I need support
- Thread starter TinaT
- Start date
Thanks again everyone for the wonderful support. It is hard to keep fighting alone but now I have rallied a few resident's relatives behind me and with your support in addition, I'm ready for battle!.
Last night my friend came round with Friday and Saturday evening's local newspapers. On Friday my letter lead the letters page with a large heading 'Who will save our Care Homes?' and they had printed my long letter in full. My friend said she had never seen such a long letter in the letters page! (Always have been 'long winded!')
On Saturday there was a full report from one of their reporters in the local newspaper with quotes from my letter. It was headed ' Major Review Launched Into Council's Last Two Care Homes' The reporter had interviewed the Director of Social Services (salary of £116K per year) who stated "I can give a cast iron promise that people who are in these homes will continue to live there for as long as they want".
Today at the Care Home ALL the staff came and thanked me for the letter and another resident's daughter said she will come along to the meeting tomorrow night where we can speak to the Councillor responsible for this review. So three of us, one son, one daughter and myself are now going to the meeting. I've also got permission from 4 other resident's families to speak on their behalf at the meeting.
We will be asking some very hard questions of this councillor. For example:
*What reason is causing you to instigate this major review in view of the fact that Director of Social Services has stated in the local newpaper of Saturday 2nd July, "I can give a cast iron promise that people who are in these homes will continue to live there for as long as they want".
*Can you as the lead councillor in this review, categorically give this statement by the Director od SS your agreement and assure us that residents will not be moved at some future date?
*Obviously you must have some changes in mind or you would not be conducting this review. Second guessing these changes is problematic as we have no information whatsoever about any changes you are thinking of but, in view of the review and the 'concrete promise' that residents will not be moved, what will happen if you decide for example to change the use of the building but still allow existing residents to live there i.e., if it became a respite centre, or a day care facility? This would not be a suitable arrangement for our relatives who need very specialist, intensive, 24 hour care in a very stable environment.
We appreciate that the ways of caring for the disabled change as government policies change. We understand that the government has implemented policies to ensure that more and more disabled people are to be cared for in their own home setting but by the very nature of dementia, which our relative suffer from, this will not always be possible, no matter what government policies are in place. So we are at a loss to understand why you are considering “the current and future demand and capacity required across the LA” with regard to the above care homes which specialize in residential dementia care . Are you on the headlong path to privatise our health and care services and using the above phrase to justify this?
*Why are you saying that the review is necessary to ensure 'value for money' when surely you already have yearly breakdowns of the costs year in and year out for many years? You already know the alternatives to running the two care homes and surely must have already done a breakdown of costs between placing people in private care homes and placing them in council run care homes so what will the review achieve that you do not already know?
*In view of the fact that we are constantly told there is an increasingly aging population, have you not already got facts and figures which tell you what the future demography and demand for such facilities as these two homes will be without the upset to us relatives and prospective upset to residents this review has and will cause?
If anyone here on TP can think of other questions I should be asking, please do let me know.
xxTinaT
Last night my friend came round with Friday and Saturday evening's local newspapers. On Friday my letter lead the letters page with a large heading 'Who will save our Care Homes?' and they had printed my long letter in full. My friend said she had never seen such a long letter in the letters page! (Always have been 'long winded!')
On Saturday there was a full report from one of their reporters in the local newspaper with quotes from my letter. It was headed ' Major Review Launched Into Council's Last Two Care Homes' The reporter had interviewed the Director of Social Services (salary of £116K per year) who stated "I can give a cast iron promise that people who are in these homes will continue to live there for as long as they want".
Today at the Care Home ALL the staff came and thanked me for the letter and another resident's daughter said she will come along to the meeting tomorrow night where we can speak to the Councillor responsible for this review. So three of us, one son, one daughter and myself are now going to the meeting. I've also got permission from 4 other resident's families to speak on their behalf at the meeting.
We will be asking some very hard questions of this councillor. For example:
*What reason is causing you to instigate this major review in view of the fact that Director of Social Services has stated in the local newpaper of Saturday 2nd July, "I can give a cast iron promise that people who are in these homes will continue to live there for as long as they want".
*Can you as the lead councillor in this review, categorically give this statement by the Director od SS your agreement and assure us that residents will not be moved at some future date?
