Help please!

Rosserk

Registered User
Jul 9, 2019
386
Hi all

My mum has dementia and lives with me. Over the last seven days she has been unbearably difficult to deal with. She fixates on things and won’t be distracted. Her latest fix is an old broken watch that can’t be repaired. She insists on going to Tesco to get it fixed. Tesco is 500 yards form my home and she keeps getting out of the house and going to Tesco to ask if someone can fix the watch! She either sneaks out or if I catch her and try to stop her she gets aggressive and I simply can’t fight with her several times a day. Like all dementia patients she doesn’t think there’s anything wrong with her and it’s everyone else who has a problem. She corners me in a room and won’t let me leave and goes on and on repeating the same thing over and over and all I want to do is scream! She’s started sneaking out of the house at night and wandering off, she’s not dressing appropriately for the weather and I am at the end of my tether, I feel like I’m going to have a breakdown!

I called the mental health team to ask for advice and the first thing they said was how much money does your mum have? I was hoping for some guidance on what to do or for her medication to be reviewed so I was taken back when the first thing they asked was how much money does your mum have will she be self funded? I thought they would be able to section her sort her medication and then she could return home, I am surprised they jumped straight to funding! Any advice would be appreciated.
 

Rosettastone57

Registered User
Oct 27, 2016
1,150
Hi all

My mum has dementia and lives with me. Over the last seven days she has been unbearably difficult to deal with. She fixates on things and won’t be distracted. Her latest fix is an old broken watch that can’t be repaired. She insists on going to Tesco to get it fixed. Tesco is 500 yards form my home and she keeps getting out of the house and going to Tesco to ask if someone can fix the watch! She either sneaks out or if I catch her and try to stop her she gets aggressive and I simply can’t fight with her several times a day. Like all dementia patients she doesn’t think there’s anything wrong with her and it’s everyone else who has a problem. She corners me in a room and won’t let me leave and goes on and on repeating the same thing over and over and all I want to do is scream! She’s started sneaking out of the house at night and wandering off, she’s not dressing appropriately for the weather and I am at the end of my tether, I feel like I’m going to have a breakdown!

I called the mental health team to ask for advice and the first thing they said was how much money does your mum have? I was hoping for some guidance on what to do or for her medication to be reviewed so I was taken back when the first thing they asked was how much money does your mum have will she be self funded? I thought they would be able to section her sort her medication and then she could return home, I am surprised they jumped straight to funding! Any advice would be appreciated.
The mental health team were crass, in that response however, I suspect what they're really trying to say,is that your mum has reached the stage of needing 24/7 supervision with a whole team looking after her. No magic answers I'm afraid, but I tend to agree with them. Others will be along soon with better advice regarding sectioning
 
Last edited:

Abbey82

Registered User
Jun 12, 2018
75
Hi there, when my Dad got like that first time around he ended up being sectioned (section 2 assessment) for assessment so they could figure out what was going on with his drugs. We had to go down the route of calling an ambulance and he was assessed in A&E to make sure there was no medical reason (he had to be physically restrained and sedated throughout the process). Eventually he was sectioned and held for 6 weeks, it was the best decision we made, it was b best for Dad and they managed to get on top on his meds and he came home for nearly 3 months. Unfortunately he was sectioned again (section 3 for treatment) and will be unable to come home now, but he will be placed in nursing care under the 117 aftercare act. However, we would prefer him home but again we support this, they have been great with him.

When he was sectioned again, we managed to call out the CPN (Community Psych Nurse) who came and assessed him, she was under the same impression as us and agreed that he needed to go in again. We then waited at home around 6 hours and 3 doctors visited and agreed and sectioned him before an ambulance was called to take him back to the Hospital.

He has been in 3 weeks again now and its the best place for them to sort his medication and its having a positive result again.
 

Canadian Joanne

Volunteer Moderator
Apr 8, 2005
16,242
65
Toronto, Canada
In order to quell the great watch fixing problem, could you have a quiet word with someone at Tesco and they could take the watch from your mother and say they will fix it? then they could say they are waiting for a part. You could then buy her a cheap replacement watch "just for now". My mother kept losing her watches so I kept replacing them with cheap ones.

i realize your mother may well fixate on something else. i do think she needs to be properly assessed and mostly likely have her medications adjusted. Is she on any drugs for behavioural issues now?
 

