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Help with getting my aunt into a care home

Isabella42

Registered User
May 18, 2015
8
Hello everyone. I've not been on here for quite some time but I originally joined this forum back in 2012 when I was having a horrendous time with my mum who had dementia. Mummy sadly died last October.
I am also the carer for my widowed aunt who lives in London but I live in Northern Ireland. At present I am flying over every few weeks. I'm whacking my head off a brick wall arguing with social services. A mistake was made on the POA 5 years ago. An incorrect date of birth was entered and not noticed. We are not working with a solicitor to get deputy ship. My aunt is well off so will be self funding. After much pleading the social worker did a home visit last Friday and agreed she does not have the capacity to manage her finances but is unwilling to say she lacks the capacity to decide if she should remain in her own home.
I am going round in circles. I have a care home bed waiting for her here in Northern Ireland but they cant take her without proof that she lacks capacity to be there. The social worker says it's up to the family to organise that. The social worker admitted that if there was no family they'd have stepped in by now. I live in fear of getting a phone call telling me something awful has happened. Can anyone advise me what I can do or who I can approach to get this proof of lack of capacity.
 

Tragicuglyducky

Registered User
Apr 4, 2016
65
Hi Isabella, my condolences. I think there’s a bit of missing info here, I’m assuming your aunt doesn’t want to go to the care home and that she’s at risk staying where she is?
I’m currently getting mental capacity assessed for my dad. In my dads borough social services have just come yesterday to assess him. I have yet to hear their findings but within moments of meeting this case worker she had already made up her mind that dad lacks capacity. I was a bit suspicious of this but it was also in my favour so I didn’t say anything. I suspect, with us also being self funded, she just wanted to give me what I wanted so she could get rid of me. The other way of getting mental capacity assessed is by asking a medical practitioner who has the relevant qualifications under the mental health act. We have applied for COP and need this assessment. I spoke to my dads memory clinic and a doctor is coming to see us next Tuesday to do this. As it is a private request it is chargeable - we were given a ballpark figure of £200. You could try speaking to your aunt’s memory clinic and explain the situation and see if they can do similar? If unfortunately she is deemed as having the capacity then you can’t do much more. Obviously this is assuming you’ve tried a bit of well-meaning coercion to convince her to agree to going with you. I think you’d have to wait for things to get worse and for social services to step in and decide she needs 24 hour care. I know that doesn’t make things easier for you, especially given the distance you have to travel to look after her.
 

Grannie G

Volunteer Moderator
Apr 3, 2006
70,638
Kent
I live in fear of getting a phone call telling me something awful has happened.
Have you told the Social Worker this @Isabella42>

I suggest you ask the Social Worker [SW] who would be held accountable if your aunt suffered a crisis while alone in her own home. I would also suggest you tell this SW you cannot continue to fly over indefinitely.

Your aunt is vulnerable and at risk if the SW admitted that if there was no family they'd have stepped in by now.
 

Isabella42

Registered User
May 18, 2015
8
Have you told the Social Worker this @Isabella42>

I suggest you ask the Social Worker [SW] who would be held accountable if your aunt suffered a crisis while alone in her own home. I would also suggest you tell this SW you cannot continue to fly over indefinitely.

Your aunt is vulnerable and at risk if the SW admitted that if there was no family they'd have stepped in by now.
The Social worker is useless. It can take a week to actually get to speak to her. I've put in an email that if anything horrible were to happen I'd be holding them responsible but it has had no effect. My other cousin (by marriage) is also trying to help but she's being given the runaround too. The solicitor is not a specialist in dementia and deprivation of liberty. Meanwhile I have a very confused and scared 83 year lady who is in a terrible state both physically and mentally.
 

Isabella42

Registered User
May 18, 2015
8
The Social worker is useless. It can take a week to actually get to speak to her. I've put in an email that if anything horrible were to happen I'd be holding them responsible but it has had no effect. My other cousin (by marriage) is also trying to help but she's being given the runaround too. The solicitor is not a specialist in dementia and deprivation of liberty. Meanwhile I have a very confused and scared 83 year lady who is in a terrible state both physically and mentally.
 