*Obviously you must have some changes in mind or you would not be conducting this review. Second guessing these changes is problematic as we have no information whatsoever about any changes you are thinking of but, in view of the review and the 'concrete promise' that residents will not be moved, what will happen if you decide for example to change the use of the building but still allow existing residents to live there i.e., if it became a respite centre, or a day care facility? This would not be a suitable arrangement for our relatives who need very specialist, intensive, 24 hour care in a very stable environment.
We appreciate that the ways of caring for the disabled change as government policies change. We understand that the government has implemented policies to ensure that more and more disabled people are to be cared for in their own home setting but by the very nature of dementia, which our relative suffer from, this will not always be possible, no matter what government policies are in place. So we are at a loss to understand why you are considering “the current and future demand and capacity required across the LA” with regard to the above care homes which specialize in residential dementia care . Are you on the headlong path to privatise our health and care services and using the above phrase to justify this?
*Why are you saying that the review is necessary to ensure 'value for money' when surely you already have yearly breakdowns of the costs year in and year out for many years? You already know the alternatives to running the two care homes and surely must have already done a breakdown of costs between placing people in private care homes and placing them in council run care homes so what will the review achieve that you do not already know?
*In view of the fact that we are constantly told there is an increasingly aging population, have you not already got facts and figures which tell you what the future demography and demand for such facilities as these two homes will be without the upset to us relatives and prospective upset to residents this review has and will cause?
If anyone here on TP can think of other questions I should be asking, please do let me know.
xxTinaT
Here's my suggestion....
Will you please confirm that you understand and accept that you have a Duty of Care obligation to the current residents in the Care Home and that such a review is not always about value for money but the quality of the services which are required by individuals with specialist, 24/7, nursing needs that can only be delivered in a Care Home or similar setting.
Will you please confirm that you understand and accept that you have a Duty of Care obligation to the current residents in the Care Home and that such a review is not always about value for money but the quality of the services which are required by individuals with specialist, 24/7, nursing needs that can only be delivered in a Care Home or similar setting.
Sorry, Tina – been a bit sporadic around TP of late. You know where I am if just to ‘boost numbers’ ... otherwise I will watch out for the fireworks over F*******
With cynical head on, my question would be – how much is this review (in terms of both finance and resource) costing to rubber stamp what the council have probably already decided anyway? Would it not be kinder to announce the decision (if it needs to be announced) without consultation and a lot of unnecessary worry for all concerned, preferably with alternative means to support these vulnerable people already drafted and put forward to all concerned at that point?
Or is the purpose of consultation for other people (i.e. concerned relatives/friends/carers other than those being paid extortionate amounts to undertake the review) to come up with ideas for alternative means of caring for these very vulnerable people which will no doubt take several more committees and LA accountants to determine? Grrr....... ‘Thinking things through’ seems to be a skill sorely missing in society at the moment?
I get soooooooooooooo cross – as you know – about a lot of LA bureaucracy (amongst other things) .... all you should be worrying about is Ken and you – it is just so unfair these things are going on to make the heartache even harder .....
With you in spirit if not by your side, love Karen, x
With cynical head on, my question would be – how much is this review (in terms of both finance and resource) costing to rubber stamp what the council have probably already decided anyway? Would it not be kinder to announce the decision (if it needs to be announced) without consultation and a lot of unnecessary worry for all concerned, preferably with alternative means to support these vulnerable people already drafted and put forward to all concerned at that point?
Or is the purpose of consultation for other people (i.e. concerned relatives/friends/carers other than those being paid extortionate amounts to undertake the review
) to come up with ideas for alternative means of caring for these very vulnerable people which will no doubt take several more committees and LA accountants to determine? Grrr....... ‘Thinking things through’ seems to be a skill sorely missing in society at the moment? I get soooooooooooooo cross – as you know – about a lot of LA bureaucracy (amongst other things)
.... all you should be worrying about is Ken and you – it is just so unfair these things are going on to make the heartache even harder ..... With you in spirit if not by your side, love Karen, x
With cynical head on, my question would be – how much is this review (in terms of both finance and resource) costing to rubber stamp what the council have probably already decided anyway?
I think this gets to the nub of what I really do feel Karen. Decisions have already been made and this 'review' is to blow smoke in relative's faces.
You are right Karen, I've enough to do keeping Ken happy and helping my elderly mother to live independantly.
