theft!!
Something is not right here ... as I stated earlier .. I missed the opportunity for POA because my wife could not make her views and wishes known from a sound state of mind ... how can your stepchildren do this without your husbands consent and wishes being respected??
We live with this awful desease dominating our every breath ... call their bluff let them find out just what life is like living with dementia ... they will soon realise how disgracefully they have behaved ... unless of course .. it is all about the money and in no way about their love and protection of their father!! ... stay strong !!
Please do as Shedrech says. It is up to you to contact the OPG - not the solicitors. Your husbands children should be negotiating with you about finances - not your solicitor. Are they going to pay your solicitors fees? They should do as its because of their behaviour that you have had to resort to contacting a solicitor. The sooner the OPG know about all this the better.
Oh my gosh I hope you get some help soon.
I am stunned at what people will do for money.
I am POA for mum...so that means mum's money. Not mine , hers and for her things.
I have only just read all of the posts about your situation. I am shocked that people can be so cruel to other members of their family just to get money, or to stop you having control of the money to look after their Dad. Someone should remind them that you can,t take it with you when you go. What the hell is this all about. So sorry and sad for you and your husband. Hope it is sorted soon.xxx
Angie, I have read all your posts. Your husband and you have no income. Your husbands income goes into his bank account and banks have blocked access. Surely this must be abuse of POA? Having POA means using funds for your husbands care and using it for the usual living expenses. It is your husbands and your money. It is not an inheritance for anyone.
I may be totally wrong but in my opinion, this is parental abuse. In my country abuse like this can be reported to SS. Your husband is a vulnerable adult. SS and age concern should be made aware asap. Surely they have some duty of care for both of you. You are being bullied.
What would happen if your family were not able to help you? This help may be excuse for children to do all these horrible things to both of you. So now you have no access to funds. What can you do? Contact SS and inform them that you have no money for even basics? Surely they will have to act immediately?
This reply will bump up your post again and Bring it to the attention of TPs who have more knowledge and experience of your system.
Aisling ( Ireland)
I had a major breakdown today after a night of no sleep. The solicitor has come back to me with a letter from his daughter who has analysed our spending for the last 3 years from his bank statements and now what's an explanation re every transaction for 3 years. Quoting that cheques had been written since his illness started and how much we had spent and withdrawn from the bank. She wants all statements and an explanation on everything including our tax returns. The solicitor claims she rang the public guardian and says they have not broken the rules re the POA. My sister has spent the day with me and tried to go through all bank statements, cheques and transactions but I can't remember all of them. I rang social services and they say it is a legal matter so won't help. The daughter has offered me £150 in my account for a week but I don't know when that is coming. But my husband goes the pub every night and spends £15 on his beer my drink and a pork pie for him. That would leave me £45. I rang the dementia clinic, got an answer machine and left my number as I need help for tonight if his hallucinations continue but no reply. I rang the dementia helpline and left my number and as yet no reply. I've been told not to use his accounts, credit cards and not to sell anything. This is a disgrace and I don't understand why the public guardian don't think they are causing him abuse and suffering.
He worked all his life and now they don't want him to spend his money and again the only person suffering is me.
I have had so much advice but every door I have knocked on has got me nowhere.
How can they say when he became incapable of running his financial affairs as his children are just using his illness and stressing his in capabilities to suit them. Some of these transactions are when he was still driving a car and checking his own statements. They are treating him terribly unlike any one could. I have and still do give him so much respect, I ask him what he wants and would like but they just say by the report from the consultant he has no capacity to do or say anything.
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For heaven sake, ring the OPG, this is all so wrong.
She's already had your bank statements, and aside from anything else, if they have POA they can access this information themselves direct from the bank. Don't know about you, but I don't write many cheques these days.
You shouldn't have to justify your expenditure before the POA came into force, to anyone, surely?
I realise from your sorry tale that it is very hard to keep going on this but personally I would phone the OPG myself so they have the complete story of the last few weeks directly from you. You cannot be sure exactly what the solicitor has told them and how much detail she has gone into plus has she given you any advice on what action can be taken/should take rather than just sending the daughters letter with her demands? What exactly are you paying the solicitor to do? If this has become a family law issue you perhaps need immediate urgent specialist advice but more importantly somehow the immediate access to money needs resolving. I would be thinking if the solicitor got that answer from the opg either they weren't told all the facts or it was a very brief discussion. Please find a few minutes tomorrow to ring them yourself at least then you will hear it firsthand.