Rosserk

Registered User
Jul 9, 2019
386
The mental health team were crass, in that response however, I suspect what they're really trying to say,is that your mum has reached the stage of needing 24/7 supervision with a whole team looking after her. No magic answers I'm afraid, but I tend to agree with them. Others will be along soon with better advice regarding sectioning
Thank you, I think she needs to be sectioned so they can get her in the appropriate treatment. I don’t think I can keep her safe because I can’t stop her leaving the house I would have to physically restrain her or lock all the doors and ward off the aggression. I feel like I’m going to have a breakdown I really can’t cope and literally no one will help.
 

Rosserk

Registered User
Jul 9, 2019
386
In order to quell the great watch fixing problem, could you have a quiet word with someone at Tesco and they could take the watch from your mother and say they will fix it? then they could say they are waiting for a part. You could then buy her a cheap replacement watch "just for now". My mother kept losing her watches so I kept replacing them with cheap ones.

i realize your mother may well fixate on something else. i do think she needs to be properly assessed and mostly likely have her medications adjusted. Is she on any drugs for behavioural issues now?
Yes she will just fixate on something else. A week ago it was a crochet hook, she insisted on taking it to Tesco’s and asking them for wool that went on for a week until she moved onto the watch! She really is relentless there is no persuading her otherwise once her mind is set! She will even say I know you’re trying to change the subject and just won’t let it go! She is fixated on my daughter as well, she thinks she is taunting her and says some vicious things about her which are really difficult to listen to.
 

Rosserk

Registered User
Jul 9, 2019
386
Hi there, when my Dad got like that first time around he ended up being sectioned (section 2 assessment) for assessment so they could figure out what was going on with his drugs. We had to go down the route of calling an ambulance and he was assessed in A&E to make sure there was no medical reason (he had to be physically restrained and sedated throughout the process). Eventually he was sectioned and held for 6 weeks, it was the best decision we made, it was b best for Dad and they managed to get on top on his meds and he came home for nearly 3 months. Unfortunately he was sectioned again (section 3 for treatment) and will be unable to come home now, but he will be placed in nursing care under the 117 aftercare act. However, we would prefer him home but again we support this, they have been great with him.

When he was sectioned again, we managed to call out the CPN (Community Psych Nurse) who came and assessed him, she was under the same impression as us and agreed that he needed to go in again. We then waited at home around 6 hours and 3 doctors visited and agreed and sectioned him before an ambulance was called to take him back to the Hospital.

He has been in 3 weeks again now and its the best place for them to sort his medication and its having a positive result again.
Thank you. This is exactly what happened with my dad and is what I believe should happen with my mum. She is really difficult to deal with I feel I will have a breakdown if I don’t get some help x
 

Abbey82

Registered User
Jun 12, 2018
75
Thank you. This is exactly what happened with my dad and is what I believe should happen with my mum. She is really difficult to deal with I feel I will have a breakdown if I don’t get some help x
Rosserk, where are you based ? Do you have a CPN assigned to you ? If all else fails, you can call 999 and request an Ambulance, explain she is a danger to herself and others and then they will be unable to ignore you. We had to do this as above for my Dad, first time around. Second time, he had a CPN assigned to him which made calling them out easier. If I can help, let me know.
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
11,313
South coast
Its the Community Psychiatric Team that you want if your PWD needs a meds review or sectioning, @Rosserk . SS only deal with things like carers , day care and residential care. I suspect that SS thought you were asking about residential care for your PWD, but it was pretty tactless.

Your GP can refer you to the CP team and they will be able to assess your mum.
I must say that when mum got to this stage, I could not keep her safe either and she moved into a care home.
 

Rosserk

Registered User
Jul 9, 2019
386
Its the Community Psychiatric Team that you want if your PWD needs a meds review or sectioning, @Rosserk . SS only deal with things like carers , day care and residential care. I suspect that SS thought you were asking about residential care for your PWD, but it was pretty tactless.