Isabella42

Registered User
May 18, 2015
8
Hi Isabella, my condolences. I think there’s a bit of missing info here, I’m assuming your aunt doesn’t want to go to the care home and that she’s at risk staying where she is?
I’m currently getting mental capacity assessed for my dad. In my dads borough social services have just come yesterday to assess him. I have yet to hear their findings but within moments of meeting this case worker she had already made up her mind that dad lacks capacity. I was a bit suspicious of this but it was also in my favour so I didn’t say anything. I suspect, with us also being self funded, she just wanted to give me what I wanted so she could get rid of me. The other way of getting mental capacity assessed is by asking a medical practitioner who has the relevant qualifications under the mental health act. We have applied for COP and need this assessment. I spoke to my dads memory clinic and a doctor is coming to see us next Tuesday to do this. As it is a private request it is chargeable - we were given a ballpark figure of £200. You could try speaking to your aunt’s memory clinic and explain the situation and see if they can do similar? If unfortunately she is deemed as having the capacity then you can’t do much more. Obviously this is assuming you’ve tried a bit of well-meaning coercion to convince her to agree to going with you. I think you’d have to wait for things to get worse and for social services to step in and decide she needs 24 hour care. I know that doesn’t make things easier for you, especially given the distance you have to travel to look after her.
The Social worker is useless. It can take a week to actually get to speak to her. I've put in an email that if anything horrible were to happen I'd be holding them responsible but it has had no effect. My other cousin (by marriage) is also trying to help but she's being given the runaround too. The solicitor is not a specialist in dementia and deprivation of liberty. Meanwhile I have a very confused and scared 83 year lady who is in a terrible state both physically and mentally.
Hi Isabella, my condolences. I think there’s a bit of missing info here, I’m assuming your aunt doesn’t want to go to the care home and that she’s at risk staying where she is?
I’m currently getting mental capacity assessed for my dad. In my dads borough social services have just come yesterday to assess him. I have yet to hear their findings but within moments of meeting this case worker she had already made up her mind that dad lacks capacity. I was a bit suspicious of this but it was also in my favour so I didn’t say anything. I suspect, with us also being self funded, she just wanted to give me what I wanted so she could get rid of me. The other way of getting mental capacity assessed is by asking a medical practitioner who has the relevant qualifications under the mental health act. We have applied for COP and need this assessment. I spoke to my dads memory clinic and a doctor is coming to see us next Tuesday to do this. As it is a private request it is chargeable - we were given a ballpark figure of £200. You could try speaking to your aunt’s memory clinic and explain the situation and see if they can do similar? If unfortunately she is deemed as having the capacity then you can’t do much more. Obviously this is assuming you’ve tried a bit of well-meaning coercion to convince her to agree to going with you. I think you’d have to wait for things to get worse and for social services to step in and decide she needs 24 hour care. I know that doesn’t make things easier for you, especially given the distance you have to travel to look after her.
 

Isabella42

Registered User
May 18, 2015
8
She is too far on the journey to be able to decide what she wants for tea let alone anything serious about moving to s care home. She's not eating but has history for eating mouldy out of date pizza.she has no bank cards or bus pass and was not able to tell that social work where the bank was, how she got there or its name. She self presented at her gp 2 weeks ago in a highly distressed state asking the doctor for money claiming she had no money left and didn't know how to get any. The social worker calls me regularly but did not think this was relevant and yet more proof of how my aunt is not coping yet still they pass is from one dept to the other. Memory services are involved and Age Concern are also involved. The house is tidy to OCD levels but I've told them that's old memory as she had always been obsessively house proud. She cant cook, use a microwave, the main door on the oven is smashed so is unable.she lives on junk. Roasted crumpets, biscuits, processed cheese. Doughnuts muffins and cakes make up her dirt. She is very slim and cannot afford to loose anymore weightt.what can I do to break the current wnpasse
 

starryuk

Registered User
Nov 8, 2012
1,305
Hi Isabella,
What a nightmare for you. Could you take your aunt over to NI and get the home itself to do an informal assessment? In which case they might agree to accept her pending the formal asessment? especially as she is self funding....

