Ian Botham

[Padraig]

Heres looking at you.

That is so sad I find, but each to their own. One of the most wonderful memories I'll cherish till the day I die, is of our great granddaughter. Each time our eldest grandson visited us from active service in Afghanistan he brought his daughter. I have a video of her at age two taking her plastic car to the side of my wife's bed, climbing on the toy car in order to kiss her great Nana. Other times when she thought no one was looking she would sneak a kiss to her arm while my wife sat in her high chair.

Children are human animals and just like dogs will readily connect with disabled people, not unlike guide dogs. Sadly some parents discourage their children at an early age form visiting ill people and from attending funerals, mistakenly thinking they are protecting them.

It may well be that Mr. Botham was raised that way. Until we change society in it's approach to the way we raise children to be compassionate towards Dementia. Better progress in care and understanding will ensue. From my experiences, many Dementia patient's spirits are raised at the sight of young children, it makes them feel at home.

 

[Saffie]

Padraig, your post has made me cry.
I do so very much agree with you.
The picture of your great grand-daughter climbing on her toy car to give her great Nana a kiss is wonderful and so poignant.

 

[lexy]

Unfortunately for him this is exactly how this interview comes across.

I suppose his words could have been misquoted though. They do intersperse his words with phrases about his charity work (I.e he's charitable to others but not his father). Comment on his support for Alzheimer's Society (I.e hypocrite). Even mentioning his affair! It doesn't come across as very supportive of him! I don't think the person who wrote it is a Botham fan

The paper quoted him as saying "I didn't want my memory of him to be distorted by the illness that robbed him of himself".

This is what HE wanted, I didn't want the memory of my dear mum to be distorted by her dementia but never for one second would I have "deserted" her when I knew she needed me most. Excuses and selfish. He should have supported his mother in her wish to continue seeing her husband.

 

[Anongirl]

That is so sad I find, but each to their own. One of the most wonderful memories I'll cherish till the day I die, is of our great granddaughter. Each time our eldest grandson visited us from active service in Afghanistan he brought his daughter. I have a video of her at age two taking her plastic car to the side of my wife's bed, climbing on the toy car in order to kiss her great Nana. Other times when she thought no one was looking she would sneak a kiss to her arm while my wife sat in her high chair.

Children are human animals and just like dogs will readily connect with disabled people, not unlike guide dogs. Sadly some parents discourage their children at an early age form visiting ill people and from attending funerals, mistakenly thinking they are protecting them.

It may well be that Mr. Botham was raised that way. Until we change society in it's approach to the way we raise children to be compassionate towards Dementia. Better progress in care and understanding will ensue. From my experiences, many Dementia patient's spirits are raised at the sight of young children, it makes them feel at home.

I have to agree Padraig, which is why I always give my children the choice. My mum adores her grandchildren, she never forgets their names, not a moment's hesitation. Her face lights up at the very sight of them. My daughter is 7 and my son is 3. They cause quite a fuss when they visit mum at the care home! The other ladies love them. It's a lovely sight to see them chatting together. Last time my son came with me he was sat across a table pushing a car to and fro with one of the ladies. It's good to open them up to things. My daughter has more understanding of mum's condition while my son just accepts her simply as grandma because that's all he's ever known her to be.

My instincts are to protect them from anything which would cause them distress though so I would prefer them not to see her suffer. They are young though. When they are older they can make their own decisions about things. I would never tell them what they should and shouldn't do.

This is how I was brought up too so you have a point there.

I loved reading about your great grand daughter!

 

[lexy]

“By the end, my dad was as near to a zombie as you can imagine,” says Sir Ian. “He had no control of his bodily functions, no idea who my mum was. Even a six-month-old would have had greater comprehension of what’s going on because at least a baby knows when to eat.”

So, his, 'dearly loved' father had reached rock bottom in his journey to the end of his life;
and where was his 'roaring boy' son?
Cowering with his kids and grand-kids from the sight of an old gentleman, (the man who had raised him.) in extremis.

Where was the comforting hand on his father's shoulder.
Who performed the watchful vigil that a son owes his father in his last hours?
These things were performed by a kindly but anonymous night nurse or care worker.
The same one who cleaned his father up, spoon fed him his last meal; and closed his dead eyes.

