I really need legal advice to help my father, can anyone help?

Discussion in 'Legal and financial issues' started by underwood, Oct 9, 2015.

  1. underwood

    underwood Registered User

    Oct 9, 2015
    48
    Nottingham
    #1 underwood, Oct 9, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 12, 2015
    Hi

    I need help, as does my father! actually my father is in need of a lot of help!

    Long, long story cut short. Myself and my siblings as well as my mother, have promised for as long as I can remember that neither of my parents would end up in a home. We have always promised.

    My father had a fall, had urinary and blood infection. Mother and siblings have been telling hubby and I he is a vegetable. Hubby and I have been visiting in hospital only to find he has mental capacity, can hold a conversation (briefly) but is most certainly not a vegetable!

    Fallout has occurred hubby and I are liars, he cannot hold a conversation!
    Mother is ill and cannot look after him, so she has sent him to a care home. We have facilities here to look after him. (Built for my mother whose health improved).
    Father in a very parocial area and hubby and I live 200 miles away.

    My fathers wishes are entirely governed by my mother's health. We are sick and tired of being told by hospitals and now certain members of the care home that my mother is not well and cannot look after him. There is no power of attorney!

    My father's life (what remains of it). is now being governed by my mother's health. I have stated that my father made his wishes clear that he never wanted to be in a care home. The nurse informs me tonight that he will never leave the care home as mother cannot look after him. I said that that had no basis in law and that my father is protected by the mental capacity act, he having made his wishes known prior to his fall.

    My mother having placed him in a care home, wouldn't upgrade his room, 'its not important' won't despite 3 months of us trying to engage him, offer photos, familiar items, will only visit 1/2 hour at a time per day. 'I'm not well'.
    Nurse informs us tonight despite my father requesting EVERY TIME we visit to take him away from here (hospital/care home) that my mothers rights are what matters.
    How is this possible?
    How do I get him out?
    How do I prove we can look after him?
    What does it take to get social services/assesment doctors and care home managers to speak with each other and get their fingers out? - My father is deteriorating and needs to be in a loving environment.
    What do you do?

    I love my father who is not being exercised, who has gone from cavalry twills and made to measure sports jacket to my mother's preferred George jogging bottoms and jumpers. He has been humiliated!

    Please help.
     
  2. tryingmybest

    tryingmybest Registered User

    May 22, 2015
    612
    Female
    Oh my goodness how dreadful for you all. I dont have any advice to offer but maybe someone else can help with the legalities? Just couldn't read your post and not comment at all. Thinking of you and hope someone with more experience can help. Hug for you and good luck.
     
  3. Beate

    Beate Registered User

    May 21, 2014
    11,489
    Female
    London
    You might not like to hear this, but I think you need to consider both sides.

    We are not lawyers. We cannot offer legal advice.

    What we are is carers. Some of us had to have our loved ones admitted to care homes. This is usually because we cannot cope anymore and their needs are best met in a care home. No one of us has or will take this decision lightly. But your Mum matters too and if various people tell you she cannot look after him then I would sit up and listen.

    I am sorry to say this but most people say they don't want to go into a care home. And most loved ones promise they won't let it happen. But there comes a time where it is in someone's best interest. Most care homes are safe and caring places.

    Your mother, despite her health problems, visits him every day. The length really doesn't matter, he might not remember how long it was anyway.

    I know this is all difficult for you but what you are proposing to do is ignore your mother and take your father away to live with you 200 miles away from his wife? Do you know what you might be dealing with? Just because someone can hold a short conversation doesn't mean he has mental capacity.

    I am sure you love your father and want only the best for him. Let him get settled in the care home and let them take care of him so your Mum can get better.
     
  4. underwood

    underwood Registered User

    Oct 9, 2015
    48
    Nottingham
    Beate and tryingmybest
    Thank you for your comments, my mother is visiting at the moment, but will stop!
    Her health will not improve!
    Her guilt now, is not helping her health!

    My siblings are on an offensive, 'one down lets protect the other'. We checked the visitors book, they are not visiting.

    Dad wants out! has he dementia? they are still not sure! the assesment took place Thursday, despite me asking for this to be done in 4 - 6 weeks after we brought him to us, in a familiar surrounding supported cared for 24 hours a day!

    Mum doesn't want the vegetable but over her dead body will we have him! we have suggested that her mind is not what it was, only to be shouted down.

    Dad is miserable and every time I visit 4 hours every 2 weeks, when I do not take him out he tells me I've let him down!

