Human Rights Act does not apply to private care homes
- Thread starter jenniferpa
- Start date
Hi Jennifer
Thanks for highlighting this.
As with all such stories, it is what is omitted that is probably crucial.
Apparently from the story, the root cause was disagreement between the family and the home. Wow, that can cover such a variety of things, either in the home's favour, or in the family's.
All of which does not help the resident, of course.
The devil is in the detail, though, and we can never make our own judgements without all the facts.
On the face of it the situation is dreadful and I hated the notion that the Human Rights Act only applies to public bodies, and not even them if they are funding someone to use private facilities.
Thanks for highlighting this.
As with all such stories, it is what is omitted that is probably crucial.
Apparently from the story, the root cause was disagreement between the family and the home. Wow, that can cover such a variety of things, either in the home's favour, or in the family's.
All of which does not help the resident, of course.
The devil is in the detail, though, and we can never make our own judgements without all the facts.
On the face of it the situation is dreadful and I hated the notion that the Human Rights Act only applies to public bodies, and not even them if they are funding someone to use private facilities.
This is the thread when we discussing this case before
http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/TalkingPoint/discuss/showthread.php?t=6412
http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/TalkingPoint/discuss/showthread.php?t=6412
the thing that amazes me about this is that, even if the case had been won, it would still mean that the Human Rights Act still did NOT apply to those residents who were self funded.
I would wonder whether I would want my mum to be in a care home that didn't want her, having been in that position anyway with her first care home, but that is almost beside the point. If that case had been won it might have at least set a precedent for LA funded residents in private homes. Rights for self funded residents might then have been easier to obtain.
I would wonder whether I would want my mum to be in a care home that didn't want her, having been in that position anyway with her first care home, but that is almost beside the point. If that case had been won it might have at least set a precedent for LA funded residents in private homes. Rights for self funded residents might then have been easier to obtain.
Right of abode
The point here is that as a result of a third party, another person can be evicted (a person with dementia; a person, with a sever mental impairment).
A tenant of a property would not be evicted because of a third party, no mater what that third party had done.
The point here is that as a result of a third party, another person can be evicted (a person with dementia; a person, with a sever mental impairment).
A tenant of a property would not be evicted because of a third party, no mater what that third party had done.
Chris Edgerton said:
By a third party, do you mean the relatives of the care home resident? If so, then I would think it would be possible for a tenant to be evicted because of the actions of a third party. For instance, if a tenant of a rented house or flat had visitors who behaved extremely badly and that tenant allowed them to continue with this behaviour, then I would think that eventually they could be evicted.
Just playing devil's advocate here!
This is why it is so difficult to come to a conclusion without having absolutely every shred of knowledge from all sides.
Depends on the family
depends what they do
depends on the home
...just depends.
There are never totally black and totally white situations, especially where dementia, and the way it damages people and their relatives, is concerned.
it's life
Depends on the family
depends what they do
depends on the home
...just depends.
There are never totally black and totally white situations, especially where dementia, and the way it damages people and their relatives, is concerned.
it's life
I'm afraid a lot of homes would just close down if they weren't allowed to evict people at the managers' own discretion if they thought it was necessary.
(Laws protecting tenants' rights made it more difficult to find rented accommodation as so many landladies found it was not worth the hassle.)
(Laws protecting tenants' rights made it more difficult to find rented accommodation as so many landladies found it was not worth the hassle.)
Lila13 said:
I would hope that it was unusual for residents of care homes to be evicted! A common scenario is where the home decides it can no longer meet the resident's needs because of a change in their condition. I don't think it often goes as far as 'evicting' the tenant without their or their families consent.
I guess mine must be one of the certain families. I've outlined elsewhere what happened in my mum's case, and I'll just briefly say again what happened, because I think some aspects of what happened are, unfortunately, not uncommon.
She was whizzed to hospital for chest pains in March last year. The chest pains turned out to be no more than constipation. The 'home' refused to take her back, saying they couldn't cope with her nursing needs. At that time she was ambulant, with minimal assistance but had had a couple of UTI's which had set her back a little.
Whilst she was in hospital, a multi disciplinary assessment said she had no nursing needs. As far as we were concerned the home had made her 'homeless' whilst she was in hospital. I can't think of any other way of describing this except as an eviction. We searched high and low for alternative care and couldn't find any. We then reluctantly reverted to the 'home' and showed them the multidisciplinary assessment, which also said that she had been admitted with malnutrition and dehydration. Out of embarrassment and in the face of the professionals opinions on the multidisciplinary assessment, they accepted her to an EMI residential wing.
They again, after about a month sent her to hospital for exactly the same scenario but took her back when they realised that the hospital was satisfied she didn't need admission.