Your GP can refer you to the CP team and they will be able to assess your mum.
I must say that when mum got to this stage, I could not keep her safe either and she moved into a care home.

Hi it was the mental health team I spoke with not SS.
 

Rosserk

Registered User
Jul 9, 2019
386
Its the Community Psychiatric Team that you want if your PWD needs a meds review or sectioning, @Rosserk . SS only deal with things like carers , day care and residential care. I suspect that SS thought you were asking about residential care for your PWD, but it was pretty tactless.

Your GP can refer you to the CP team and they will be able to assess your mum.
I must say that when mum got to this stage, I could not keep her safe either and she moved into a care home.
I called the mental health team she is already registered with them. The person who looks after my mum is away today it was the duty officer I went through too x
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
11,313
South coast
I called the mental health team she is already registered with them.
Sorry, I misread it. That was an extremely unhelpful response from them then, wasnt it? [sigh]
I hope you can get things sorted out soon, because wandering at night this time of year is very worrying, I know
 

Rosserk

Registered User
Jul 9, 2019
386
Sorry, I misread it. That was an extremely unhelpful response from them then, wasnt it? [sigh]
I hope you can get things sorted out soon, because wandering at night this time of year is very worrying, I know

Thanks, yes the getting out is not good, she isn’t always appropriately dressed for the weather and it’s freezing here. Mental health team want me to lock all the doors and use an alarmed mat. The problem is if I try to stop her she starts getting aggressive and nasty and I simply can’t spend all day every day in a confrontation. Also I would have to carry three keys around with me and if there was a fire would all be in trouble. She switched the grill on one day and I only noticed when the fire alarm went off when the handle on the grill melted. It really isn’t that easy to stop a PWD who thinks everyone else is mad from leaving the house particularly as she doesn’t know who I am, as far as she’s concerned I’m a care home manager!
 

Cazzita

Registered User
May 12, 2018
535
Thanks, yes the getting out is not good, she isn’t always appropriately dressed for the weather and it’s freezing here. Mental health team want me to lock all the doors and use an alarmed mat. The problem is if I try to stop her she starts getting aggressive and nasty and I simply can’t spend all day every day in a confrontation. Also I would have to carry three keys around with me and if there was a fire would all be in trouble. She switched the grill on one day and I only noticed when the fire alarm went off when the handle on the grill melted. It really isn’t that easy to stop a PWD who thinks everyone else is mad from leaving the house particularly as she doesn’t know who I am, as far as she’s concerned I’m a care home manager!
OMG @Rosserk - life is just crazy isn't it? You need (like all of us) to put your own mental health and physical safety first. It does sound like your mum needs full time care as nobody could or should put up with this level of 'behaviour' even though they can't help it. You can only help your mum if you are okay first. Good luck with pursuing this, it's so difficult.
 

gizzy0808

New member
Nov 14, 2018
2
Hi there, when my Dad got like that first time around he ended up being sectioned (section 2 assessment) for assessment so they could figure out what was going on with his drugs. We had to go down the route of calling an ambulance and he was assessed in A&E to make sure there was no medical reason (he had to be physically restrained and sedated throughout the process). Eventually he was sectioned and held for 6 weeks, it was the best decision we made, it was b best for Dad and they managed to get on top on his meds and he came home for nearly 3 months. Unfortunately he was sectioned again (section 3 for treatment) and will be unable to come home now, but he will be placed in nursing care under the 117 aftercare act. However, we would prefer him home but again we support this, they have been great with him.

When he was sectioned again, we managed to call out the CPN (Community Psych Nurse) who came and assessed him, she was under the same impression as us and agreed that he needed to go in again. We then waited at home around 6 hours and 3 doctors visited and agreed and sectioned him before an ambulance was called to take him back to the Hospital.

