help urgently needed on the rules on dementia homes

Discussion in 'ARCHIVE FORUM: Support discussions' started by JeanD, Nov 8, 2008.

  1. Margaret W

    Margaret W Registered User

    Apr 28, 2007
    3,725
    North Derbyshire
    I haven't read all the messages yet, but my first reaction is to get your dad into the home that you want and stuff all the red tape that is going around. All that rubbish about not coping with Alzheimers is daft. Almost every person in a care home nowadays has Alzheimers. If they haven't they are in a community care facility.

    The authorities need to get real.

    Sending this first wtihout reading the rest.

    Margaret
     
  2. Margaret W

    Margaret W Registered User

    Apr 28, 2007
    3,725
    North Derbyshire
    Nursing Homes

    I recently contacted two Nursing Homes and they both honestly admited that they could not cope with my wandering mum any better than the non-nursing home. So basically, there is no facility for my mother other than a loonie-bin if such places still exist. So where does she go?

    Margaret
     
  3. Sandy

    Sandy Registered User

    Mar 23, 2005
    6,847
    Hi JeanD,

    The best advice has already been given - call the Alzheimer's Society's Help Line in the morning.

    Also, your father in entitled to an assessment prior to hospital discharge. It may be that he meets the criteria for continuing care. Another possibility is that the NHS will pay something called a nursing care contribution, which theoretically covers the cost the nursing care given in a private nursing home.

    You might want to look at these fact sheets:

    http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/factsheet/453

    http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/factsheet/452

    As far as care home registration goes, there was a thread on this not too long ago and I believe that both residential and nursing homes can be registered to have a specific number of beds for persons with dementia:

    http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/talkingpoint/discuss/showthread.php?p=162991#post162991

    It used to be possible (I think) for homes to apply for a change to their original registration to allow a specific, named individual with dementia to be cared for. Certainly the manager of the home should understand the legal obligations of her registration.

    Also,the hospital social worker who said that as you were self-funding she had no obligation to assist you in the location of a care home was wrong. We went through this process with my father-in-law about eight months ago. Our SW tried to give this impression, but when I asked her explicitly if she was meant to be assisting us with this process, she said "yes" - even if that only meant giving me a list of homes (half of which were unsuitable).

    Take care,

    Sandy
     
  4. noelphobic

    noelphobic Registered User

    Feb 24, 2006
    3,452
    Liverpool
    My mum was in an EMI care (rather than nursing) home until she broke her hip. She then went into a nursing home which does not specialise in dementia, although they have a sister home on the same site which does. I would have been amazed if the hospital had refused to release my mum to this home - in fact they were probably over the moon to see her go as she would have been seen as a bed blocker. We were more worried that the home we wanted her to go to would not be able to accept her, but luckily they were.

    I hope you manage to get this sorted out soon and that the hospital see sense.
     
  5. Skye

    Skye Registered User

    Aug 29, 2006
    17,000
    SW Scotland
    Margaret, I find that offensive.

    No, loony bins don't exist any longer, and thank heavens for that. They were dreadful places. What have taken their place are modern, purpose-built EMI units. (And yes, the term is still used, by professionals as well as laymen)

    The point is that they are specifically designed for the needs of elderly people with dementia. They are secure, comfortable, and caring. The staff are mental health nurses. My husband is in one, and I would not have him anywhere else.

    Nursing homes provide nursing care, which is what Jean's dad needs, but the staff are not trained in dementia care, and the buildings are not necessarily designed to be secure.

    Please don't be abusive about EMI homes, many of us have loved ones who are well cared for in them.
     
  6. fearful fiona

    fearful fiona Registered User

    Apr 19, 2007
    723
    London
    I log on for the first time in a while (sorry) and am shocked that people still talk in this way.

    We are lucky to be in the 21st century with excellent EMI homes and my Mum is in one and it is a wonderful place. Granted everyone there has a mental health problem but the facilities, the devotion of the staff etc are brilliant. I would not have her anywhere else.
     
  7. mumof3

    mumof3 Registered User

    Feb 6, 2006
    82
    My MIL is also in an EMI unit and has been there for 8 weeks now. To be fair to Margaret I don't think she was referring to EMI units specifically. I read it as being if a nursing home (with specialist dementia care) couldn't cope with her mum, then where could? That was my take on it. The term used was pretty unfortunate though.

    Margaret - I have read a few of your recent postings and you sound really really stressed out with your mum's situation at her care home. Are things still as bad and if so has any consideration been given to evening/night time medication. Is this not something you can discuss with the home?