After a few weeks, they called a multidisciplinary meeting of their own devising and informed us of the outcome. Once again they deemed her to need nursing care, mainly because a palliative care nurse had agreed to recommend oxygen for her and the home was unable to administer this. They did have a 'wellness nurse' covering the whole complex, but they would not allow her to administer the oxygen, or her deputies, because they did not attend the premises 24/7. The oxygen sat in the administrator's office whilst the home made up its mind whether or not they could let my mother have it. (The palliative care service was withdrawn this year as they say my mother is not terminal. Even now, with my mother in a nursing home, she has never received oxygen.)
Having made up their minds that they couldn't provide nursing for my mother, ( which no one had been asking them to do; a District Nurse visited to carry out any minor 'nursing' interventions such as changing small dressings on the occasions when my mother's legs were damaged during handling), they then issued us with a letter giving us 30 days notice of their intention to claim back my mother's room. I don't know what else one would call this except eviction.
My mother was receiving minimal nursing attention (which was anyway provided by the DN), was reasonably mobile and was physically no worse than several other residents whom (a local PCT assessor assured us) the home had managed to accommodate. The home trumped up a pretext to get rid of my mother, mainly because I was too vigilant in trying to protect her interests and was too much of a liability. I spent a lot of time at the home trying to give my mother company and I saw a fair bit more than the home was comfortable with. I had alerted the manager, before they decided to oust my mum, that I had seen a member of staff shout at a youngish resident with dementia and pull her roughly from her chair. As I was the only witness to this, they concluded that they could do no more than send the worker to another floor pending investigation and the worker was subsequently allowed back onto the floor where my mother was living. I asked if this worker could please not attend my mother.
My mother had been living under their roof(s) for almost six years when these events took place.
I think it is unwise to assume that people cannot be evicted without the agreement of families. There are different ways of achieving the same end as an eviction and by and large it is the issue of whether the home can meet a person's needs or not which will, I think, be used as the reason for moving someone. Whether the assessment of need is genuine, or just a matter of convenience is where the relatives have to be careful. That and opening their mouths too often.
Finally, I'd like to say that I have tried to share, on this site, the really upsetting things that have happened to my mother, partly for my own sake but partly also for the benefit of other families. No one has to believe what I have written if they don't want to, but I have done my best to set things out as they occurred in the hope that families will realise what happened to just one eldelrly lady with a diagnosis of AD. I don't think I have anything more to add and I can't actually afford to keep posting here because the site is a little bit addictive and I am spending too much time for the limits allowed by my ISP of internet access, so I am going to stop visiting the site. I would like to thank Sylvia, Hazel, Cate, Margarita, Nell and Sue38 in particular for all their generous support and wish everyone who posts here the very best of luck in looking after the interests of their loved ones. With love, Deborah
She was whizzed to hospital for chest pains in March last year. The chest pains turned out to be no more than constipation. The 'home' refused to take her back, saying they couldn't cope with her nursing needs. At that time she was ambulant, with minimal assistance but had had a couple of UTI's which had set her back a little.
Whilst she was in hospital, a multi disciplinary assessment said she had no nursing needs. As far as we were concerned the home had made her 'homeless' whilst she was in hospital. I can't think of any other way of describing this except as an eviction. We searched high and low for alternative care and couldn't find any. We then reluctantly reverted to the 'home' and showed them the multidisciplinary assessment, which also said that she had been admitted with malnutrition and dehydration. Out of embarrassment and in the face of the professionals opinions on the multidisciplinary assessment, they accepted her to an EMI residential wing.
They again, after about a month sent her to hospital for exactly the same scenario but took her back when they realised that the hospital was satisfied she didn't need admission.
After a few weeks, they called a multidisciplinary meeting of their own devising and informed us of the outcome. Once again they deemed her to need nursing care, mainly because a palliative care nurse had agreed to recommend oxygen for her and the home was unable to administer this. They did have a 'wellness nurse' covering the whole complex, but they would not allow her to administer the oxygen, or her deputies, because they did not attend the premises 24/7. The oxygen sat in the administrator's office whilst the home made up its mind whether or not they could let my mother have it. (The palliative care service was withdrawn this year as they say my mother is not terminal. Even now, with my mother in a nursing home, she has never received oxygen.)
Having made up their minds that they couldn't provide nursing for my mother, ( which no one had been asking them to do; a District Nurse visited to carry out any minor 'nursing' interventions such as changing small dressings on the occasions when my mother's legs were damaged during handling), they then issued us with a letter giving us 30 days notice of their intention to claim back my mother's room. I don't know what else one would call this except eviction.
