How to move from care at home to care home - when she doesn't want to 'go in a home'

[Clemmy]

Hi
Sadly the pennies are running out and we need to plan ahead for my Aunt to go into a nursing care home next year. The live in carer is fabulous, the respite carer/helper is fabulous - we know we are unlikely to find anything as safe or as good as my Aunt's own home where she receives amazing care. Also my Aunt pathologically fears going in a home. We can't even raise the topic of going into a home with her. We always said we would try to keep our elders in their own homes as long as possible but we are coming to the end of the tracks in this current situation.

The worst thing about this situation is that my aunt knows where she is and that she is at home. It is the only place she feels safe now. With another aunt who went into a nursing care home she didn't know where she was any longer and as a very sociable being she loved the new activities and the people - she actually enjoyed the life and company. This other aunt is a private person and not a joiner in so a completely different character.

My aunt has a home to sell and 2 pensions so she is in a good position. In an ideal world we would keep her where she is until she didn't know she was at home any longer so the move wouldn't be as traumatic. But I can't keep this up for much longer now anyway - I hope that doesn't seem selfish.

Also even with the great carers the weight of being POA is sizeable. I am concierge/fixer of domestic issues from drains to whole heating systems, to getting food and incontinence pads delivered in bulk. The 'remaining in her own home' puts a strain on me as I have to manage her house and her finances. Everything runs on Direct Debit and credit card like clockwork, but there are the mini-emergencies and all that to juggle. Compared to what other people posting here experience I am very privileged. However I think one can only do this for so long as it does have an impact on my life.

How do you move someone into a nursing care home when they don't want to go, and you can't even mention it to them because they will freak? I would be grateful if you could share your own experience of how you have achieved this move and remained able to visit your relative without being hit, shouted at or worse....

Also does anyone have any experience with annuities that they might be able to share.

Thanks in advance

 

[Katrine]

I am in a similar situation to you, with my mum living in her own home with live-in carers. It is a part-time job for me too, especially as I live 500 miles away. As well as all the things I do via the internet, I go up regularly to manage things and to work on her large garden. I had someone who cut the grass and did a bit of weeding but she's now retired so I will have to find a new gardener in the spring.

Over the last 18 months I have overseen a loft conversion, installation of 3 bathrooms, a wheelchair ramp, exterior paving and a new oil tank and boiler. This is to allow my mum and her carers to operate safely and comfortably, with facilities for family to stay at the house, since we all live a long way away.

As with you, the pennies are beginning to run out. We've probably got 2 years maximum with savings and ongoing pension income. My mum is nearly 91 and has been looked after 24/7 for 8 years. Unless she begins to need actual nursing care we hope to keep her at home, despite the eyewatering expense. Like your aunt, my mum is quiet and private and would not enjoy a communal environment.

The luxury we have is in providing our relative with a regime that is tailor-made for their own personal needs. Their daily routine revolves around one person, not a group, and they don't have to interact with other elderly people who are also bewildered and possibly challenging in their behaviour. That said, we've had some odd carers, but our regulars are lovely and I trust them completely.

I have just started to look into the possibility of a lifetime mortgage with draw-down funding rather than lump sum equity release. We have guardianship, which is similar to deputyship or POA. The broker I spoke to said it's not unheard of and she would get back to me in a couple of days with news of any offer she could make, after she had spoken to the various national providers. That was 10 days ago and I've heard no more. There are complicating factors, which include needing to get approval from OPG if we want to go ahead. However, I am still hopeful that someone will offer us an equity release product that will suit.

P.S. we took advice regarding an annuity. The financial advisor said given my mum's age and state of health then she wouldn't recommend it, because you need something like a 5-year period of annuity payments before you're in profit, so to speak. My mum already has an annuity pension that she took out 26 years ago. The payments are fixed, so the monthly payments are the same as they were at the beginning. They are therefore worth a lot less, due to inflation. I don't know what the purchase price was in 1989, but she must be ahead of the game after 26 years.

 

[Clemmy]

Thanks Katrine

Katrine
thanks so much for your reply. I appreciate it. Gosh your work on your mum's home dwarfs my labours and you are doing it at 500 miles remove!! I am thoroughly impressed.

I think you are right about annuities. Are you in Scotland as the terms you are using are a bit different. Must admit I hadn't thought about a lifetime mortgage - I didn't think such things existed - I thought there was equity release (which is a real no no in my book after I have heard some horror stories). I will do some googling.

Keep up the good work - your mum is a lucky lady!

I am in a similar situation to you, with my mum living in her own home with live-in carers. It is a part-time job for me too, especially as I live 500 miles away. As well as all the things I do via the internet, I go up regularly to manage things and to work on her large garden. I had someone who cut the grass and did a bit of weeding but she's now retired so I will have to find a new gardener in the spring.

