Help required please about Power of Attorney when menatal capacity has been lost

[Emily M]

Can anyone give information on what to do about Power of Attorney when someone has lost mental capacity?

My mother’s Alzheimer’s has got worse and her husband did not apply for POA. He used to take her to the bank to withdrawn her allowance, but it is getting to the stage when this will no longer be possible. He has been advised to go to the Citizen’s Advice Bureau.

I know he can apply to the Court of Protection and ask to be appointed as a deputy. Any information about this will be appreciated, for example:-

1 Can this be done without a Solicitor with no or little expense?

2 How long will it take for a decision to be reached?

3 What documents are required as evidence?

Many thanks.

 

[Saffie]

Hello.
The answers to your questions are
1: Yes, you can arrange Deputyship yourself without a solicitor. I have done this for my husband myself. The application costs £400.
2: My application took 3 months.
3: In the first instance, I suggest you have a look at the following website as the forms and details can be accessed there.

https://www.gov.uk/court-of-protection

If you have any queries, the people at the CoP are very helpful, though the line ia often busy.

Good luck and do come back with any questions you may have.

 

[Emily M]

Hello.
The answers to your questions are
1: Yes, you can arrange Deputyship yourself without a solicitor. I have done this for my husband myself. The application costs £400.
2: My application took 3 months.
3: In the first instance, I suggest you have a look at the following website as the forms and details can be accessed there.

https://www.gov.uk/court-of-protection

If you have any queries, the people at the CoP are very helpful, though the line ia often busy.

Good luck and do come back with any questions you may have.

Thank you very much for your reply Saffie. I will look at the websites and pass on the information.

EM

 

[canary]

You can do the forms yourself, although I wimped out and got a solicitor to fill in the original form which cost £150. As saffie says it takes about 3months from the time that the Court of Protection receives the form until the court hearing. However, do be aware that there is work to do both before and after that period.

You have to get someone like the GP, memory clinic consultant or SW to fill in a form saying that she has lost capacity. I had trouble with this as mums GP sent the form back (after some delay) saying that they "didnt do this". I eventually got her SW to fill it in, but it all took time. BTW, be aware that if the GP fills in the form s/he is likely to charge. Its a bit of a lottery as to how much - my solicitor told me £50, but I have heard of some GPs charging as much as £180! Mums SW didnt charge anything. You also have to state on the form what her assets are. Mums bank wouldnt tell me, so I had to send the bank another form to find out.

Once the court has appointed you as deputy you have to purchase a bond, which is like insurance in case you misappropriate her money. That cost mum £240 every year (but it depends on how much the assets are - the more she has, the more it costs). I made a mistake on that form and they sent it back, so I had to redo it. I admit that paper shuffling is not my best point and it maybe took longer for me to sort out than others would. I was also unfortunate in that the court hearing took place in December and the papers informing me of it got caught up in the Christmas post, so that I didnt receive them until nearly a month after the hearing. You dont get the official papers until you have successfully purchased the bond, so, in my case, it was 7 or 8 months from the time I first went to see the solicitor until I got the papers. The lady on the other end of the help line was very patient and helpful with my numerous queries

One other thing to mention - you will need to keep records and receipts of all purchases as you will have to send a report back to CoP every year.

 

[Emily M]

You can do the forms yourself, although I wimped out and got a solicitor to fill in the original form which cost £150. As saffie says it takes about 3months from the time that the Court of Protection receives the form until the court hearing. However, do be aware that there is work to do both before and after that period.

You have to get someone like the GP, memory clinic consultant or SW to fill in a form saying that she has lost capacity. I had trouble with this as mums GP sent the form back (after some delay) saying that they "didnt do this". I eventually got her SW to fill it in, but it all took time. BTW, be aware that if the GP fills in the form s/he is likely to charge. Its a bit of a lottery as to how much - my solicitor told me £50, but I have heard of some GPs charging as much as £180! Mums SW didnt charge anything. You also have to state on the form what her assets are. Mums bank wouldnt tell me, so I had to send the bank another form to find out.

Once the court has appointed you as deputy you have to purchase a bond, which is like insurance in case you misappropriate her money. That cost mum £240 every year (but it depends on how much the assets are - the more she has, the more it costs). I made a mistake on that form and they sent it back, so I had to redo it. I admit that paper shuffling is not my best point and it maybe took longer for me to sort out than others would. I was also unfortunate in that the court hearing took place in December and the papers informing me of it got caught up in the Christmas post, so that I didnt receive them until nearly a month after the hearing. You dont get the official papers until you have successfully purchased the bond, so, in my case, it was 7 or 8 months from the time I first went to see the solicitor until I got the papers. The lady on the other end of the help line was very patient and helpful with my numerous queries

One other thing to mention - you will need to keep records and receipts of all purchases as you will have to send a report back to CoP every year.

Thank you for your reply canary.