    Mum is entering the care home through the back door, so she doesn't have to sign in and let very one know how much she isn't visiting. - Clearly a problem for fire, but the care home are OK with this as 'mum' is not well.

    Parocial doesn't even go into it. Even the care home said she said 'The room doesn't matter' they themselves are pretty much stupified that she won't bring in reminders for him. But 'she is what matters!'

    My concern is, what about him? what about what he wishes?

    I read the mental capacity act, which states his wishes are what matters, but when it comes down to it, the MCA means nothing at all!

    I'm destraught, having promised my hands are tied, and the only option open to me is to visit my father one last time and tell him I cannot honour my promise as his wife wants him in a care home and she wont honour her promise to him!
     
  5. Beate

    Beate Registered User

    May 21, 2014
    11,489
    Female
    London
    So you are going to go in distressing your father just to make a point against your mother? I am sorry but this kind of blame game is immature. You seem to consider your father a lot but your mother not at all. I don't know the family dynamics but I hope you understand that every story has two sides and you can't know what your mother's been going through until you've been in her shoes. Plus, I am really not sure why it matters so much to you what the room is like. In a care home, the quality and empathy of the staff matters, not how pretty the curtains are.
     
  6. underwood

    underwood Registered User

    Oct 9, 2015
    48
    Nottingham
    Beate
    Totaly agree with you, the room doesn't matter. £25 per week and my mother could have got him a room, more like he was accustomed to. BUT mum is now saving every penny to make sure she has the money to have home help, to make sure she isn't put into a care home.
    I have seen both sides, trust me! I have had to tell mother and siblings the way they spoke to my father was abuse, only to be told he didn't understand 'it' won't remember!

    I trully have seen both sides. Its not pretty!

    I have seen my father spoken to like a dog, I have seen him dejected, only to be be 'normal' when not shouted at and shouted down.

    Which side do you think I should consider?
     
  7. underwood

    underwood Registered User

    Oct 9, 2015
    48
    Nottingham
    Beate

    Just to be clear I have spent several fortnights with my parents caring for my mother and her health. Sleeping on the floor for 2 weeks on one occasion, she spoke to me like dirt the entire fortnight!

    If I didn't love her I wouldn't have looked after her. God knows my siblings did't want to 'they' had jobs and couldn't take any time off work!

    I on the other hand, bought and sold 3x in two years in order to put disabled facilites on the 3rd house for my mothers deteriorating health, which improved.

    Do not assume I am a bad guy. I was looking out for both of them!
     
  8. sleepless

    sleepless Registered User

    Feb 19, 2010
    3,232
    Female
    The Sweet North
    Underwood, I can only suggest to you that you read your last paragraph and ask whether that would be the act of a loving person?
    Your father needs calm, routine and care. You are sabotaging that for him with your behaviour in my opinion.
    It may be hard for you to accept the situation, but I do hope you will consider both your parents in this.
     
  9. underwood

    underwood Registered User

    Oct 9, 2015
    48
    Nottingham
    I know you are right, I say it, I want to tell him I cannot keep my promise. But the truth is I could not, nor would I ever betray my mother!

    But I just do not know how I tell him why I can't get him out of there.

    He is constantly telling me I've let him down and it hurts so, so much. But when I tried telling the others, they told me I was a liar, he never said it and he was a vegetable!

    But why does he not have rights?
     
  10. Beate

    Beate Registered User

    May 21, 2014
    11,489
    Female
    London
    I never assumed you were. I went from what you originally said.

    Ok, so I guess she's his next of kin and will be considered most even if there is no health and welfare LPA in existence. Regarding his mental capacity, have any official tests been done or could you ask someone to do them?

    I am guessing that he won't be able to return home because of your Mum's ill health and it might not be in his best interest anyway? To be honest, I think you might have a fight on your hands trying to get him moved into your house if your Mum objects but as I said, I am really not an expert.
     
  11. ElizabethAnn

    ElizabethAnn Registered User

    Jan 4, 2014
    189
    North Hampshire
    Would 24 hour live-in care for both your Mum and Dad at their home be an option?

    Having promised our parents that we would not put them in a care home, this is what we are currently doing - along with additional care to help move Dad.

    However, having made the promise... we are aware that there may come a time when a care home is the only safe & secure option for them.

    For us it won't be a case of them not having any rights it will be more that we have to make responsible decisions for them because they are not able to.

    My best advice is that the family pull together and try and see things from each others points of view and bear in mind that you are all under a dreadful lot of strain...
     
