I need help - the brother I was worried about is planning on putting my mu in a home against her wi

Discussion in 'Legal and financial issues' started by HelenC23, Dec 4, 2018.

  1. HelenC23

    HelenC23 Registered User

    Dec 1, 2018
    #1 HelenC23, Dec 4, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2018
    Hello again

    I wrote a few days ago about my bullying brother and him registering POA with all the banks without consulting me the carer and other POA

    I tried to explain about his personality problems and lack of empathy and his fixed, obsessive ideas whereby he sees details and no context.I was told by one member not to go on about my mother's capacity and not to discuss my siblings personality issues

    However it is because they are, the way they are, that they are acting, the way they are ( one brother and one sister)

    My brother who lives 300 miles away and went years without seeing mum is now popping in for an hour once every 6 months has decided with my sister, again who does not care for my mum and pops I every 3 weeks for an hour , that my mum s health has deteriorated and that we all should now consider putting her in a home and he asked-

    What should we do with the dog ?

    He has only had POA for 3 months and he promised mum as did I that this would not happen

    My mum has a large estate and he has an eye on his inheritance I believe

    I don't care about any inheritance I want mum to be happy

    I am my mums carer for the past 18 months , I live with mum and I work full time

    I make sure mum has breakfast is all OK for the carer who visits at about 1100 and the again at 1300 for an hour each time and then I am home by 5

    I make sure she has lovely food, is safe and warm

    She also has a cleaner and two gardeners , so she has lots of help

    I also make sure mum has lots of lovely experiences , taking her out several times a week in the evening and daily in the summer , to walk or go to the garden centre or friends etc

    At the weekends I take her out to all sorts of lovely places

    She has lots of interaction with other people, she is happy and we'll cared for and has all her medical needs met

    My brother and sister do nothing and now they have decided that mum should be in a home and the dog needs rehoming
  2. HelenC23

    HelenC23 Registered User

    Dec 1, 2018
    I do video and take pictures of mum daily and have done for a while as I sensed this would happen

    What right does my brother have to decide things like this

    My mother wants to go to a solicitor and get him removed as health POA

    I will book an appointment with them tomorrow

    My mother is happy and we'll cared for in her home why can't my brother just leave her alone

    She is very visible in the community with lots of friends and support

    She has plenty of funds to pay for extra care at home

    But my brother refuses to allow her investments to be used for thus purpose and insists she pays for the carers out of her pension

    I have spoken to the financial advisor about this and he is not happy at all about the situation aNd says he will now not take instructions from either of us

    I am heart broken , I don't understand and I need to know how I can get mum and advocate so that she can stay in her home, renovate it if necessary and use her investments for these purposes

    She would die within 3 months of going in a home

    My brother knows nothing about caring for my mum, mum has lived in her home for 30 years and many of the neighbours who have known her all that time did not even know this son existed

    Now all of a sudden he is an expert on the care mum shpuld receive and where

    Please help me to support my mum
  3. canary

    canary Registered User

    Feb 25, 2014
    South coast
    Hi @HelenC23

    If your brother is after her inheritance and this is why he wants to put her in a home then he is in for a nasty shock, because the payment for her care home will come out of her savings - and the payment is not cheap. If he tries to transfer her savings to himself the Local Authority will be on to him for Deprivation of Assets.
  4. Sam Luvit

    Sam Luvit Registered User

    Oct 19, 2016
    East Sussex
    Hi @HelenC23

    First I wouId check if the POA is set up so the attorneys can act independently of each other, or if there has to be agreement. Do the other attorneys agree with your brother registering it with the banks?

    You could point out to him, that by your mum going into a home, the “inheritance” will be spent on her care home fees, until the value drops below the level where help wouId be available from the government (I’m assuming you are in the UK) & that once in the system, all monies will need to be accounted for.

    That might be enough to stop this from going ahead in the immediate future

    I suggest you arrange for an assessment to see if your mum is deemed to “need” a care home & then work from there
  5. HelenC23

    HelenC23 Registered User

    Dec 1, 2018
    #5 HelenC23, Dec 4, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2018
    I am the only other attorney and mum has had lots of assessments and she is deemed as being fine at home with care increased as necessary , my brother can act independently but I can then cancel his instructions

    She is mobile but frail , she is in her 80s but she comes out with me shopping and to the park and garden centre etc

    I did not agree with him registering mums accounts 300 miles away and denying her access to her accounts, without telling me , he just told me he has a legal, right to do this and I should stop wasting his time.