Over the last 18 months I have overseen a loft conversion, installation of 3 bathrooms, a wheelchair ramp, exterior paving and a new oil tank and boiler. This is to allow my mum and her carers to operate safely and comfortably, with facilities for family to stay at the house, since we all live a long way away.

As with you, the pennies are beginning to run out. We've probably got 2 years maximum with savings and ongoing pension income. My mum is nearly 91 and has been looked after 24/7 for 8 years. Unless she begins to need actual nursing care we hope to keep her at home, despite the eyewatering expense. Like your aunt, my mum is quiet and private and would not enjoy a communal environment.

The luxury we have is in providing our relative with a regime that is tailor-made for their own personal needs. Their daily routine revolves around one person, not a group, and they don't have to interact with other elderly people who are also bewildered and possibly challenging in their behaviour. That said, we've had some odd carers, but our regulars are lovely and I trust them completely.

I have just started to look into the possibility of a lifetime mortgage with draw-down funding rather than lump sum equity release. We have guardianship, which is similar to deputyship or POA. The broker I spoke to said it's not unheard of and she would get back to me in a couple of days with news of any offer she could make, after she had spoken to the various national providers. That was 10 days ago and I've heard no more. There are complicating factors, which include needing to get approval from OPG if we want to go ahead. However, I am still hopeful that someone will offer us an equity release product that will suit.

P.S. we took advice regarding an annuity. The financial advisor said given my mum's age and state of health then she wouldn't recommend it, because you need something like a 5-year period of annuity payments before you're in profit, so to speak. My mum already has an annuity pension that she took out 26 years ago. The payments are fixed, so the monthly payments are the same as they were at the beginning. They are therefore worth a lot less, due to inflation. I don't know what the purchase price was in 1989, but she must be ahead of the game after 26 years.

 

[Katrine]

Thanks for your kind words Clemmy. Please don't think I was saying you aren't trying hard enough! I know how hard it is to keep on top of everything.

I also sometimes think, how long will I have to go on doing this? When I signed up for it, my brother and I were going to share the work, but he emigrated and it's been down to me 95%, until my OH stepped in 18 months ago and offered to be joint Guardian. The complexity of record keeping and accounting is now off the scale compared to what it used to do when I just pottered along with no specific legal authority.

I am speaking to the broker tomorrow, so will let you know how I get on. The product we want is a drawdown lifetime mortgage. It is equity release of a particular kind. The aim would be to borrow as little as possible and only draw down as needed. You can either have a product where you make repayments, or stack up compound interest to be repaid when the home owner dies or goes into permanent residential care (and the house gets sold). We will see what deals we get offered. Interest rates are very low ATM so a fixed rate deal might be particularly attractive.

My mum lives in Scotland, so we are Guardians supervised by the Office of the Public Guardian (Scotland) and are subject to Scottish law and legal processes. We live in England.

 

[Pickles53]

P.S. we took advice regarding an annuity. The financial advisor said given my mum's age and state of health then she wouldn't recommend it, because you need something like a 5-year period of annuity payments before you're in profit, so to speak. My mum already has an annuity pension that she took out 26 years ago. The payments are fixed, so the monthly payments are the same as they were at the beginning. They are therefore worth a lot less, due to inflation. I don't know what the purchase price was in 1989, but she must be ahead of the game after 26 years.

This sounds quite similar to the annuity quote we got where the capital payment was approximately equivalent to 4 years care home fees (at £975 per week). We didn't go ahead as mum's health was so unstable and she actually died only a few months later.

However, they can be a good deal and I have certainly read other TP posts where the annuity payout has exceeded the original investment by a considerable margin. You do have the security if knowing the payments will never run out however long the person lives.

 

[Bod]

This sounds quite similar to the annuity quote we got where the capital payment was approximately equivalent to 4 years care home fees (at £975 per week). We didn't go ahead as mum's health was so unstable and she actually died only a few months later.

However, they can be a good deal and I have certainly read other TP posts where the annuity payout has exceeded the original investment by a considerable margin. You do have the security if knowing the payments will never run out however long the person lives.

Down side to annuities, is that if the person dies to soon, most if not all the money is lost.
At present they are very expensive for the return achieved.
I would advise speaking to an independent financial advisor, there are quite a few different products out there, the trick is knowing which is best for yourselves.

Bod

 

[fizzie]

I was going to suggest a draw down against the house - I know a couple of people who have done that and it has worked well. Obviously you would still have your 'job' but you might feel it was worth it!

Age UK helpline may be able to point you in the right direction of different products
at least it would be a start 0800 169 6565 and they are open 8am to 7pm
just a thought !