Help needed too late for POA

Discussion in 'ARCHIVE FORUM: Support discussions' started by jack29, Mar 8, 2008.

  1. jack29

    jack29 Registered User

    Mar 8, 2008
    71
    Hi,
    I am a new memeber and I am hopeful someone on the forum can help me.
    My Dad is just about to be dicharged from hospital into a nursing home. He has dementia and various other health problems...heart,diabetic,loss of toes through gangrine etc
    Anyway he needs 24hr nursing care.Social Services say they need to do a fiancial assessment which is fine as I have access to his bank statements. However his pension is made up of various amounts for Attendance Allowance and Disability Allowance etc but I cant find any paperwork that says what amount is paid for what...and they(Pension dept) wont tell me as I do not have POA.Also I have been getting his pension at the post office for him each week and have continued to do this for the last 3 weeks while he has been in hospital....so what happens now as the nursing home will want his pension from now on. I cant pay it into his bank account as I dont have POA to set up payments to the nursing home.I am so confused by what to do....any advice would be welcome.

    Many thanks for reading.
     
  2. connie

    connie Registered User

    Mar 7, 2004
    9,519
    Frinton-on-Sea
    Hello Jack, welcome to TP.
    Just one thing which may help with the above problem.
    This is the time of year DWP send out letters re the increase that will start in April. One these letters is a complete breakdown of how the total amount is made up: i.e Mobility component, Personal care, State Pension.

    Dad should either have just received this, or hopefully any day now. If not, last years letter would be able to be used.
    Hope this helps in just one area.
     
  3. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,439
    #3 jenniferpa, Mar 8, 2008
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2008
    Hi and welcome to Talking Point

    FIrstly - is it possible that you are an appointee? I'm wondering how you're accessing his pension at the moment if you're not. If you're are not, I would suggest contact DWP and asking if it would be possible to set this up - it's not going to solve the long term problems, but it might help in the short term and on the whole I have found the DWP to be rather more helpful (and definitely faster) than the Court of Protection.

    Having said that though, there are only certain amounts given for AA, DLA and pensions, so if it's a question of working out the figures you may be able to do it. I'm assuming you mention DLA and AA because while your father is now over 65, he was first registered as disabled before he was 65 (that's the only way DLA would come into play). I believe if he is receiving both AA and DLA what he is actually getting is the mobility component of DLA. direct.gov.uk has the current rates of all these items.

    Long term you're probably going to have to apply to the court of protection. http://www.publicguardian.gov.uk/about/court-of-protection.htm

    Now there is an option to get an urgent or interim order out of the court - I'm not sure that this would apply in this case - I would be very surprised if social services (who will I imagine be doing the financial assessment) would not have the ability to check exactly what was being paid to your father.

    I suppose what I'm saying is: this won't be the first time social services have been confronted with this situation, and it won't be the last. Don't sign anything, but do point out that you have no way of knowing what your father is receiving and be guided by them (ask here if you have any questions). Incidentally, assuming your father has no assets (or minimal ones) his pension will actually be garnished by social services to offset part of his fees, while AA and DLA will be stopped anyway: you don't get public funds more than once for the same services. He will be allowed to retain approx £20 a week for a personal allowance but that's it.

    Edited to add: The information that SS will be looking for primarily will be about savings and assets - property owned, savings and building society accounts, that sort of thing.
     
  4. jack29

    jack29 Registered User

    Mar 8, 2008
    71
    Thanks for the replies so far.

    With regard to me collecting Dad's pension now, he gave me his card and pin over a year ago and I have always collected his money weekly and passed it to him every Monday. I was looking after him before he went into hospital...I used to call in every morning and evening 7 days a week but I will ask the DWP about the apointee thing, I did not even know that was a possibility.

    Think I will wait and see if Dad gets an update through from the DWP...looked through all his paperwork but can find last years anywhere!

    I do realise that the nursing home will require his pension other the the approx £20 per week....just wondering if they can arrange to collect that directly from the DWP or if it is something I will need to arrange...perhaps the social services worker will help me with that problem?



    Thanks for making me welcome
     
  5. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    10,824
    london
    I am not sure about that , but am sure it would be best to talk to Social services . dose you father have a Social worker ?

    It only need to go to the court of protection if your father has property to sale and saving .

    If you don't mind me asking is SS funding your father care or is he self funding ?
     
  6. jack29

    jack29 Registered User

    Mar 8, 2008
    71
    Magarita thanks for your reply and no ask me anything...I am happy to give any information needed to get help. Dad is living in a council flat (well before going into hospital)but will not be going back there. The social worker from the discharge team at the hospital called me and said the nursing team looking after him has decided he needs full time nursing care and needs to go into a nursing home that offers 24hr nursing and dementia care. SS will be funding the care as Dad does not own any property and only has 2.5K in savings.
    I am just a bit worried that I collect his pension every week at the post office and if I put it into his bank account, he is in no state to set up a DD or SO to pay the nursing home or will the DWP just pay the nursing home direct and if so what happens about the £20 a week he is allowed to keep?
    Sorry there are so many questions but everything seems to be happening so fast and I am not sure where to turn for help with all my questions.