I can't believe that a GP would charge for this, especially £180! Her husband would certainly need help filling in the form, but members of the family could do that. She doesn't have a lot of money, but what she does have helps them pay the bills. Hopefully as she doesn't have much the bill would cost considerably less than £240 a year. I would have thought it would have been more straight forward as it is my mother's husband who would be applying and he is automatically next of kin.

 

[canary]

Im mums next of kin too, but its complicated because with CoP (unlike Power of Attorney), the person hasnt chosen who is looking after their finances. Its basically the court who holds that power and you get appointed by the CoP to be their deputy and administer mums finances for them - hence why you have to report back each year.

I do wish I had been able to get mum to sort PoA. It would have been much simpler.

 

[Katrine]

Emily, if her income is in the form of state benefits and state pensions then her husband could just apply to DWP to be an Appointee for benefits. This is easy to do and doesn't involve the courts.
https://www.gov.uk/become-appointee-for-someone-claiming-benefits

 

[canary]

I have just had a thought Emily. I had to go for CoP because I had to sell mums bungalow, but if its just a question of accessing her bank account could your dad get added to her account as a third party signatory? He will need to take her to her bank with ID for her and him and she will need to sign various papers to allow this, but it sounds as if she is still able to get there at the moment. It wont cost anything either.


Come to that - if she is still able to get to the bank to sign for her AA, why dont you go for PoA instead of CoP? You can do that DIY too.

 

[canary]

Katrine is right about becoming an appointee for benefits. Ive got this for mum too, but I forgot about it.. It was very easy to do. The man from DWP came out and assessed mum at home. It didnt cost anything and he was lovely. It means that if there is any query about her AA I can talk to DWP on her behalf and I would definitely recommend that your dad gets this. I dont know if the bank would allow him to withdraw it out of her account though.

 

[Emily M]

Thanks to everyone so far for your answers. It seems there are a lot of options and is possible that it may not be too late for POA.

EM

 

[Norfolkgirl]

You can do the forms yourself, although I wimped out and got a solicitor to fill in the original form which cost £150. As saffie says it takes about 3months from the time that the Court of Protection receives the form until the court hearing. However, do be aware that there is work to do both before and after that period.

You have to get someone like the GP, memory clinic consultant or SW to fill in a form saying that she has lost capacity. I had trouble with this as mums GP sent the form back (after some delay) saying that they "didnt do this". I eventually got her SW to fill it in, but it all took time. BTW, be aware that if the GP fills in the form s/he is likely to charge. Its a bit of a lottery as to how much - my solicitor told me £50, but I have heard of some GPs charging as much as £180! Mums SW didnt charge anything. You also have to state on the form what her assets are. Mums bank wouldnt tell me, so I had to send the bank another form to find out.

Once the court has appointed you as deputy you have to purchase a bond, which is like insurance in case you misappropriate her money. That cost mum £240 every year (but it depends on how much the assets are - the more she has, the more it costs). I made a mistake on that form and they sent it back, so I had to redo it. I admit that paper shuffling is not my best point and it maybe took longer for me to sort out than others would. I was also unfortunate in that the court hearing took place in December and the papers informing me of it got caught up in the Christmas post, so that I didnt receive them until nearly a month after the hearing. You dont get the official papers until you have successfully purchased the bond, so, in my case, it was 7 or 8 months from the time I first went to see the solicitor until I got the papers. The lady on the other end of the help line was very patient and helpful with my numerous queries

One other thing to mention - you will need to keep records and receipts of all purchases as you will have to send a report back to CoP every year.

Does anyone know if a private/independent Social Worker (from The British Association of Social Workers http://basw.co.uk/) can be used to certify that the donor has lost capacity (for the purposes of a Deputyship LPA) as is the case of a Local Authority SW?

 

[jenniferpa]

I don't see why not, but your best bet would be to call or email them.

+44 (0) 121 622 3911

online@basw.co.uk

 

[WhiteLady]

I have just had a thought Emily. I had to go for CoP because I had to sell mums bungalow, but if its just a question of accessing her bank account could your dad get added to her account as a third party signatory? He will need to take her to her bank with ID for her and him and she will need to sign various papers to allow this, but it sounds as if she is still able to get there at the moment. It wont cost anything either.


Come to that - if she is still able to get to the bank to sign for her AA, why dont you go for PoA instead of CoP? You can do that DIY too.

This depends if the person has lost mental capacity or not. If they have they cannot authorise a third party signatory on their account. Neither can they apply for a POA.

It would be best if a Court of Protection Order was applied for, and once it is go to the Bank with it and open up a Deputyship account. If you tell the bank now that the lady has lost mental capacity they will have no choice but to freeze the account, and you won't be able to access it until the CPO is obtained.

 

[Emily M]

Apointee of Benefits

I have just spoken to someone from the Department of Work and Pensions who was very helpful. Apparently it is possible to be an appointee of benefits (state benefits only) even when someone has lost mental capacity. The visiting team will give you information and the telephone number of the local office.

The visiting team telephone number is:-

0800 9179149