    I can register also but it will take a while as don't have week day off for a while, it was very underhand what he did

    If i did start cancelling his instructions - as i can , if i knew what he was up to - that would be very messy would nt it ?, my mum wants him removed as POA she says it's is all about his family and the money for him

    I thought I should book her in to see a solictor tomorrow and even escalate to OPG on the solicitors advice .?
  6. HelenC23

    HelenC23 Registered User

    Dec 1, 2018
    Canary I do not understand his motivation

    My mum is quite well off and if she had no money I don't think he would be at all interested in getting involved

    My mother would die very quickly without her dog, cat and home and all the lovely things she continues to enjoy now , and all the social interactions and not to mention her garden

    I want her to have her home adapted , slightly renovated to allow a downstairs bedroom and her investments to pay for more care as necessary

    I'm guessing he thinks a nursing home would be cheaper

    However, he has not discussed this with mum

    I have been so upset and no one ever told me that siblings could be so nasty

    Not one sibling has ever thanked me for caring for their mum so well, my brother has told me he wants me out the way so he can make all the decisions , as apparently it would be easier

    I have that recorded on tape so he can't deny it
  7. Sam Luvit

    Sam Luvit Registered User

    Oct 19, 2016
    East Sussex
    Hi @HelenC23

    If you are both able to act independently, then he can contact the bank & you can cancel that, but it is messy. If you can’t get time off, at least write to the banks, state that you are also an attorney & at this time your mum is considering removing him as an attorney, so can they please put a temporary hold on any action. Give a timetable that you can stick to, state you will contact them again within “14 days” ( put it on your calendar & contact them with an update).

    If your mum has capacity, if she wants to stop him being an attorney, then make an appointment with her solicitor, explain the situation & start things moving. The solicitor will talk to her in her own to check that this is what she wants. The solicitor will want to be sure you are not coercing your mum (no offence, but the solicitor needs to look after your mums interests first & for-most)

    An LPA can be registered immediately or when capacity is lost. Your brother will need to show why he has decided to register it now & take control of bank accounts. He may be entitled to do so, but the accounts are to be run “in her best interests”

    You are not “wasting his time” in questioning this. As an attorney you have a legal obligation to ensure your mum is looked after, that includes questioning the transfer of control of bank accounts from your mum to him

    Unfortunately if you read enough on here, you will see that the full time care often falls to one sibling with other siblings & “friends” either making it difficult or impossible for the main Carer (in this case you), to get anything done easily.

    As your mum has been assessed as able to live at home with carers, there is no “need” for a care home at this time. Your siblings visit occasionally, you see her daily.

    Try (yes I know that’s going to be hard), but try not to get into a fight over it. Tell your siblings that your mum has been assessed. She has been assessed as able to live at home. She has care in place. Remind them that any money is for her care & must be accounted for. Any expenditures outside normal historic parameters will be examined as possible “depravation of assets” & wouId be repayable.

    Your mum can use her money to pay for adaptations for her benefit. It can’t be used to buy someone a new car (unless she previously bought them a new car every x number of years)

    Lots of luck :)
  8. HelenC23

    HelenC23 Registered User

    Dec 1, 2018
    #8 HelenC23, Dec 5, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
    Sam thank you

    That is probably the most supportive and informative advice I have had
    I really appreciate it

    You know even if the solicitor took over my LPA for finance as well
    I would prefer that to my brother acting like this

    I do not want to lose the health LPA though and mum wants him off that

    I love my mum so much and I am becoming like a tiger daughter , constantly fighting on her behalf and 90% of the time the fights have been initiated by these two siblings EG initially with the solicitor when he refused to be replacement attorney aNd he said mum had no capacity to sign a POA with me as main POA

    Then after when he had beaten mum down enough that she agreed to make him equal and then he wanted the solicitor to get on with it - because he apparently felt she now had capacity !

    Then again with the care agency when he instructed them to come in at 7 am to wash and dress her - when she said no and she dresses herself

    I got into so many fights because he has caused so much trouble along with the sister

    My brother knows nothing about my mums care needs, he hardly sees her , has never looked after her but felt his opinion trumped mine - despite me being the full time carer and also professionally qualified in the area

    He should never have been allowed to have POA

    Luckily I tape all his conversations and keep the abusive emails and they have been extensive

    The bullying campaign he has waged against me is unbelievable and abusive

    I implore other siblings who do no care and see the parents well cared for to say thank you to the sibling who cares and don't abuse them

    Mums neighbours , her friends, even the consultant say to me I do an amazing job of caring for my mum , I'm not boasting I get no thanks from family but just trying to share with you all that I do have evidence that mum is well cared for

    Thank you again sam , I will ring the solicitor tomorrow and write to the bank xx