But I just can't stand injustice and I feel very strongly that to send a 'review' letter to relatives many of whom are in their eighties themselves, is cruel, causing stress and worry and very unkind and I feel compelled to fight it, even though I think decisions have already been made and 'rubber' stamped.
xxTinaT
I think this gets to the nub of what I really do feel Karen. Decisions have already been made and this 'review' is to blow smoke in relative's faces.
You are right Karen, I've enough to do keeping Ken happy and helping my elderly mother to live independantly.
But I just can't stand injustice and I feel very strongly that to send a 'review' letter to relatives many of whom are in their eighties themselves, is cruel, causing stress and worry and very unkind and I feel compelled to fight it, even though I think decisions have already been made and 'rubber' stamped.
xxTinaT
Last week I phoned the Members Secretariat at the Town Hall to find out how I could meet the Councillor who is responsible for the review. I asked for an appointment. Later that day they phoned me back to tell me she had a surgery tonight (4th ) at St Thomas School and that I didn't need an appointment but to turn up between 6pm and 7pm. I told a resident's son about this and arranged to meet him there. I also told another resident's daughter and she also said she would come.
I arrived at 6.15 to find that she was not there as it was not her night! Another Councillor was there who told me they rotate their surgeries between them!
I've sent an e mail to the Councillor I wanted to see telling her of the misinformation from the Secretariat and also enclosing an attachment of a letter I'd already prepared. The Councillor I saw said he was seeing her tomorrow so would give it to her. I've just e mailed her the letter to make sure she gets it.
I'm so angry about this misinformation and that I've caused two relatives to travel quite a way to join me in the wild goose chase!
xxTinaT
I arrived at 6.15 to find that she was not there as it was not her night! Another Councillor was there who told me they rotate their surgeries between them!
I've sent an e mail to the Councillor I wanted to see telling her of the misinformation from the Secretariat and also enclosing an attachment of a letter I'd already prepared. The Councillor I saw said he was seeing her tomorrow so would give it to her. I've just e mailed her the letter to make sure she gets it.
I'm so angry about this misinformation and that I've caused two relatives to travel quite a way to join me in the wild goose chase!
xxTinaT
Tina you mentioned the word ‘cruel’. This is becoming APPALLING!!!!!!
I know no-one is perfect – but ‘mistakes and misinformation’ just cannot be tolerated in these circumstances. There are a lot of well paid people in govt, LAs and the not-for-profit sector who really need to wake up to their responsibilities to the people they are meant to serve and understand ‘little mistakes’ (to them) cause great distress to people in very sensitive circumstances. (Ok – not all of them – some of them are brilliant!!!! But you know what I mean).
I am sooooo sorry you and other concerned relatives have ended up on this wild goose chase. All I can think of tonight is have you contacted the Relatives and Residents Association – see what support they can give? http://relres.org/
Look – you know I am not a huggy person – but you need support in so many ways right now – so hope you will accept a big virtual {{{hug}}} as best I can think of at the moment.
Love, Karen, x
I know no-one is perfect – but ‘mistakes and misinformation’ just cannot be tolerated in these circumstances. There are a lot of well paid people in govt, LAs and the not-for-profit sector who really need to wake up to their responsibilities to the people they are meant to serve and understand ‘little mistakes’ (to them) cause great distress to people in very sensitive circumstances.
(Ok – not all of them – some of them are brilliant!!!! But you know what I mean).I am sooooo sorry you and other concerned relatives have ended up on this wild goose chase. All I can think of tonight is have you contacted the Relatives and Residents Association – see what support they can give? http://relres.org/
Look – you know I am not a huggy person – but you need support in so many ways right now – so hope you will accept a big virtual {{{hug}}} as best I can think of at the moment.
Love, Karen, x
Tina,
It is indeed unacceptable. It's also cruel, and it's appallingly unacceptable.
That's what is becoming the norm in our world.
I've spent more hours than I would like to describe today, discussing 'things' with the NMC (Nursing and Midwifery Council). By the end of today, I began to understand more than ever how the Original Mistake (a variation on the theme of original sin) is perpetuated ad nauseam, and ad infinitum. The first mistake came from a case officer. I complained about that. The case officer stood her ground and would not acknowledge any mistake had been made. It was so obvious - and yes, I can show that mistake was made.
