1. ishard

    ishard Registered User

    Jul 10, 2007
    98
    How do I persuade Mum to give me power of attourney?

    I am the only family member she has and have been caring for her and her finances for the last 4 years but her bank has suggested that perhaps we should do this, however I took mum down to her solicitors and she came out not having done it!
    I was not allowed in with Mum and the solicitor (in case of undue pressure I suppose) but mum came out saying she has changed her will to leave some money to her elder brothers which is fine but not what we went there for. lol

    Mum has made me promise not to put her into a home of any sort as she wishes to stay at home which I know will become impossible as she is a wonderer so I though perhaps she could move in with me and my family with a lot of bulding work and adaptions. Mum can afford nursing care at night for when Im asleep.

    I am very, very worried that if I am not given POW then Mum will be forced to go into a home rather than with me, which she would prefer.
     
  2. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    69,903
    Kent
    Do you think you could say this to your mother?
    The trouble is, even if she agrees, there`s a chance she may change her mind once you get to the solicitors.
    Sorry to be so negative, but it`s down to experience. :(
     
  3. BeverleyY

    BeverleyY Registered User

    Jan 29, 2008
    716
    Ashford, Kent
    Hi

    I am in a similar situation(ish).

    We have a Power of Attorney already prepared but, I have not registered it.

    From what I can see, it becomes hard for them to spend their money when it is registered as you have to account for every penny.

    My Dad already lives with me, but my question was if I give up work to care for him full time - hence keeping him out of a home - and I replace my lost salary with an monthly payment from my Dad - is that deemed in his best interest?

    To me and my sister (his only children) it makes perfect sense.

    Home = £925.00/week

    I would't take anywhere near that. I would just need to replace my £28,500 a year salary.

    So, he gets to stay with us, and isn't paying anywhere near £48,100 a year for a nursing home.

    The Public Guardian Office said they couldn't advise me, so I rang a solicitor last week, and she advised me that it was pretty clear that was in is best interests, but to keep strict accounts and get the signed agreement of my sister.

    My only possible query is whether Social Services would be cheesed off with it, because come the point that I can't cope and he really needs a Nursing Home (which, I think is a long long way off) then, will they say I have dwindled his capital by 'paying' myself?

    This is all a bloody minefield!

    Beverley
     
  4. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,438
    Ishard - I don't have an answer for you although I will say that with or without a LPA no one can be forced into a home UNLESS they are sectioned. Also - you say your mother can afford nursing care at night - are you aware of how much that costs? I looked into this last year and it was going to be around £840 a week!

    Berverley - I don't know, but I would think if you set it up as you being employed by your father (and making NI payments etc) then the LA would not have any come back. I would have a look online for advice directed toward people employing staff using direct payments and see what you would have to do.
     
  5. BeverleyY

    BeverleyY Registered User

    Jan 29, 2008
    716
    Ashford, Kent
    Well, I had thought of that - but then, it just means his hard earned income passing to me - and being taxed again.

    The solicitor i spoke to suggested that an amount was made each month as a gift towards housekeeping.

    I'm sure the LA would deem that was an excessive gift. I just don't understand how they can think it is reasonable for me to give up my salary of £500 a week and replace it with carers allowance of £48.00 a week. I have 2 small children, and doing that would seriously pinch our finances.

    It's all ludicrous.

    Beverley
     
  6. Clive

    Clive Registered User

    Nov 7, 2004
    716
    Hi Ishard

    It is a long time since mum did her Enduring Power of Attorney (EPA), but at that time we both stood together at the Solicitor’s receptionist's counter and signed the document. We actually never met the professional Solicitor. I had rung several solicitors to find the cheapest price, only paying £18 for an original and three certified copies, whilst the average price quoted was £60.

    A couple of years ago my son did an EPA for himself. He downloaded the document from the internet and got the appropriate people to sign it. He did not bother with a solicitor.

    I am no expert in these matters and you may feel it is better to employ a Solicitor. However I wonder if you can still download the blank Lasting Power of Attorney Form from the internet and get it filled in at your mother’s home. If you have not done so already you can read up about it, and download a form from the links, at

    http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Over50s/HomeAndCommunity/Carers/DG_10026855



    In my mother’s case she was more than happy to sign the EPA form when I explained that I needed it to sort out the Gas people who were charging her too much on her Direct Debit.

    I am sure you are right in thinking that you need the LPA and that it is something you will be glad you sorted out.

