Help with evoking a registered LPA without donors wishes

Discussion in 'Legal and financial issues' started by Unique26, Oct 17, 2019.

  1. Unique26

    Unique26 New member

    Oct 17, 2019
    Please help

    My father has onset of dementia and has been diagnosed also with clinical paranoia which is focused almost entirely upon his money. He is in complete denial that he has a problem or that he needs help. He has been assessed 3 times under section 3 of the mental health act, but has not been sectioned as he is not yet deemed to meet the criteria that he will physically harm himself or someone else. He will not accept help from the drs or take medication (he believes they are all in collusion against him). He is a daily visitor to the banks, financial advisor, solicitors and police, claiming that everyone is stealing his money. The police have a watch notice on his address.

    I have a LPA for both finance and health. He has a considerable estate value and is now at significant risk of being scammed as he is being penny wise but pound foolish. He is switching and signing uip to new service deals to save a few pounds but is already locked into contracts so it costs him hundreds. Moreover he trust no one so is carrying all finance docs with him and due to his dementia leaves them behind (he has done this in the bank and police station). He has 4

    Physically dad is fine and able to look after himself. He did file his own teeth down so as to save money on going to the dentist. However his major problem is the combination of forgetting things mixed with his paranoia that people are breaking into his house or accessing his accounts to steal his money.

    He has good and bad days but is getting much worse now. How do I take charge of his financial affairs so that I can make sure they are safe from really being stolen and are tax efficient? He will not accept help, he cant remember that he signed the LPA last year when he was well and will certainly try to cancel it if I act on it.

    I have searched online but cant find out how I go about using the LPA against his wishes. Other than the above he is very switched on (especially on his better days). As soon as I contact the first bank (of which there are many) he will try to get the LPA canceled and accuse me of theft. The whole family is in agreement that he now needs help and I have held off as long as possible. However I now need to step in even if it is against his wishes now. Naturally i can get letters from the banks, dr's police etc about his condition.

    I have fortunately never had to do this before. How do I start using the LPA. Do I have to get permission from the Dr that he is no longer mentally capable to make these decisions. How do I ensure that dad cannot cancel the LPA when I do use it. Do I need to do anything else other than keep good records of actions taken and share them with the family.

    Many thanks. I was not sure where else to get help.
  2. Rosettastone57

    Rosettastone57 Registered User

    Oct 27, 2016
    Others will be along soon with better advice, however if the POA is set up without a clause saying the donor has to have lost capacity before you can use it,then you don't need the donor's permission. You can use it straight away. Hope that makes sense. We did this with my mother-in-law as soon as she signed it and it was registered. As to cancellation by your father, I can't offer any advice on this
  3. Lynmax

    Lynmax Registered User

    Nov 1, 2016
    We have registered my mothers LPA with her bank and she is not aware that we have done so. We moved a considerable amount of money from her current account into a savings account to reduce the amount scammers could steal, closed several direct debits for insurance that she did not need, reduced the amount of cash she can get from her debit card to £100 at a time ( she still know s her PIN number and uses her card), cancelled paper statements so she does not see the changes and scratched off the security numbers from her debit card so she cannot pay for things over the phone.

    Her bank gave thectgreecattorneys a debit cad for her account so we can pay for essential things without involving her ie when I found out she had cancelled her house insurance, I was able to set it up again and we used her money to pay for some security cameras to prevent a string of callers who we knocking at her door to ask for money. I. Can now question everyone who rings her doorbell before she gets to the door.

    I check her accounts online daily to make sure there are no unusual transactions.

    I also went through all her financial paperwork while she was out and took photos of the various share certificates, bank details, insurance policies etc in case she destroys them. I also removed her cheque book which she soon forgot about.

    Mum is not aware of any of these changes as her short term memory is very poor.

    However, it sounds as if your dad would be aware if you did any of these things, my mum was a year ago but has deteriorated this year so is now unaware of our care.
  4. Unique26

    Unique26 New member

    Oct 17, 2019

    Thanks for your reply. Your story sounds so familiar. We have done as much as we can similar to you with photographing key documents and trying to hide documents that if he carried and lost would make it easy for him to be scammed. However he is very alert. We cannot keep acting behind his back. It feels so wrong to lie to him even though it is for his own safety. My biggest concern is if we try to use the power of attorney ( it has no clauses) to lock down his money so that he has it safe . He will simply cancel the pow or go to the banks and undo what we have done Can he do this?
  5. Woohoo

    Woohoo Registered User

    Apr 30, 2019
    South East
    Hi @Unique26 , I’m sorry to hear about what you are going through . You say that it feels wrong to lie and I completely agree but when dealing with this dreadful disease you have to do what is best , you will have to tell love lies to protect him and his estate. I don’t know how it all works but could you call the OPG for advice , have read they are really helpful . Hopefully someone who knows more about this will be along soon.
  6. Bod

    Bod Registered User

    Aug 30, 2013
    If the Dr's are prepared to write that he has lost mental capacity to handle his affairs, then the POA should be safe to use.
    The Banks should freeze his accounts, if they feel he has lost capacity to handle them correctly.
    Should he try to cancel the POA, then the fact that his Dr's deem him not to have capacity will prevent the POA from being overturned.
    You all as a family must be united in going ahead with this.
    It's now about his needs, NOT what he wants. He needs financial security for his future, not the ability to play piggy banks.

  7. Unique26

    Unique26 New member

    Oct 17, 2019
    Thanks everyone for your support. I have followed your advice and spoken to the OPG who were super helpful. You are all correct :) I need a letter stating his mental capacity from his Dr so that he cant cancel the LPA as soon as I start using it. I can then also use this in conjunction with the LPA with the banks etc so that he also does not immediately undo all the the safeguarding measures we put in place.
  8. Lawson58

    Lawson58 Registered User

    Our POAs have specific clauses as to when they can be used or not so it could be worth checking as to what is actually contained in it.

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