His tone of distaste for the suffering of a sick, old, dying man was shameful.
Maybe he thinks that confessing such shameful weakness, should automatically earn him a, 'get out of jail free' card. No way; in my book it was cowardice, pure and simple.

I agree with you.

 

[cragmaid]

I presume the capitals are for emphasis rather than shouting

.....I'm sorry, I forgot about the capitals protocols. Most definitely I was using them for emphasis.
The point I was and am still trying to make is the one which is quoted repeatedly on TP: that each person's action or reaction is of their own choice and no one can say it was wrong. By all means we can ( and I do) say "It's not what I would have done"
That is my choice ....because I am me.

 

[Kevinl]

Well he stuck his head above the parapet and he's getting a bit of a kicking for it.
I believe there is a genuine phobia that some people have when confronting sickness and death and it's as real as the irrational fear some people have of spiders or snakes,
I would hope that by honestly explaining what he did and how he felt may make others in the same position reassess why the feel the way they do and reconsider their position. Certainly it can only be more helpful than calling him a coward, shameful, weak and all the rest of the abuse dished out to him on here.
I don't agree with what he did but I hope by being so brutally honest with himself about what he did he will learn something and will be there next time he faces this situation.
K

 

[cragmaid]

Well he stuck his head above the parapet and he's getting a bit of a kicking for it.
I believe there is a genuine phobia that some people have when confronting sickness and death and it's as real as the irrational fear some people have of spiders or snakes,
I would hope that by honestly explaining what he did and how he felt may make others in the same position reassess why the feel the way they do and reconsider their position. Certainly it can only be more helpful than calling him a coward, shameful, weak and all the rest of the abuse dished out to him on here.
I don't agree with what he did but I hope by being so brutally honest with himself about what he did he will learn something and will be there next time he faces this situation.

Thank you.

 

[Saffie]

I don't agree with what he did but I hope by being so brutally honest with himself about what he did he will learn something and will be there next time he faces this situation.

The thing is - and I do realise that this is a report rather than hearing him speak himself directly so it is difficult to judge his tone - is that he seems to justify himself rather than feel apologetic. If so, it seems he has learnt nothing.
However, that is for him to face when his turn comes around.

 

[Countryboy]

I presume the capitals are for emphasis rather than shouting and you are indeed entitled to stand by any words you write ... but so are others.
Nobody here, as far as I can see has said anything is right or wrong.
They have just given their opinions, just as you have.
Everyone's opinion is surely as valid as another's.

Well said Saffie 100% correct and I agree , my gran died on my dads side when I was 12 months old my granddad died when I was in my forties he lived about 3 miles from us and in those forty odd years I expect I could count on one hand the number of times I saw him there wasn’t any reason for that just the way it was maybe it was because when my dad was a lad my granddad was away in the Army and obviously did build a bond or relationship with him in the early years just my thoughts

 

[gringo]

Friends, lend me your ears.
I come to bury Botham, not to praise him.
The evil that men do lives after them;
The good is oft interrèd with their bones.
So let it be with Botham. The noble ellejay
Hath told us Botham is a chocolate fireguard
If it were so, it is a grievous fault,
And he will surely melt where he’s going.
Here, under leave of Saffie and the rest—
For Saffie is an honorable woman;
So are they all, all honorable TP’ers—
Come I to speak of Botham
He was a sportsman who, for his own reasons, didn’t want to visit his Dad, and the massed ranks of TP. have risen against him. Infamy, he might say; they’ve all got it infamy.

Matthew 7:1-5
“Do not judge so that you will not be judged.

 

[Saffie]

Great Gringo - you've made me laugh!
I think ....but ...maybe not.

 

[cragmaid]

....and thus our play is ended.

Bravo Gringo

 

[Anongirl]

Wouldn't you love to hear what Botham thinks of all this?

 

[garnuft]

Matthew 7:1-5
“Do not judge so that you will not be judged.

Nair...it's called having an opinion. Those that condemn others for judging, are themselves judges.

Even Jesus wasn't perfect, he condemned the money-lenders, perhaps he should have kept his own counsel?

That’s the terrible thing about dementia; you watch someone die twice over.”

If you're a sufferer you die three times over in some circumstances, once at your predicament, again at your family's abandonment of you and then the final struggle.


Who would say it's OK to abandon a child in need?