    If you need to know anything else please ask and thanks for your help.
     
  7. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,439
    Steve I had a quick look through CRAG (charging for residential accommodation guide) which is the "bible" about these things but it doesn't specifically address this issue. All I can say is - I am certain sure that there is some system which can be used to pay the necessary funds back to the LA (it would appear that that is how it works - the pension is paid but then it is paid back to the LA less the £20). I definitely wouldn't lose any sleep over it - this must be a fairly common situation. I suspect that it will be done via the appointee system but social services will be able to tell you. Don't worry about it - it's not your responsibility to sort it out (even if you feel it should be).
     
  8. Chrissyan

    Chrissyan Registered User

    Aug 9, 2007
    570
    N E England
    jack29 I am an appointee for my Dad, just looked at the form no phone number on it. But it was issued by the Pension Service. It also states that they must be told if my Dad goes in hospital. Perhaps you need to inform them he is there.
     
  9. jack29

    jack29 Registered User

    Mar 8, 2008
    71
    :)Thanks for the info. I will call the pension service Monday to see how I can be made an appointee and also to inform them that he is in hospital..I never thought about letting them know before so I hope I wont get into any trouble for not doing it before.

    Anyway thanks for all the advice...will keep you updated and may come back with more questions if you dont mind:)
     
  10. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    69,567
    Kent
    Don`t worry, you won`t be in trouble. I drew my neighbours pension for him for ages, with permission from his solicitor, I`ll admit, but there was no problem.

    I was made appointee for my husband and all correspondence is addressed to me. He didn`t like it at first, even though he signed, but now doesn`t even notice.
     
  11. jack29

    jack29 Registered User

    Mar 8, 2008
    71
    #11 jack29, Mar 10, 2008
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2008
    Ok have let the pension service know Dad is in hospital..so one job done. I asked about being his appointee but they said to wait until he is home or in care as they need to visit me at home and him "at home". So do I just continue to collect his pension from the post office like I have been doing? I just dont want to do anything wrong:(

    Also had a call from the SS discharge team at the hospital to say they had visited Dad today and he seemed quite lucid.....and he is not keen to go to a nursing home but he needs to speak to his Brother about it first. The Social worker asked me if I could contact his Brother who Dad had told her lives in Ireland.... I then explained that his Brother died in 1993 and had never lived in Ireland...my worry is that he comes over to people as quite lucid that dont really know him and his circumstances and will he be assessed correctly?
     
  12. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,439
    #12 jenniferpa, Mar 10, 2008
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2008
    I'm afraid that it's not uncommon for people who don't know the person, or their circumstances, to be taken in - I think part of it is what I think of as "time slippage": that is the person in question "slips" back in time. As far as they're concerned it is 1990 or whenever, since that's the time they remember, and they seem to remember it very well so all the details are consistent. Inevitably someone outside the family circle may not recognize that, particularly if the story doesn't have independently verifiable components. My mother often got it into her head that she had to get back to work. However, since for her work was teaching and she was almost 90, it was obvious to all concerned that this was a fantasy. The details of the story though : they were consistent.

    Regarding the pension collection. Why do you need to collect it? If it's to pay bills I think that's fair enough, but if it's question of just stockpiling the cash, would it not be safer in the post office? I wouldn't, for example, just collect it because your father is asking for it - by all means tell him you're collecting it but it would be unwise for him to have it in hospital, and very unwise for it to be left in his home, so why do it? However, if there are bills to be paid then fair enough.

    Edited to add: you know the fact that the SW asked you may mean that he/she is aware that the stories your father is coming up with are not true. The SW is hardly likely to get on the phone to you and say "your father told me such a story" - much more likely to approach you as they have done. I'm not sure how you get over the "yes I can cook, clean, feed myself" hump - just make sure that they verify everything with you, I suppose. Perhaps put all the issues in writing and send it to the social worker?
     
  13. jack29

    jack29 Registered User

    Mar 8, 2008
    71
    Thanks for the reply jennifer...with regard to the pension collection there are a few bills to pay and I need to keep paying his rent until it is decided 100% that he going into a nursing home, my own financial circumstances do not allow me to make these payments myself at the moment. Also I am not sure if there is anything he will need if he does go into the nursing home so I felt it was best to have some available funds.I do not have access to his bank account and he can not sign his name so would be unable to access the bank funds either.

    The social worker said Dad is being assessed again this afternoon so I hope we will know more later. He has already shown them he can barely walk, finds it very difficult to feed himself, cant be upright for long enough to prepare food and can not clean hiself...so we will see what the assessment finds.:rolleyes:
     
  14. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,439
    On that basis I think you should continue with what you're doing - just make sure you keep a record of the outgoings. I think this a quite a common informal arrangement. Strictly speaking - no it's not legitimate but I think if you don't push the information that you're doing this on them, they are unlikely to take action.
     

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