    And to top it off he even had the cheek to consult the other siblings about rehoming the love of my life my beautiful big dog, who is mine and mums, you can't make it up ,

    He did not send this email to me another sibling did !!!
  9. concerned4

    concerned4 Registered User

    Jun 3, 2012
    Empathise with your position but as Sam has said key is to get your mother assessed to see whether she still has capacity, having been in a similar situation to yourself, dad was diagnosed late 2010, sibling moved in with dad in 2012 as I was working away from home, in this time my sibling & her daughter managed to convince dad I was not acting in his best interests, long story short managed to have POA removed from me, they went to consultant who deemed dad did have capacity a 20 minute assessment, more or less straight after this she had dad sign two documents one stating that she was to have the house, the other to state that she was to receive all the contents!

    Sibling was asked to resign by OPG due to financial abuse in 2016 after having free reign to "manage to remove" in excess of £200k in this period, dad is now in a care home costing around £1400 per week, his house had to be sold to pay for his care home fees.

    Wish you well & feel for you but the key to having your brothers removal by your mum will be whether she still has capacity.
  10. Jessbow

    Jessbow Registered User

    I am not absolutely sure, but a POA is a document naming one or more people as your representatives. If you revoke it, does it not revoke the content/purpose for all the nominees?

    The key is to establish Mums capacity to a) make such a decision and b) her ability capacity to create a new POA naming just you.

    Does sound a bit like an aggrieved 3rd sibling [who is not a POA by the sound of it] is stirring the pot a bit
  11. witts1973

    witts1973 Registered User

    Jun 20, 2018
    Leamington Spa
  12. love.dad.but..

    love.dad.but.. Registered User

    Jan 16, 2014
    #12 love.dad.but.., Dec 5, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
    If your mum is considered to have mental capacity to revoke her health poa and do a new one as you are suggesting she has asked you to help her with then she has the ability to do the same for her finance poa. It will leave her without any poa for a while though while a new one is prepared and registered. If she has capacity your brother cannot place her in her home against her will.
  13. Duggies-girl

    Duggies-girl Registered User

    Sep 6, 2017
    Hi @HelenC23 I looked after my dad for over a year while my sibling ignored the situation. It was only when he found that I had POA for dad that he became interested in dads welfare. I received no thanks for that, just concern that I had access to dads money which I don't as dad is still in charge of it.

    As for POA for health and welfare, I am very glad that I have that because dad has cancer and needed an oesophageal stent. My sibling was very much against dad having a stent for some unfathomable reason but as dad would have died without it I made sure that we followed the doctors advice and he had the stent and eight months on is doing very well and has a good quality of life.

    I have also been advised by my sibling that dad should not have radiotherapy if offered but dad and I have agreed that we will follow his oncologists advice and if it is offered I will make sure that he gets it and hopefully he may get many more months of good quality life.

    As for your dog, he is yours and nothing to do with your siblings.

    You are the one doing the caring so stand your ground. Good luck and best wishes.
  14. deepetshopboy

    deepetshopboy Registered User

    Jul 7, 2008
    Get the dog registered in your name so it cant be rehomed
    Get your mum assesed again and get evidence that your mum doesn’t need or want to go into a home and get letters supporting you from gp friends
    Surely he hasnt got the power to put your mum in a home id be getting legal advice asap from a solicitor or cab
    Good luck
  15. concerned4

    concerned4 Registered User

    Jun 3, 2012
    Dad has now a guardian appointed to look after finances, the police asked the guardian to ask sibling to justify taking money from dad, on two occasions he has made an appointment for her to come in to discuss , she never turned up to either the OPG only asked her to resign, knowing that she took in excess of £100k (figure is actually over £200k) still don't quite know how they didn't pursue her.
  16. Savannah

    Savannah Registered User

    Nov 25, 2018
    I have not read all the answers, but as long as your Mum has capacity and the LPA's are registered directly with the Office of the Public Guardian, they can be contacted directly to cancel the LPA and this will be done unless a note has been made on the file of a suspected cancellation of LPA. However, it would be important that your Mum gets her LPA re-done and to ensure not overturned pay for a private GP to both assess mental capacity and witness. If concerns have been raised then they will instruct their safeguarding team. You are also able to contact the Office of the Public Guardian if you have concerns that the person is abusing their position, though they are not necessarily able to act until such a point as capacity has been deemed as lost. You can phone OPG and have a general chat. I suspect I will be fighting too to keep my loved one in their home as long as possible, which Social Services appear to support as long as safe, but although not investigated fully yet, there does seem to be scope within the Human Rights Act but of course that costs money as Solicitors would become involved. Good luck and my thoughts are with you as it is absolutely horrendous when you have become the only carer, yet siblings just demonstrate a want for putting them away, can claim they are being looked after and then do even less.
  17. witts1973

    witts1973 Registered User

    Jun 20, 2018
    Leamington Spa
    God knows how these things work,at least it stopped while your Dad still had money for his care from the sale of the house
  18. Sam Luvit

    Sam Luvit Registered User

    Oct 19, 2016
    East Sussex
    Early morning @HelenC23 :)

    That’s ok, it’s just what we all try to do on here, make suggestions & listen, coz we’ve been through it too. Chances are, someone will have been in your position & can offer advice that helps you get to where you need to be.