Why should those who abandon their parents without just cause expect absolution?

I would not 'judge' him if, as Saffie says...he was saying he was wrong in how he coped with the end of his father's life but he does not do that.

He thinks it's OK.

Well, I don't.

 

[lexy]

Well he stuck his head above the parapet and he's getting a bit of a kicking for it.
I believe there is a genuine phobia that some people have when confronting sickness and death and it's as real as the irrational fear some people have of spiders or snakes,
I would hope that by honestly explaining what he did and how he felt may make others in the same position reassess why the feel the way they do and reconsider their position. Certainly it can only be more helpful than calling him a coward, shameful, weak and all the rest of the abuse dished out to him on here.
I don't agree with what he did but I hope by being so brutally honest with himself about what he did he will learn something and will be there next time he faces this situation.
K

He got a "kicking" on this forum because he deserved it. Genuine phobia, come off it!

 

[Countryboy]

I met many relatives at the door of mum's care home.They wouldn't go in because 'they' found it upsetting.They would hand over clothes/toiletries,and walk away.Sometimes i would ask why they wouldn't visit,they would say 'my mum doesn't know me,so theres no point.'

My reply was that mum didn't always know me,but i knew her,and sometimes in lucid moments she thanked me for visiting her.That meant so much to me.

We spent as much time with the residents that had no visitors as we did with mum,one lady would look for me every day,and would cuddle and kiss me.She had a large 'loving' family.They didn't visit.

If my post makes me judgemental i don't really care,if we were all like Ian Botham,people in care homes would feel unloved and neglected.If i hadn't visited every day,mum's abuse and neglect would have gone unnoticed.

Compassion,compassion,compassion.

Hi Kassy I know I come up with some odd comments but because I meet Alzheimer’s Society officials monthly and sometimes at my home I would be silly to say something that wasn’t facts, well my gran on my mums side of the family was evil and wicked now I’m one of 13 grandchildren and I’m next to the youngest they all disliked her she died when I was 21 so not much information dementia in those days but I don’t
think she suffered from dementia anyway {but her three children did} , if she had gone into a home I wouldn’t have visited nor any of her other grandchildren I don’t think out of the ten grandchildren still alive I see eight on a regular basis and I know they feel the same as me , in this life you reap what you sow if I put down my true feelings T.P would block them

 

[garnuft]

Children are human animals and just like dogs will readily connect with disabled people, not unlike guide dogs. Sadly some parents discourage their children at an early age form visiting ill people and from attending funerals, mistakenly thinking they are protecting them.

Perfect, Padraig.

Prejudice is not something we're born with. It's a learned behaviour.

'As you sow, so shall you reap'.

 

[FifiMo]

Hmmm, why question would be why the kicking? Seems a bit hypocritical given the advice that is routinely churned out on here about it being personal choice. If you can't/won't look after someone - we understand put them in a care home. I'm fed up visiting every day - oh we understand - just visit once a week/month/year! Every day this is said on here. I have never, that I recall, ever heard anyone pipe up and say - yeah actually you are being selfish/ignorant/uncaring ... nope - if that is how you feel - we understand.

Is it because he is a public figure? Is it because he was honest about what happened? is it because he did what many others do, but no one wants to admit that they're not compassionate carers 24/7? I have to say that in my experience I would say that Ian Botham is probably more in the majority than in the minority- so why the feigned shock/horror. Thousands, maybe even hundreds of thousands, of people with dementia sit at home without any contact from anyone other than the meals on wheels lady! Care homes are full of people languishing away without so much as a phone call or a card or a visit. The world has many invisibles - talked about often on here. There are even some who would be better to stay away than deliver their branch of dispassionate duty too.

So, we might be shocked to find out that someone in the public eye has acted differently to what we thought, given his public persona. Doesn't mean he is a bad person. Doesn't mean his decisions weren't well thought through or that he didn't act with the sincere best of intentions. They were however - just that - his decisions. Ones that he decided to share with the public and is being lambasted for. Oh how good it must be to sit in the ivory tower and polish our halo's eh?

Fiona

 

[garnuft]

Nobody's talking about halo's for doing the right thing.

I'm saying...if I think somebody has done the wrong thing I will say so.

As was said...he stuck his head over the parapet...I for one am happy to shoot.

No guilt monster for me....*HALO