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House sale/purchase question

Discussion in 'Legal and financial issues' started by katek, Jan 20, 2015.

  1. katek

    katek Registered User

    Jan 19, 2015
    191
    I have not posted before but have followed other posts for some time and find the site immensely helpful.

    My father has had AD for 10 years. It developed relatively slowly but has been quite severe for the last three years or so. He now qualifies for CHC (he is also sectioned) and is in an NHS unit where the care is second to none. It is a small, quiet unit with one carer/nurse to every three patients and they are all wonderful. The CHC funding is reviewed every six months, and we are aware this could be taken away, but for the moment it seems that he will continue to get it.

    Prior to this my father had been in a residential home for a year (self funding) until they could no longer cope with his behaviour. Since being in the NHS unit (just over a year) his income from his private pension has obviously been mounting up as he does not have to pay anything, although of course if CHC is ever withdrawn he will revert to self-funding and need to use this. (We dread this happening - mainly the thought of him having to leave such a fantastic place and find somewhere else that even comes close, as well as the trauma of moving.)

    Meanwhile my mother still lives in their 4-bedroomed detached house, which she finds too big to manage, heat etc and would really like to downsize. If for example, she bought a flat, I assume that any equity from the sale would have to be split 50:50 with my father's half going into his account. However, recently we have thought that if she is going to move at all, it would make sense for her to move nearer us (we currently live 30 miles apart, with my father's place roughly halfway between). Therein lies the problem. My mother's house is worth about £300,000 max and we live in London where that would not even buy a decent one-bedroomed flat! I have seen a nice one-bedroomed garden flat which would be perfect but it is £400,000.

    My question is, as my mother does not have £100,000 in her own name, would she be entitled to use any of my father's money to help her to purchase what would still be in theory their joint home? Their current home is in joint names and in theoryhe could return to it, even though we know that is highly unlikely. She has power of attorney, but I do not know if she would be allowed to do this. I hope someone may be able to advise me.
     
  2. Kevinl

    Kevinl Registered User

    Aug 24, 2013
    4,665
    Salford
    Hi Katek
    This has been discussed on here before and the conclusion seems to be that she will be allowed to use more than 50% of the proceeds from the sale of the house. Our 2 resident experts Jenniferpa and williamr will no doubt be along soon and will be able to give you all the details, way too complicated for me:)
    K
     
  3. WILLIAMR

    WILLIAMR Account Closed

    Apr 12, 2014
    1,079
    http://www.ageuk.org.uk/Documents/E...rmanent_care_home_provision_fcs.pdf?dtrk=true

    Take a look at paragraph 3.3.
    It looks as if your mother could pay the £300,000 using £100,000 of your father's share.
    It seems a bit difficult to say what will happen with the other £100,000.


    William
     
  4. katek

    katek Registered User

    Jan 19, 2015
    191
    Thank you for your responses, and William - thank you for the link. However, as you say, it is a bit vague on the ruling. Also, it just deals with the question of money tied up in the value of the property, whereas our situation is very unusual - needing to use extra funding to buy somewhere smaller but more suitable. It is really a question as to what would be my mother's rights within her of power of attorney over my father's savings. I suspect they would see it as being to her benefit rather than his, and would not like the idea of his savings not being available for possible future care funding, rather than tied up in a property lived in by my mother, and therefore protected against having to be sold. For lots of reasons, it would be preferable for my mother to be able to live near us, but I fear that may not be possible while my father is still alive.
     
  5. LYN T

    LYN T Registered User

    Aug 30, 2012
    6,967
    Brixham Devon
    I share your reservations Kate. Could you phone your Dad's Local Authority Finance Department? If they agree that it's ok to proceed please get it in writing;) The alternative is to go to the expense of consulting a specialist solicitor-however what they advise, and what an individual LA agrees could be miles apart.

    I wish you every success

    Lyn T
     
  6. WILLIAMR

    WILLIAMR Account Closed

    Apr 12, 2014
    1,079
    #6 WILLIAMR, Jan 21, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2015
    I agree with Lyn here. You should see a specialist solicitor.
    As the home is half way between the 2 properties it could be argued that there would be no benefit your mother using your fathers money to buy a more expensive property.
    That said you may be able to take her to see your father more so it may be argued from that point of view it is for his benefit.
    I know of a case where a daughter was a deputy and she got approval of the Court of Protection to use some of her mother's money to buy a new car.
    The mother had been in a care home on CHC funding for 5+ years, the home was 30 miles from where the daughter lived and she was visiting most days.
    The daughters car had passed its MOT but the garage warned her if that mileage continued the car would need some expensive repairs before the next MOT and it would probably be uneconomic for these repairs to be done because of the value of the car.
    In my opinion I think the COP was correct in allowing the daughter to buy the new car using the mother's money but if the mother had lost her CHC funding and the LA got involved the LA might not have agreed.
    The daughter was 72 and I am sure the mother would have wanted the daughter to have a reliable car to visit her.
    Sadly the mother passed away within a month of the new car being delivered.

    William
     
  7. LYN T

    LYN T Registered User

    Aug 30, 2012
    6,967
    Brixham Devon
    Sorry Kate-I don't think I was making myself clear. I wasn't saying you SHOULD see a specialist solicitor-just another consideration for you. Personally I would think very carefully about doing so as, apart from what could be a considerable expense, their advice could be over ruled by the LA. Sorry if I confused you.
     
  8. WILLIAMR

    WILLIAMR Account Closed

    Apr 12, 2014
    1,079
    To be honest if it was me I would have a half hour consultation with a solicitor.
    Unfortunately LA'S think they can do what they like eg telling me to sell my bungalow to pay step mother's care home fees was entirely unlawful as well as telling offspring to sell a house which was jointly owned with the parent,
    I know the cost would be £100 or so but it may be worth it.


    William
     
  9. katek

    katek Registered User

    Jan 19, 2015
    191
    Thanks for all the advice. I think we will probably wait until the next CHC review before deciding what to do.
     

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