But the same gross mistake has now been duplicated by the Department Manager - who has obviously been primed by the case officer. The Dept Manager is 'managing' to do as little as possible ................. just to go along with the case officer's mistaken validation of the original mistake.
That's the way it works now in this ridiculous world of care.
There used to be something called Personal Responsibility, and each and every employee could be called to account for his/her errors.
That's all long gone. And with it went the caring about one's own responsibility for each and every action.
It is indeed unacceptable. It's also cruel, and it's appallingly unacceptable.
That's what is becoming the norm in our world.
I've spent more hours than I would like to describe today, discussing 'things' with the NMC (Nursing and Midwifery Council). By the end of today, I began to understand more than ever how the Original Mistake (a variation on the theme of original sin) is perpetuated ad nauseam, and ad infinitum. The first mistake came from a case officer. I complained about that. The case officer stood her ground and would not acknowledge any mistake had been made. It was so obvious - and yes, I can show that mistake was made.
But the same gross mistake has now been duplicated by the Department Manager - who has obviously been primed by the case officer. The Dept Manager is 'managing' to do as little as possible ................. just to go along with the case officer's mistaken validation of the original mistake.
That's the way it works now in this ridiculous world of care.
There used to be something called Personal Responsibility, and each and every employee could be called to account for his/her errors.
That's all long gone. And with it went the caring about one's own responsibility for each and every action.
I got an e mail reply from the councillor to my e mail this evening:
I am writing to confirm receipt of your letter. My sincere apologies for any confusion caused but the Crompton surgery is held as a service for the residents of Crompton ward to deal with ward casework. Regarding the questions in your letter, i will come back to you in due course and would of course be happy to meet with the relatives of residents at the ******Care Home (name deleted by me) at a more appropriate time and in an appropriate setting.
Some comfort I don't think!But at least I know she has my letter and will have to address the concerns in it sooner or later. There were seven relatives names and addresses at the bottom of the letter. Not bad going for a couple of days of my talking to them
xxTinaT
I am writing to confirm receipt of your letter. My sincere apologies for any confusion caused but the Crompton surgery is held as a service for the residents of Crompton ward to deal with ward casework. Regarding the questions in your letter, i will come back to you in due course and would of course be happy to meet with the relatives of residents at the ******Care Home (name deleted by me) at a more appropriate time and in an appropriate setting.
Some comfort I don't think!But at least I know she has my letter and will have to address the concerns in it sooner or later. There were seven relatives names and addresses at the bottom of the letter. Not bad going for a couple of days of my talking to them
xxTinaT
I noticed in my local paper that the Council were reviewing library services and threatening 16 branch libraries just as they are threatening the two care homes. Someone got a petition up and managed 16 thousand signatures. The council have said now that they are making a second 'review' of the library services.
So if that's the way I have to go so be it. I've written a petition:
***** and ***** care homes , are the only two remaining care homes under local authority management. They are specialist dementia care homes and are now under review because of the cuts imposed by the government.
The residents of these homes suffer from severe, late stage dementia and need the specialist care which they are currently receiving. Some of them have been successfully placed in these homes after being asked to leave privately run homes because of their difficult behaviour.
A few residents are 90+ and many are in their 80’s. All the residents live in a frightened, confusing and terrifying world of their own. These two care homes have been their home for many years and the staff members are ‘their family’.
Please sign our petition to keep these two essential homes for our vulnerable, elderly people who cannot speak for themselves.
I the undersigned want ****** Local Authority to maintain the current level of services in the above homes.
I've rung around the local big supermarkets for permission to present my petition to the public. On Thursday I go to Morrison's supermarket foyer and Saturday Asda. More to come as I manage to get in touch with managers.
It is hard and tough to start the boulder rolling up the hill - hope I can get others on board to help and hope that the public think that care homes are more important than branch libraries
xxTinaT
So if that's the way I have to go so be it. I've written a petition:
***** and ***** care homes , are the only two remaining care homes under local authority management. They are specialist dementia care homes and are now under review because of the cuts imposed by the government.
The residents of these homes suffer from severe, late stage dementia and need the specialist care which they are currently receiving. Some of them have been successfully placed in these homes after being asked to leave privately run homes because of their difficult behaviour.
A few residents are 90+ and many are in their 80’s. All the residents live in a frightened, confusing and terrifying world of their own. These two care homes have been their home for many years and the staff members are ‘their family’.