    Best wishes

    Clive
     
  7. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,438
    Berverley while I see your point (oh brother, do I) it might make it more difficult in the future if you do it that way. If you do decide to take the non-employee route I would think that it would be better, rather than call it a gift, to call it reimbursement for household expenses (which of course it would be). These add up: it's not just mortgage payments (which I'm sure are higher if you had to increase the size of your house) but also council tax, maintenance, transport, food, heat and light (which of course you have to have for 8 hours a day more than you would do if you were all at work/school), water, laundry: well you get the picture.
     
  8. elaineo2

    elaineo2 Registered User

    Jul 6, 2007
    945
    leigh lancashire
    may i suggest that your mums GP does an assesment of her ability to make her own decsions?if it proves that she is able then advovacy is the best way to go.get in touch with your local advocacy team and explain the situation and they will see your mum and advise from the meeting.wortha try hun!love elainex
     
  9. Helena

    Helena Registered User

    May 24, 2006
    715
    If your Mother is wandering and has Dementia it was wrong of the solicitor to change her will
    I would be worried in case she has altered it entirely in her brothers favour
    Often Dementia patients get very strange ideas in their heads

    I cant understand why if you went to the Solicitors to make a Power of Attorney why they would not let you in .......because anyone appointed as an Attorney has to be there and sign the papers too
     
  10. huntsu1

    huntsu1 Registered User

    Jan 2, 2008
    27
    Blackwater
    We used the internet forms to complete the EPA for my MIL, they were set up with her two sons being joint attorneys (my BIL is not trustworthy) the forms were witnessed and signed by a good family friend and neighbor. It was three year before we registered it and we did clarify with the Office of the public guardian that the form did not require a solicitor. This was confirmed and was registered with no problems.
    Mum was happy to set this up initially as she was having trouble paying bills, could not remember what she had paid and as at the time she was living alone she was more than happy for her family to sort things out.
     
  11. ishard

    ishard Registered User

    Jul 10, 2007
    98
    Thank you all for your replies :)

    Clive I think I will download those forms and yes they can still be used, doing this at home will be less stressfull for Mum (and me!)

    Bev you brought something up I had never even thought of lol I buy all my mums food and cook it and it costs me a fortune (Mum eats very well as Im a good cook) which I have been using the carers allowance for leaving me awfully broke, in fact anything she needs I pay for except her unitlity bills.
    Asking her for a contribution may be the way to go if she doesnt get too agressive because she is so used to me just paying.

    Mum has the carers allowance idea so screwed that she thinks that she pays me.
     
  12. ishard

    ishard Registered User

    Jul 10, 2007
    98
    OOH Helena Ive just seen your post and I never thought of that!

    Should I go to her solicitor and ask why they changed her will and what she changed it to? Can I do that? Am I 'allowed'?
     
  13. huntsu1

    huntsu1 Registered User

    Jan 2, 2008
    27
    Blackwater
    Before we had even started down the route of POA our local PO was closed. Mum used to walk there once or twice a week to pick up her pension and do a bit of shopping on the way, it used to get her out of the house, give her new people to talk to etc. Once the PO was closed I would pick her up and take her to the next nearest, it was not the same for her but solved a problem UNTIL they then decided in their wisdom to make it chip and pin, mums memory was pretty shot by then and this was impossible.

    I firmly believe this lead to a speed up of her dementia, she stopped going out as she no longer had anywhere to go and lost a lot of her confidence.

    Anyway the point of this was to say my husband and mum (MIL) made an appointment with the bank manager and she gave consent for her son to have a cashpoint (only) card which allowed us access to up to £200 a day. By setting up direct debits where possible we managed for about three years, in fact we only registered the POA when we realised she could not live on her own at home anymore and we would be forced for sell her home to pay for her care.

    She is settling into the home quite well now but always asks if her home is OK and does someone go and check it, we reassure her that someone checks everyday (my son has moved in temporarily until it is sold) and will probably continue to say this even after it has been sold. She will never know and would be devistated to think her sons will not be benefitting from it.
     