He has been in 3 weeks again now and its the best place for them to sort his medication and its having a positive result again.
Hi Abbey82. It's my first post on the website, so please forgive any inappropriate queries, but your personal experience with your dad resonates strongly with what we've been through with mum (I'm sure there are many, many others, but you're the first unlucky victim I found). Since August mum has been in a MHC as she was initially placed under Section 2, then under Section 3 for her uncooperative, aggressive and sometimes violent behaviour. She has been diagnosed with VD, maybe with a mix of AD. After being told back in October that she would eventually need a Nursing home rather than Residential as her health has declined considerably, and the LSSA setting the wheels in motion with the CCG to look for a home, we've suddenly found out that, on the 10th January, it was decided to take her off Section 3. We'll be contesting that during a meeting on the 28th, but does that mean she would no longer be entitled to the Section 117 after-care? I've done a lot of reading on it, but can't seem to find a definitive answer. Thank you and sincere apologies for gate-crashing the conversation.
 

Abbey82

Registered User
Jun 12, 2018
75
Hi there,

So sorry to hear that, it's no problem at all. I'm not an expert but my experiences and discussions with professionals would lead my to two scenarios;

If the Nursing home requirement is due to issues relating to her Mental Health/Behaviour/Reason for Sectioning then the 117 aftercare would be applicable because she has been Sectioned 3.

If the Nursing Home is because of physical health issues, then 117 aftercare wouldn't be applicable, only in relation to Mental Health. She should still be afforded some aftercare though, even following discharge from section 3.

The 117 would only cease however if someone's condition had been suitably improved or cured (essentially), of course with Dementia, thats never going to happen, even with other health issues.

I think it ultimately depends on the answer to the first two questions, but I would believe some aftercare would be provided, if not all.

My Dad is very physically well, but mentally not, hence the 117 following his section 3.

Have you had a section 3 discharge meeting yet ?

Thanks, Adele

Hi Abbey82. It's my first post on the website, so please forgive any inappropriate queries, but your personal experience with your dad resonates strongly with what we've been through with mum (I'm sure there are many, many others, but you're the first unlucky victim I found). Since August mum has been in a MHC as she was initially placed under Section 2, then under Section 3 for her uncooperative, aggressive and sometimes violent behaviour. She has been diagnosed with VD, maybe with a mix of AD. After being told back in October that she would eventually need a Nursing home rather than Residential as her health has declined considerably, and the LSSA setting the wheels in motion with the CCG to look for a home, we've suddenly found out that, on the 10th January, it was decided to take her off Section 3. We'll be contesting that during a meeting on the 28th, but does that mean she would no longer be entitled to the Section 117 after-care? I've done a lot of reading on it, but can't seem to find a definitive answer. Thank you and sincere apologies for gate-crashing the conversation.
 

gizzy0808

New member
Nov 14, 2018
2
Hi there,

So sorry to hear that, it's no problem at all. I'm not an expert but my experiences and discussions with professionals would lead my to two scenarios;

If the Nursing home requirement is due to issues relating to her Mental Health/Behaviour/Reason for Sectioning then the 117 aftercare would be applicable because she has been Sectioned 3.

If the Nursing Home is because of physical health issues, then 117 aftercare wouldn't be applicable, only in relation to Mental Health. She should still be afforded some aftercare though, even following discharge from section 3.

The 117 would only cease however if someone's condition had been suitably improved or cured (essentially), of course with Dementia, thats never going to happen, even with other health issues.

I think it ultimately depends on the answer to the first two questions, but I would believe some aftercare would be provided, if not all.

My Dad is very physically well, but mentally not, hence the 117 following his section 3.

Have you had a section 3 discharge meeting yet ?

Thanks, Adele
Thank you so much for your reply. We've been told by the MHU team that they wouldn't recommend my mum go back home due to her aggressive behaviour which would likely re-occur due to my dad being the trigger for many of her paranoid thoughts. They initially told the LSSA to look for a residential home, but since that meeting in October, her health is deteriorating due to heart failure, so they now feel a nursing home is more appropriate. Wherever she goes though, her paranoia and aggression will continue (She's currently on 1.5mg Risperidone). Our next meeting is this coming Tuesday when we might be officially told she's off section 3 and what next steps are. Thank you again.