Please sign our petition to keep these two essential homes for our vulnerable, elderly people who cannot speak for themselves.
I the undersigned want ****** Local Authority to maintain the current level of services in the above homes.
I've rung around the local big supermarkets for permission to present my petition to the public. On Thursday I go to Morrison's supermarket foyer and Saturday Asda. More to come as I manage to get in touch with managers.
It is hard and tough to start the boulder rolling up the hill - hope I can get others on board to help and hope that the public think that care homes are more important than branch libraries
xxTinaT
My shoulders may be kna*ked but my backside is broad, If I can help to push your boulder let me know! Love Maureen.x.
Hi Tina – I hope everyone gets behind you on this like the support shown throughout the UK (and beyond!) for Winnie’s recent project. For me, this is not because it is happening on my doorstep ... it’s very much about being a voice for the voiceless – and unlike me (who can only ‘shout’ under the banner of ‘campaigning’) this is so personal to you and so pertinent to Ken’s care, so you know you can call on me to do what I can .... 16,000 signatures – humph! Let’s beat that!
I know I mentioned a ‘paper petition’ recently on a different matter, but am clueless about any rules and regs about implementing how to go about getting people to ‘sign up’. Just thinking aloud: How are you going to ‘loiter’ in a supermarket foyer and not look like a market researcher most people try to dodge? Have you got a sash/badge? Sparkly clipboard? Logo? Slogan? Project name? Can people literally stand on public streets at any undetermined time and ‘tout’ for support? (I’ve never been caught for loitering with intent yet so don’t want to blot my copy-book! ... but if it’s all for a good cause I might be persuaded )
Quite a lot of ideas at ‘local level’ which I will PM you with. But hope lots of other people might come up with suggestions/ideas.....
Your relentless ‘fight’ for your hubby (let alone love for him) and those like him leaves me in awe. Bless him, and bless you.
Love, Karen, x
(PS: I'm actually quite sad about library closures too .... but it is a matter of perspective right now? Been batting on for years they never opened evenings and weekends when a lot of people could actually access them anyway .... I digress! )
I know I mentioned a ‘paper petition’ recently on a different matter, but am clueless about any rules and regs about implementing how to go about getting people to ‘sign up’. Just thinking aloud: How are you going to ‘loiter’ in a supermarket foyer and not look like a market researcher most people try to dodge?
Have you got a sash/badge? Sparkly clipboard? Logo? Slogan? Project name? Can people literally stand on public streets at any undetermined time and ‘tout’ for support? (I’ve never been caught for loitering with intent yet so don’t want to blot my copy-book! ... but if it’s all for a good cause I might be persuaded )Quite a lot of ideas at ‘local level’ which I will PM you with. But hope lots of other people might come up with suggestions/ideas.....
Your relentless ‘fight’ for your hubby (let alone love for him) and those like him leaves me in awe. Bless him, and bless you.
Love, Karen, x
(PS: I'm actually quite sad about library closures too .... but it is a matter of perspective right now? Been batting on for years they never opened evenings and weekends when a lot of people could actually access them anyway .... I digress!
)
Hello Tina , Postive Vibes from me for The Start of " The Petition " in the Supermarkets & am sure you will do very well there
Just a " Quick Boost " for you Tina ............. Over the few Year or so 1 or 2 L A
Homes in Sheffield ( inculding a Specialist Dementia /Altz N Home ) were under "Reveiw " & they have been Saved ! ! By Locals like yourself Tina in Fighting to Save them !
Best Wishes in " Pushing the Boulder Up Hill "
Take Care & Love to you & Ken
Love & Hugs Love Grove x x
& am sure you will do very well there Just a " Quick Boost " for you Tina ............. Over the few Year or so 1 or 2 L A
Homes in Sheffield ( inculding a Specialist Dementia /Altz N Home ) were under "Reveiw " & they have been Saved ! ! By Locals like yourself Tina in Fighting to Save them !
Best Wishes in " Pushing the Boulder Up Hill "
Take Care & Love to you & Ken
Love & Hugs Love Grove x x
Well, I went to my local LINKs today for help and got the 'hands down'. No help from there!
I start my petition tomorrow. I've already this afternoon distributed the petition amongs the staff and the one relative who was there at the care home. I looked at Ken and at some of the other residents and thought to myself 'Well at least I can do this for you'. My darling man is so vulnerable, so defenceless in the middle of all this!