My mother was receiving minimal nursing attention (which was anyway provided by the DN), was reasonably mobile and was physically no worse than several other residents whom (a local PCT assessor assured us) the home had managed to accommodate. The home trumped up a pretext to get rid of my mother, mainly because I was too vigilant in trying to protect her interests and was too much of a liability. I spent a lot of time at the home trying to give my mother company and I saw a fair bit more than the home was comfortable with. I had alerted the manager, before they decided to oust my mum, that I had seen a member of staff shout at a youngish resident with dementia and pull her roughly from her chair. As I was the only witness to this, they concluded that they could do no more than send the worker to another floor pending investigation and the worker was subsequently allowed back onto the floor where my mother was living. I asked if this worker could please not attend my mother.
My mother had been living under their roof(s) for almost six years when these events took place.
I think it is unwise to assume that people cannot be evicted without the agreement of families. There are different ways of achieving the same end as an eviction and by and large it is the issue of whether the home can meet a person's needs or not which will, I think, be used as the reason for moving someone. Whether the assessment of need is genuine, or just a matter of convenience is where the relatives have to be careful. That and opening their mouths too often.
Finally, I'd like to say that I have tried to share, on this site, the really upsetting things that have happened to my mother, partly for my own sake but partly also for the benefit of other families. No one has to believe what I have written if they don't want to, but I have done my best to set things out as they occurred in the hope that families will realise what happened to just one eldelrly lady with a diagnosis of AD. I don't think I have anything more to add and I can't actually afford to keep posting here because the site is a little bit addictive and I am spending too much time for the limits allowed by my ISP of internet access, so I am going to stop visiting the site. I would like to thank Sylvia, Hazel, Cate, Margarita, Nell and Sue38 in particular for all their generous support and wish everyone who posts here the very best of luck in looking after the interests of their loved ones. With love, Deborah
just to clarify, yours was not the sort of family I had in mind when I wrote those words.Deborah Blythe said:
Clearly not all homes are excellent, and those that fall short should welcome comment from families that might help them improve the care they give.
Thanks for sharing your experiences which have clearly not been acceptably handled by the home.
I hope you can continue to post here as your posts have always been valued.
Dear Deborah,
I am so sorry to think we might have seen the last of you. Can`t you do something to your ISP, to make them give you more time?
You have brought a breath of fresh air to TP, in addition to valuable accounts of yours and your mother`s experience of Alzheimers, and shown insight into the experiences of others.
I would like to wish you well in everything you do, and sincerely hope we shall hear from you again.
With love xx
I am so sorry to think we might have seen the last of you. Can`t you do something to your ISP, to make them give you more time?
You have brought a breath of fresh air to TP, in addition to valuable accounts of yours and your mother`s experience of Alzheimers, and shown insight into the experiences of others.
I would like to wish you well in everything you do, and sincerely hope we shall hear from you again.
With love xx
Deborah, please don't go! Your posts have been so helpful. Can you not get broadband? If you are on the internet a lot, as I am, I am sure it would work out cheaper than paying by the minute. Or maybe you could find the time sometmes to go to an internet cafe or a library that offers internet access to the public?
As far as 'evictions' go, my mum was pretty much evicted from her first 'care' home also. I won't go into details here as I have posted on it before but I do know it is a horrible position to be in. In my mum's case it turned out for the best as I think the nursing home she is in now is as good as it gets, certainly for this area, and I have visted most of them! I also put a complaint in to CSCI about events surrounding my mum's broken hip, which again I won't recap on. Suffice it to say that I wasn't happy with the outcome!
As far as 'evictions' go, my mum was pretty much evicted from her first 'care' home also. I won't go into details here as I have posted on it before but I do know it is a horrible position to be in. In my mum's case it turned out for the best as I think the nursing home she is in now is as good as it gets, certainly for this area, and I have visted most of them! I also put a complaint in to CSCI about events surrounding my mum's broken hip, which again I won't recap on. Suffice it to say that I wasn't happy with the outcome!
Deborah, you know how much I value your friendship on TP. Apart from the accounts of your own experiences, you have contributed so much to the forum.
Your replies to threads are always full of insight, and your contribution to tea room is invaluable. The interest and pure entertaiment value of your threads is something I for one would miss very much.
I do hope you'll reconsider.
Love,
Your replies to threads are always full of insight, and your contribution to tea room is invaluable. The interest and pure entertaiment value of your threads is something I for one would miss very much.
I do hope you'll reconsider.
Love,
Deborah don't go as I have the perfect solution for you will sorry only about the internet only £10/ £14 a mouth and no phone line , and its broadband . They give you the Box to go wireless
https://secure.mynow.co.uk/index.php
My friends got it few door away from me , it say on the site its not in my area when I put my post code in , but my friend got it so am ringing them up tomorrow .
Imagine It , I could save on the line rental just use my mobile .
Just ring up to just find out if its in your area .
https://secure.mynow.co.uk/index.php
My friends got it few door away from me , it say on the site its not in my area when I put my post code in , but my friend got it so am ringing them up tomorrow .
Imagine It , I could save on the line rental just use my mobile .
Just ring up to just find out if its in your area .
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