    JeanD - I hope you get the answers you are looking for re. the nursing home today

    Best wishes all
     
  8. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,429
    I also read it like Mumof3. While there are wonderful homes out there, residential, nursing and EMI it can seem, if you're trying to find somewhere that deals with a specific problem, that 1) no one has encountered this before and 2) you have no options at all. I absolute don't believe that Margaret was casting aspersions on any specific type of home, but expressing her frustration that when confronted with a night time wanderer in a residential setting the options seem to be drug them into a stupor or lock them in.
     
  9. Skye

    Skye Registered User

    Aug 29, 2006
    17,000
    SW Scotland
    I consider that extremely disparaging, and offensive to those of us with loved ones in EMI care.


    My point exactly. Someone who is wandering, and falling down stairs, cannot be adequately cared for in a residential home.

    Apart from transfer to an EMI unit, which would be secure and would have staff trained to deal with these problems, what other solution would you suggest?
     
  10. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,429
    Hazel - you believe that Margaret was referring to an EMI facility while I don't think she was. We're both speculating.
     
  11. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    69,142
    Kent
    I don`t think Margaret was referring to an EMI facility either.

    She said
    This shows she is not fully conversant with types of homes and has also been misinformed.

    So in using the very unfortunate terminology she chose, although unsympathetic and very hurtful to anyone with a mental illness, she could not have meant an EMI unit as a] she doesn`t know what one is and b] if she did, she thinks the term is no longer used.

    I would say to you Margaret, the term `loonie-bin` is certainly no longer used.
     
  12. Skye

    Skye Registered User

    Aug 29, 2006
    17,000
    SW Scotland
    Perhaps if that is the case it would help if Margaret were to read the replies to her own threads?

    http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/talkingpoint/discuss/showthread.php?t=13252

    The discussion from post 26 onwards is gives a clear description of what an EMI unit is.
     
  13. JeanD

    JeanD Registered User

    Sep 16, 2008
    96
    Lincolnshire
    Hello Everyone,

    After a whole day of being told it is out of the question and illegal to send dad to the nursing home, Social Services finally stepped in. We got lucky, and their local manager was at the hospital today. She has been to see the ward sister, and phoned the CSCI. They have agreed it is not a problem as long as the home can meet dad's needs. They have decided it will be OK after all and he is moving tomorrow afternoon !

    I have checked the home myself and believe it will be fine. As I mentioned earlier dad's brother was there for 9 months, bedridden and with dementia, so we know it quite well. I have checked the security arrangements, just in case we can get dad mobile again. I know it is not likely, but I needed to be sure as I really don't want him moved again. We have been told he will not walk again, but then we were told he would not swallow again, and they were wrong about that. He is very poorly now but drinking well, and eating a little. The main thing is we will be able to visit him for longer. Also the little things that are making him suffer now, like the very bright strip lights in the ward. And he can have some music on.

    Thank you all for your support and advice. It really helps a lot to feel informed when it comes to confronting people. I know a lot of you are so busy coping with your own problems, and it is very good of anyone to spare the time to help.

    Jean
     
  14. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    69,142
    Kent
    It is good news Jean.

    I suppose the fact your father is immobile reduces his need for security. It`s a shame you have had so much anxiety and uncertainty but I hope your worries are over, especially as far as residential care for your father.

    I hope the move, when it happens goes well for all of you.

    Love xx
     
  15. Skye

    Skye Registered User

    Aug 29, 2006
    17,000
    SW Scotland
    Jean, that's wonderful news. It's always good when common sense prevails!

    I hope the move goes well tomorrow, and your dad soon feels comfortable in his new home.

    Love,
     
  16. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,429
    I'm glad to hear you were successful Jean. Why do people fell the need to speak with authority about subjects they really know nothing about? A rhetorical question really, but it's too bad that your family had to be put through this for no reason at all. Hope the move goes well.
     
  17. sue38

    sue38 Registered User

    Mar 6, 2007
    10,856
    Wigan, Lancs
    Jean that's really good news. :) I'm just sorry an ill-informed nurse gave you such an anxious weekend that could have been avoided.

    Good luck with the move tomorrow.
     
  18. Lanie

    Lanie Registered User

    Aug 31, 2008
    293
    Surrey
    Hi Jean

    Thats great news, I hope to tomorrow goes well.

    Thinking of you all.

    Lanie
     
  19. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    10,824
    london
    That's such Good new to read :).

    Let us all know please how the move go, how your father getting on xx
     
  20. Sandy

    Sandy Registered User

    Mar 23, 2005
    6,847
    Hi Jean,

    So glad to read your news. It's truly frightening to think how many decisions are made by various professionals based on incorrect or incomplete information. Having the SS manager on the spot and able (and willing) to contact CSCI directly sounds like it made all the difference.

    Hope all goes well for the move. At least you will be able to create a more supportive and individual environment for your father in the NH.

    Was there any comment from the hospital/SW on the NHS contribution to nursing needs or continuting care?

    Take care,

    Sandy
     

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