I've spent all evening making my banner, packing my little garden table and folding chairs into the car, along with the many sheets of the petition. Apparently if I get 4,000 signatures, this gives me the right to speak at a full council meeting! If I get less than this number of people, I can present the petition to the mayor at the full council meeting but not speak.
It is hard to keep pushing the boulder up the hill on your own. I've had a hard day today where I've found out the friends who will come to Morrisons supermarket and other supermarkets at later dates, stand with me getting signatures on my petition tomorrow and on Saturday at Asda, and the ones who duck out with excuses. I'm so grateful to the managers of these big supermarkets, they have been very, very kind to me.
A recent petition campaigning on 'Save our 16 Branch Libraries' has forced the council to think again about this by getting people to sign their petition.
Councillors have hard choices, there is no doubt about that but they do have CHOICES!! To cut the soft 'underbelly' comprising of people like my darling Ken is an unforgivable choice to make. I say 'soft underbelly' becaue Ken and the residents of his care home are the voiceless, most vulernable of our community. To impose cuts which change the lives of these people so dramatically, so utterly, is unforgivable! Many residents do not even have regular visitors and the care home has been their only family for many years.
Councillors know which side their bread is buttered on. To destroy the care home for people such as Ken and the few relatives who are able to fight, is the easly option as opposed to cutting 16 branch libraries and upsetting thousands of their constituents!!
xxTinaT
I start my petition tomorrow. I've already this afternoon distributed the petition amongs the staff and the one relative who was there at the care home. I looked at Ken and at some of the other residents and thought to myself 'Well at least I can do this for you'. My darling man is so vulnerable, so defenceless in the middle of all this!
I've spent all evening making my banner, packing my little garden table and folding chairs into the car, along with the many sheets of the petition. Apparently if I get 4,000 signatures, this gives me the right to speak at a full council meeting! If I get less than this number of people, I can present the petition to the mayor at the full council meeting but not speak.
It is hard to keep pushing the boulder up the hill on your own. I've had a hard day today where I've found out the friends who will come to Morrisons supermarket and other supermarkets at later dates, stand with me getting signatures on my petition tomorrow and on Saturday at Asda, and the ones who duck out with excuses. I'm so grateful to the managers of these big supermarkets, they have been very, very kind to me.
A recent petition campaigning on 'Save our 16 Branch Libraries' has forced the council to think again about this by getting people to sign their petition.
Councillors have hard choices, there is no doubt about that but they do have CHOICES!! To cut the soft 'underbelly' comprising of people like my darling Ken is an unforgivable choice to make. I say 'soft underbelly' becaue Ken and the residents of his care home are the voiceless, most vulernable of our community. To impose cuts which change the lives of these people so dramatically, so utterly, is unforgivable! Many residents do not even have regular visitors and the care home has been their only family for many years.
Councillors know which side their bread is buttered on. To destroy the care home for people such as Ken and the few relatives who are able to fight, is the easly option as opposed to cutting 16 branch libraries and upsetting thousands of their constituents!!
xxTinaT
Tina
Wow - such progress since I last read this thread and congratulations for starting all the action off. I hope your petition is successful and lots of local people start to make their voices heard. Is it also possible for you to set up an online petition too? There is a website as I recall where you can do these - at the very least so that we can all contribute and support this cause too, if nothing else at a distance.
If you are interested in doing this and can't find the place then let me know and i'll google for ya!
Fiona
Wow - such progress since I last read this thread and congratulations for starting all the action off. I hope your petition is successful and lots of local people start to make their voices heard. Is it also possible for you to set up an online petition too? There is a website as I recall where you can do these - at the very least so that we can all contribute and support this cause too, if nothing else at a distance.
If you are interested in doing this and can't find the place then let me know and i'll google for ya!
Fiona
God you are an Angel Fifimo!
Cound you get the link for me. I'd be so grateful as I'm exhausted now and wouldn't take it in tonight.
xxTinaT
Cound you get the link for me. I'd be so grateful as I'm exhausted now and wouldn't take it in tonight.
xxTinaT
No sooner said than done! This site seems to be the one that is hosting most recent petitions and seems easy to set up.
http://www.petitiononline.co.uk/petitions
Fiona
http://www.petitiononline.co.uk/petitions
Fiona
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