  12. underwood

    underwood Registered User

    Oct 9, 2015
    48
    Nottingham
    Hi Beate

    " weeks ago, we gave up on mum trying to engage him with any photos, so we printed out a google streetlife image of his house.

    I said to him 'Dad if you keep on eating the next move will be home' showed him the photo of his house.

    'No, I have had years of being told what I can and cannot do there, put me in a taxi and send me to xxxx'

    As to my mother not being able to care for him, I offered to move home 5 weeks in 8 and bring them both to me for a further 2 weeks!

    We offered to convert their garage into a downstairs bedroom /bath/wetroom which would also be there for my mother when her health deteriorated! Do you know what she said?
    'No the house will be worth less, I'll never get my money back if I sell it!'
    And it is this attitude my siblings are supporting!
     
  13. sleepless

    sleepless Registered User

    Feb 19, 2010
    3,232
    Female
    The Sweet North
    The most important thing is to keep your father calm and as contented as he can be given his condition. Those of us on TP who have been caring for loved ones both at home and in care, have learned that telling the brutal truth is not always the right thing to do. Instead we use 'love lies' in the best interest of the person with dementia. For example, when my dad would ask when could he go home, I would say 'When the doctor says you are strong enough'. This would make him happy, and with this condition, that is good enough for me. Family politics and rows have no place in dementia care.
    I hope you will let things settle down and work towards your father being content and cared for in the care home, instead of waging a war over his head. Believe me, it is possible for him to live as happily as the dementia allows, in a care home, with the love and support of staff and family. You may not be able to work with your mother and siblings in this, but your mother is visiting while she can, and that is to be recognised. Long visits are not usually the best idea anyway.
    Read the fact sheets on this site, and some of the posts. Dementia causes changes, but they can be accommodated with patience and love.
     
  14. underwood

    underwood Registered User

    Oct 9, 2015
    48
    Nottingham
    I offered to do just that! With me or in their house.
     
  15. underwood

    underwood Registered User

    Oct 9, 2015
    48
    Nottingham
    Sleepless

    I agree with you, but everytime we visit my father he asks us why we are arguing with my mother - We are not - We are constantly shouted down, screamed at, barked at, etc.

    We taped it and kept on taping it, until I could talk to them no more. We have played and repalyed the tapes, what I or my hubby said does not reflect what is said in response. The response has never had any bearing to what was said and in what manner it was said.

    My mother has painted me and my hubby black, to my father! - We know because my father tells us!

    BUT we are liars, because they never said it and my father is a vegetable so he can't be believed! phone hung up!
     
  16. underwood

    underwood Registered User

    Oct 9, 2015
    48
    Nottingham
    Sleepless

    Slight problem there, I've tried it! and he looks at me and says 'Don't use your bloody bull**** on me, I'm not that far gone yet'! 4 days ago

    So sleepless what would you do?
     
  17. sleepless

    sleepless Registered User

    Feb 19, 2010
    3,232
    Female
    The Sweet North
    It seems then that your father is the victim of a grotesque tug of war, and he is not being allowed to settle in the home because of this.
    I don't know if anyone will come along with any different suggestions, -- your original post asked for legal advice, but you really need to seek that from a professional.
    Please try to leave all the trouble at the door of the care home when you visit him.
     
  18. garnuft

    garnuft Registered User

    Sep 7, 2012
    6,589
    I think your father is picking up the bad vibes and would benefit from some peace and calm around him.
     
  19. sleepless

    sleepless Registered User

    Feb 19, 2010
    3,232
    Female
    The Sweet North
    Well, I would try again. No one on this site would ever say that anything is easy with dementia care, if one thing doesn't work, try another, but always with his best interest at heart. I would not have shown my dad a street view of his house for example. To talk of going home is reassuring, but with my dad the photo would have been counter-productive to settling him in to the care home.
    If you are set on trying to remove him, I can offer you no advice on that I'm afraid.
     
  20. Tin

    Tin Registered User

    May 18, 2014
    4,829
    UK
    Sorry, I am completely naïve in this area, but will continue typing anyway if your father is continually asking to leave then shouldn't someone be listening to him at the care home and start/report Deprivation of Liberty, especially if there is no diagnosis yet. Long story short I only mention this because a friend of mine was in a similar situation and at some point a social worker and solicitor got involved. When and how this happened I have no idea, back to my naivety and so could be completely wrong, but at the very least why not check out this act and see if it is relevant to you and your father.

    If there is no way of repairing your relationship with your mother over this, then there is no hope of fulfilling your promise to your father which must be heart breaking for you, so sorry.
     

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