Completely agree...surely rather than just sending you the letter the solicitor should be advising you of your rights pre poa and as a married partnership etc. I think you are just going to go round in circles until you speak to OPG yourself as everyone else has suggested you do as a priority. At least you will know what they tell you is fact.
I told the solicitor that and my sister told her in no uncertain terms. The cheques that have been written are quite high but nearly all are for maintenance on rented property and to the tax office for tax due. The only one that is beyond my memory is £120 to Cheshire east council. I hadn't got a clue but I really don't care as this was 2014 when my husband was independent and still driving his car. I am paying the solicitor to sort this and I do need to follow her advice and she has suggested further options that I don't want to go down but why should I care as this is just the beginning as they are querying why we have paid a solicitor in the past but basically the answer has to be that is my husbands business and nothing to do with them. They think he can't make any wishes that they don't tell him too. But the same is when was it that he was not capable of making a decision as this is item specific according the mental capacity act 2005. As per I have had the day from hell due to this stress and my husband blaming me for not having any money.
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his daughter who has analysed our spending for the last 3 years from his bank statements and now what's an explanation re every transaction for 3 years. Quoting that cheques had been written since his illness started and how much we had spent and withdrawn from the bank.
Just because his illness started 3 years ago doesn't mean he had lost capacity then. The professional didn't say that until earlier this year and then I think it could have been contested as the doctor believed he did have capacity at that time. They have no right to go back that far and demand explanations.
The solicitor claims she rang the public guardian and says they have not broken the rules re the POA.
You don't know what the daughter said to the OPG. Its up to you to ring them or write to them and give them your version, preferably copying some of this thread to back you up. You should say how you were left without means to pay for chiropodist or buy food when the bank card was stopped, and how your family are having to lend you money to live on. Also, if your husband is well off enough to afford to go to the pub every day for a drink and a pork pie, he should be allowed to and the money should be there for him. It is part of his routine and makes him calm, and people with dementia get very upset if their routine changes
I rang social services and they say it is a legal matter so won't help.
This is more than a legal matter - you and your husband have been left without the means to live and at the very least you should get carers allowance and your husband should get attendance allowance.
The daughter has offered me £150 in my account for a week but I don't know when that is coming.
Completely unacceptable - just for a week? What about repayment to your family for the money they have lent you to tide you over? Also you could argue that you both can't live on that, and you would have to get a job, which means your husband would have to go to day care, or even permanent care.
This is a disgrace and I don't understand why the public guardian don't think they are causing him abuse and suffering.
The OPG dont understand this because YOU havent told them!
I have and still do give him so much respect, I ask him what he wants and would like but they just say by the report from the consultant he has no capacity to do or say anything.
Maybe you should go back to the GP who said he had capacity. The most important thing at the moment is for YOU to contact the OPG. Copy some of this thread to prove your point. You cannot rely on his daughter giving a true account of the situation. Stress how little she has seen her father during his illness and has no idea of what it takes to manage his behaviour and keep him happy and stable.
Just a thought- how long ago was the POA drawn up? was it before or after you were married?
if it was before, could it be said that it is no longer valid, given his change of circumstances, (like a will would become invalid on marriage)
If I came to it, would you be prepared to put him into residential care? That would soon eat into their precious funds. After all, you cannot be expected to care for him with no access to money
Ring the OPG tomorrow, please
0300 456 0300
0870 739 5780
Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday 9am to 5pm
Wednesday 10am to 5pm
Why do you think you have to go along with that demand? Is your solicitor telling you that you must?
I'm sorry, but unlike a will, marriage does not invalidate a POA.
I am so sorry to hear that you've had such a bad day, which is not really surprising.
I have found this article, written by a solicitors, about reporting abuse on a POA. I thought some of the information might prove useful.
I think the only way out of this dreadful situation is to take some action. The solicitor doesn't seem to be making a difference for you, which I find even more worrying. She should be jumping up and down by now, and certainly not being as accepting of the situation as she seems to be.
You and your husband have needs. It is not up to his daughter to tell you how much you and he can spend of his money nor is it her right to know how you both spent money before her involvement.
Please Angie, don't allow this to drag on. The OPG will listen to you and act on your behalf - so far they have one side of the story, the daughter's, and goodness knows what she has said. The OPG is the Office of the Public Guardian, a guardian to protect the public, especially those that are vulnerable like your husband.
Also, as the article says, all local authorities have safeguarding in place for vulnerable adults,
I'll stop rambling! I do know how hard it is to stand up and be counted when you feel so trampled on, and lacking sleep, stressed etc. But this is not going to go away on its own. One phone call is all it will take, and have your notes ready.
Good luck. Hugs x