Just a thought.
 
Last edited:

Grannie G

Volunteer Moderator
Apr 3, 2006
70,638
Kent
Isabella42

All I can suggest is you phone the Helpline.

National Dementia Helpline

0300 222 11 22

Our helpline advisers are here for you.

Helpline opening hours:

Monday to Wednesday 9am – 8pm

Thursday and Friday 9am – 5pm

Saturday and Sunday 10am – 4pm
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
11,594
South coast
You said at the beginning that there was a problems with the POA and you didnt want to apply for deputyship. Does this mean that someone else is applying for deputyship (eg a solicitor)? If this happens it will, unfortunately, make your life a lot harder as whoever has deputyship will control all her assets and if they refuse to pay fees to the care home near you, there wont be much you can do about it.
I think phoning the help line would be a good idea
 

Bod

Registered User
Aug 30, 2013
1,218
Is your Aunt willing to move?
Being self-funding, where she(with your help) chooses to live, is her business.
Would a Home in London be more acceptable to her?
At least then you would know she was being cared for.

Bod
 

Isabella42

Registered User
May 18, 2015
8
Hi Isabella,
What a nightmare for you. Could you take your aunt over to NI and get the home itself to do an informal assessment? In which case they might agree to accept her pending the formal asessment? especially as she is self funding....

Just a thought.
I have a care home bed waiting for her here in Northern Ireland but the care home manager is asking that I provide paperwork to prove she needs EMI care. This is the same home my late mother was in so the manager knows me very well and has met my aunt when I took her to visit my mother about 6 years ago. The issue is actually getting the papers I need to take her home. She has also lost all her bank cards and her bus pass so I have no photo ID. I've checked with both BA and Aer Lingus and neither will take her without photographic ID.
 

Isabella42

Registered User
May 18, 2015
8
You said at the beginning that there was a problems with the POA and you didnt want to apply for deputyship. Does this mean that someone else is applying for deputyship (eg a solicitor)? If this happens it will, unfortunately, make your life a lot harder as whoever has deputyship will control all her assets and if they refuse to pay fees to the care home near you, there wont be much you can do about it.
I think phoning the help line would be a good idea
My late uncle's (her husband) niece was named as POA by him when he was alive. She was named as POA for both of them but there was an error and my aunt's date of birth was entered incorrectly and when Mary (not her actual name) went to register the POA this was picked up. The banks are refusing to recognise it so now Mary is trying to get deputyship sorted but there is a huge back and forward argument as to who is responsible for providing the proof she lacks capacity to manage her finances. Eventually her social worker agreed to do this assessment last Friday. Mary and I are working together in that she is in full agreement that I should take my aunt to Ireland. She has said she will sign the necessary papers for the home to say she has deputyship. I meanwhile am in the process of applying for appointee for her pension so I can use this for her day to day expenses. Mary and I are on good terms but we've never actually met.
 

Isabella42

Registered User
May 18, 2015
8
Is your Aunt willing to move?
Being self-funding, where she(with your help) chooses to live, is her business.
Would a Home in London be more acceptable to her?
At least then you would know she was being cared for.

Bod
She's way beyond being able to choose where she wants to live. She doesn't even have the ability to retain information for more than about 30 seconds and that is no exaggeration. I rang her this morning. The conversation was so disjointed. She has huge holes in her ability to even pull a sentence together so she sticks in the first word that comes to mind. She said she's very lonely and wants to move to Santander. Santander had rang her this morning at my request as she has lost her cards but she thought it was her sister calling and that they had discussed her moving to Santander. She said she wanted to move there but then asked where it was near to. I don't want to place her in a home in London as she would have no one to visit her regularly to take her out and make sure she has all she needs. At present I am flying back and forth to see to her welfare on the understanding that my flights are repaid once my cousin gets deputyship. I saw how the folk in my late mother's care home fared when they did not have at least weekly visits and it was not pleasant and I don't want that for my aunt. I have a place waiting for her in the same care home mummy was in. My aunt visited it and said it was lovely and somewhere she'd be happy to live in.
 