    While I understand you saying the solicitor can hold the LPA for finances, that wouId increase your need for paperwork & greatly increase your stress. You wouId need to ask them (& your mum wouId be charged each time), for every thing you needed to pay for. Utility bills, food bills, carers etc. Just something to bear in mind

    Capacity can come & go in the early stages, a solicitor will not say someone has capacity if they don’t, but they might “fudge’ it if there is family infighting in my opinion, saying they are unsure if there is capacity, to try to keep out of the fight. Capacity only has to be present “at the time of signing”

    Some siblings believe they are right, some think they are “more right”, just because they are the eldest, or in some cases, the “top” of the siblings. It sounds like your brother believes he should be in charge, without necessarily having the knowledge of being at the coal face :rolleyes: It happens

    You have to try to get round this as best you can, to reduce stress to your mum & find a way to work with your siblings, in as much as you can. My mum wanted to paint the ceilings, decorate the stairwell, I couldn’t do it myself for a variety of reasons, so paid a decorator & told my brother it was being done. We needed to sort the downstairs loo, that was expensive, so I told my brother it was being done. His face :eek:, at the cost, but I said it was needed. Each “expensive” repair or maintenance meant I got a few quotes, then told my brother it was needed for Mum, not me. I was factual but not emotional when I told him. After a while, he let me get in with it, but I still told him each time. No surprises so no backlash

    I’m lucky, my brother came round & ended up being my rock. I know that’s not the case for many others. I told him I understand (I really didn’t), but told him I understood, that he was never going to be hands on caring. I think that took the pressure off him, lowered my expectations & so we could make it work

    For whatever reason, your mum either gave in, or decided it was fair, or whatever, but she agreed for your brother to be an attorney. From what you’ve said, things have changed & she now wants it changed. For your own sake, let the changes go ahead & leave the “triumph” you may feel over your success, in the past. Bringing it up in the future will not help you.

    At some time in the future, I can almost guarantee your mum will turn on you. It seems to be the nature of this disease, that the caree turns on the main Carer with many accusations. It’s not personal, it’s anxiety & fear of not knowing what is wrong. The last thing you need at that time is your brother gloating over you in revenge of your actions over this :rolleyes:

    All dogs have to be chipped. Is your name on the register? If not, log onto the site or talk to the vet & add your name (you could also have a quiet word with the vet about some “family issues” that you dont want to trouble them with), make sure your mobile number is the first contact number, so any attempts to rehome your dog can’t happen

    Being a Carer is hard enough ... appointments, chasing up prescriptions, dropping samples into surgeries, not to mention fighting the GP for visits, without siblings making it harder. Take it a step at a time, get the LPA sorted & then try to keep the conversations with your siblings simple & short. Send an email to all of the together with facts of what’s goung on could prevent then trying to play “one against the other” games

    Keep looking in the mirror. So long as you can do that, honestly saying you are doing your best & what’s best for your mum ... nobody’s opinion can touch you :D
  19. concerned4

    concerned4 Registered User

    Jun 3, 2012
    Great advice Sam, so true in every aspect, but last lines for me are bang on the money.
  20. Havemercy

    Havemercy Registered User

    Oct 8, 2012
    My advice is not about Power of Attorney as Sam has given you brilliant advice. However I am very concerned about your brother's "threat" to put your mother into residential care. It would be illegal to force someone into care against their wishes. Where I work (large hospital on the south coast of England) our hospital based social workers will ( even if someone has capacity to decide) visit the patient and liaise with the family as to whether this really is the wish of the patient - self funding or not.

    If the person is deemed to lack capacity, then a Best Interests Meeting will be organised- again by Social Services - to include all involved parties including possibly the patient and any advocate if no interested family. The idea would be to discuss the least restrictive option and patient wishes.

    If you really are worried that your brother will force or coerce your mother into care, then I would be ringing social services as a "safeguarding" issue and ask them to get involved. You can always contact the duty team even just to discuss - but they need to know the situation. Best wishes.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.