  14. Helena

    Helena Registered User

    May 24, 2006
    715
    Ishard

    1) its absolutely vital you get the amount you have paid out on your Mums behalf refunded ........always keep receipts etc and a carefull record

    2) Yes I would go and see that solicitor because he should be made well aware that she is "not of sound mind" i am sure your doctors will back that up

    3) VD patients get very very secretive and possesive about money often complaining they dont have any yet they have fortunes stashed away either in cash or in stupid accounts paying 0% in interest

    You need to arrange for her to be out for the day and totally search the house .......take away all the financial stuff and get it sorted out she wont notice

    Download the LPA forms from the guardianship website and get them signed by your Mother and witnessed by a friend who understands the dilema you are in

    On a good day you can tell your Mother its so you can help her pay bills .........anything which gets her to sign them
     
  15. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    69,903
    Kent
    This suggestion is counterproductive. If a person is `not of sound mind` to sign a Will, s/he is `not of sound mind` to sign a LPA.

    I would suggest you contact MENCAP. It was from them I was advised to get a list of local solicitors, who professed themselves compatible with the elderly and those who are confused by documentation.
     
  16. BeverleyY

    BeverleyY Registered User

    Jan 29, 2008
    716
    Ashford, Kent
    We bought a much bigger house to enable my parents to live with us. It was just over double the price of the house we already lived in.

    This meant I had to go back to work (I'd been at home with the kids up until that point) and me quitting work to look after Dad would just cripple us financially (I am prepared to do it.. and prepared to tighten the belts considerably) - I just think it is ludicrous that if I were a stranger, it is quite feasible for my Dad to pay for me to care for him, but the Government and SS expect the families to do it, and be worse off in the process.

    Don't get me wrong, I love my Dad, and I wouldn't have changed bringing him and Mum here to live. As I say, I've spent the last 5 years worse off financially as a result of making this choice, and did so quite happily.

    What I just find annoying is that, if my Dad didn't have this illness, he would not be expected to be 'hanging on to his cash'. He would be allowed to spend it freely, give it to his grandchildren etc. etc. whereas, because he was unfortunate enough to get Dementia, SS are now expecting him to cling on to all his cash so he can spend £925.00 a week on flipping care!

    Aaargh, these rants don't do anything for my own sanity.

    Beverley:mad:
     
  17. Helena

    Helena Registered User

    May 24, 2006
    715
    Beverley

    If you bought a bigger house to provide space and care for your parents they were entitled to help you out with the purchase price .

    You should not be beggared financially as a result

    You need to see if theres a way to backtrack and sort this out

    I agree the rules are WRONG that if you were a stranger your Dad could pay you but because you are family SS calculate you can subsidise your Dad and them too
     
  18. ishard

    ishard Registered User

    Jul 10, 2007
    98
    Yes I have access to Mums accounts and set up direct debits for her utlilites 4 years ago (Dad died 4 years ago (CVA) so I took over his job) and I can sign instead of her, the bank suggested that 3 years ago when she deteriorated then, the only things I cant do are close an account and re-invest in new bonds without her signature. And that will be the problem soon.

    I have made my Mum over 30k interest in the last 4 years with her own money by investing in high yield accounts and bonds, in her name and in her banks but that will stop soon if she cannot co-sign. That is what made the bank suggest to get the LPOA.

    I work hard to make Mums money work so that when the time comes that she needs full time care she has the funds.

    Hehehe You are soo right in saying people with dementia get secretive and say they are broke, my mum says that all the time and I know how much she has cos I invested it!

    I will indeed keep receipts from now on I just feel quite mean really doing that. Ah well,*sigh* I suppose its another step down the road.
     
  19. ishard

    ishard Registered User

    Jul 10, 2007
    98
    Bev Im not sure if this would work but its a sort or thing that can be done abroad so as to get round the red tape cos outsiders arent allowed to own land so that people can buy houses and renovate them in some countries, it may work to get expenses for looking after your Dad.

    Set up a make believe company, register it, sell your house to the company (on paper) then the company rents the house to your parents. On paper you are visiting and the rent comes back to you, yes you pay tax but being a comany you claim tax back.

    I think we need a good accountant to tell us if this will work, I think Ill ask my husbands :)
     
  20. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,438
    Beverley - Don't forget -there is absolutely no reason why your father can't pay you just as if you were a stranger. Yes you'd have to pay taxes on that money, but then, if anyone is employed, taxes (and NI) have to be paid. Perhaps that not what you're talking about?

    Ishard : Further to the will issue - there is no right to be told what the contents of someone elses will. What I will say is - it would be very rare for solicitor to draw up a codicil (or a new will) in one visit. Normally, you indicate what you want and then return at a later date to sign. My point is - are you sure that this will changing happened? If it did, then she would have been given a copy (the original may be kept by the solicitors).
     

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