starryuk

Registered User
Nov 8, 2012
1,305
Could your aunt at least sign an application for a replacement bus pass...if that would give her Id for the travel?
It sounds a complete nightmare. I can understand your fury/frustration at the situation. IF you could get her over to NI would it be worth putting her temporarily in a different ch? Not an emi one? Does it definitely have to be emi? Does your aunt have carers in at the moment? How is she getting food and money?
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
11,594
South coast
My late uncle's (her husband) niece was named as POA by him when he was alive. She was named as POA for both of them but there was an error and my aunt's date of birth was entered incorrectly and when Mary (not her actual name) went to register the POA this was picked up. The banks are refusing to recognise it so now Mary is trying to get deputyship sorted but there is a huge back and forward argument as to who is responsible for providing the proof she lacks capacity to manage her finances. Eventually her social worker agreed to do this assessment last Friday. Mary and I are working together in that she is in full agreement that I should take my aunt to Ireland. She has said she will sign the necessary papers for the home to say she has deputyship. I meanwhile am in the process of applying for appointee for her pension so I can use this for her day to day expenses. Mary and I are on good terms but we've never actually met.
Thank you for that explanation Isabella. At least you will be working with the deputy for the same outcome.
The SW signed mums form when I applied for deputyship too. I should imagine that this will also be sufficient for the care home. It can, unfortunately take a while for the court to appoint a deputy, but your niece can ask for it to be fast tracked.
Paperwork can be a nightmare - I do hope you get it sorted soon
 

Isabella41

Registered User
Feb 20, 2012
904
Northern Ireland
Could your aunt at least sign an application for a replacement bus pass...if that would give her Id for the travel?
It sounds a complete nightmare. I can understand your fury/frustration at the situation. IF you could get her over to NI would it be worth putting her temporarily in a different ch? Not an emi one? Does it definitely have to be emi? Does your aunt have carers in at the moment? How is she getting food and money?
It has to be EMI as a regular care home does not lock it's outside doors. If she were to wander off in a strange location she'd be in terrible danger as she has no idea of her address, phone number date of birth or where her family live. I have ordered food online for her. We only realised this week that she no longer knows where the bank is. We've asked a neighbour if they'd be willing to take her to the bank tomorrow but when the neighbour called today my aunt was very vague and didn't appear to know what bank cards were. It very well may come to us having to place her in a temporary care home in the London area while we get whatever we need to take her back home to Ireland. I understand though that finding a place might not be easy as it's my understanding there are long waiting lists for care home beds in London.
 

starryuk

Registered User
Nov 8, 2012
1,305
We have been in a similar position to you, Isabella. Auntie living on cheese and biscuits, us, her only relatives living miles away etc. We have just had to put her in temporary respite after a couple of recent falls. She was housebound though, so no wandering worries. We rang more than 8 care homes before we found one with a vacancy. I do hope you get things sorted soon. It is a very difficult situation for you. Let us know how you get on.
 

LongDistanceCarer10

New member
Jan 5, 2020
7
Hi, I'm a long distance aunty carer too!

We are researching care homes in her home town as she expressed a clear wish to stay there. She had her first visit to one yesterday but apparently announced she couldn't live in a place like that. Sadly she's aware of her memory being bad but not the full impact of her Alzheimer's, which is rapidly making it more and more risky to stay in her own home. I don't know what you do next when you find a nice home with spare rooms and they say "no thanks!".
 

starryuk

Registered User
Nov 8, 2012
1,305
Hello. It is such a difficult stage isn’t it.
We tried to persuade my auntie to go for a short stay at a very local home. We took her in for lunch a few times to get to know the place. Like you, she had no intention of staying, but enjoyed the free lunches. Since her falls she is now in another home a bit further afield. I think she frightened herself and was more receptive to the idea.