Help! Mum doesn't believe she's got memory issues.

Discussion in 'Welcome and how to use Dementia Talking Point' started by Cornflakegirl, Nov 19, 2019.

  1. Cornflakegirl

    Cornflakegirl New member

    Nov 19, 2019
    Hello there,

    New to this forum so need to give a bit of a back story, but will start by saying I believe my mum has some sort of dementia or Alzheimers - possibly dementia with Lewy Body as it can fluctuate dramatically from day to day, week to week.

    3 years ago my world fell apart when my dear dad died unexpectedly of a subarachnoid brain haemorrhage and cardiac arrest. I was devastated, although he was 81 he seemed very fit and well but had been experiencing episodes of high-blood pressure, he was also very stressed about my mums behaviour and memory which had been 'off' for possibly 2 years.

    Anyway to cut a long story short since my dads death I have become pretty much solely responsible for my mum, although she lives alone still and is able to dress herself, get up, put her make-up on, clean the house etc. However she doesn't go out as has very bad osteoarthritis and only went out with my dad in the car to a nearby shopping centre.I don't drive but my partner takes us both to a shopping centre once a week so she can walk around. I also visit her most days for 2 hours per day and when it's sunny we go for a walk around the block, she's quite frail and can't walk fast.

    Even before my dad died she didn't look after her own finances - she has never paid a bill, used a cash card or done any of this stuff in her life, so I naturally have taken all this on in my dads absence with help from my partner. All her bills are paid by direct debit now, though I have to remind her of this every time a bill comes in as she worries about paying it. I do all her shopping for her, get her prescriptions etc.

    Her memory was bad before my dad died but has deteriorated a rapidly in the last 3 years since his death. She has forgotten entire chunks of her life and has on a couple of occasions over the last year called me to ask where my dad is ... that she hasn't seen him but he's been acting strangely and she doesn't know where he is.

    This has happened on a few occasions and I've had to tell her that my dad is dead. Others times I tried to distract her and go along with it - but then when I see her again she'll asked me what the news was about my dad ... so I have to tell her or she keeps asking. She doesn't get upset really but asks how he died, if she went to the funeral etc.

    Then the next day she'll be fine - well not fine - but she knows my dad has been dead for three years. She will often repeat the same stories to me several times within an hour, with no recollection of having just told me the story. In some her memory is still brilliant - better than mine infact - but she'll forget something we've talked about just the day before. She has no recollection of ever meeting her brothers young children (he got remarried about 18 years ago) and when I tell her that her and my dad used to visit these nephews and nieces quite frequently - she has no memory of the visits or them.

    A few weeks ago she was diagnosed with osteoporosis - the GP surgery texted my mobile as she doesn't have one and so I printed out the message with a date on it with all the information about osteoporosis on it from the NHS website and she read through it, we talked about it in depth. When we spoke about this yesterday she said I'd never given her any information and that she'd never seen it - she'd clearly thrown it away. I'd actually taken a picture of her reading it, as I knew this would happen, she looked at it but said she didn't remember and obviously still thought I was lying.

    Sometimes she says I've said things that I haven't - like she'll call me and say I'd said I was going to call her at 8am when I clearly hadn't said that. She's forgotten the words for things - like the other day she said she'd been eating those orange things I bought her - she meant apricots. A few weeks ago she called me to ask where my son who's 7 was ... she said she'd gone to the toilet and when she'd come back he'd gone and was he with me. Neither of us had seen her that day at all.

    And then every now and again she says my dads been in the house, that he's got into bed with her, that he's acting strangely. Then when I remind her he's passed away she either says 'Yes I know that' or she just accepts it.

    After my dad died it was hell, she was so confused and sad and I struggled with everything - my son was only 4 then (he's now 7) and I work full time from home. When I've tried to address her memory issues with her she gets angry/upset/aggressive and says it's ME that has the bad memory and to stop trying to make out she's going mad. I've tried to approach the subject calmly, said I'm worried about her ... but she doesn't think there's anything wrong and says she has a great memory and if I try and push the issue then we just end up in an argument, she gets upset and I end up feeling awful. She tells me I'm being rude to her and that I'm her mother and I shouldn't be so disrespectful.

    So we're going to the doctors Monday to find out what medication she needs for her recently diagnosed osteoporosis and I'm worried she'd forget to take the tablets, will take too many - she already takes 6 painkillers a day but that's a routine she's used to. I have though several times about gong to see her GP (we are at the same surgery) and addressing my concerns about her memory but feel so guilty about doing so and worried they'll let on that I've been to see them.

    6 months after my dad died I miscarried a baby who had Edwards Syndrome, my partner also lost his job and his mum died recently from osteoporosis and dementia so it hasn't been the best of times. And through it all I've had panic attacks, 2 shingles outbreaks and am trying to juggle her stuff with my work and my 7 year old son.

    I guess my question is ... if she doesn't know there's a problem and won't go to the GP what do I do? She won't hear of having a cleaner or a carer so it's all on me. She has no friends and sees no one aside from me, my partner and my son ... aside from once a week when my other half takes her to the hairdressers (she's been unable to wash her own hair for 10 years because of arthritis).

    All my friends say I need to force her to get help, that I'm making myself ill and it's not fair on my partner or my 7 year old son and they're right but I don't know what to do. She fell and broke her ankle the last week of the school summer holidays and I had 7 weeks of hell having to go and do her bandages morning and afternoon and fit in everything else. I can't force her to get a carer or help but what do I do? We went away for 5 days during the summer and I worried about her falling/her mental state the whole time and every day she told me how depressed she was and how lonely she was.

    I feel like I'm ruining my sons young life, we can't go on a proper holiday and even when I'm with him I'm stressed and tired and distracted. I'm incredibly grateful for the fact she's still able to look after herself in her own home at the moment but I know this will not be the case in a few years time. I want to help her but I also feel so incredibly sad that my 7 year old is not getting the life or the mum he deserves.

    There's no question of her living with us, it wouldn't be fair to my son and to be honest I don't think I could cope, I don't think she could cope either. Our house is a death trap for someone with osteoporosis as he always has friends round bombing around the house, leaving toys everywhere. I have to clear the clutter every time she comes here. I don't know what the future holds, I feel so scared and alone. I have no siblings and there are no family members that can help that she would want to see.

    Any help or advice would be much appreciated.
  2. karaokePete

    karaokePete Registered User

    Jul 23, 2017
    N Ireland
    Hello @Cornflakegirl and welcome to the forum. You have come to the right place for information and support.

    The best thing to do in this situation is have a chat with the GP. Many treatable conditions, such as depression, stress, thyroid problems, vitamin deficiencies etc., can cause dementia like symptoms so it's important to have a check-up. Please don't cause additional stress by jumping to the immediate conclusion that it's dementia. On the other hand, if it is dementia then a diagnosis may open up support for you.

    Here is a link to a Society Fact sheet about the diagnosis issue. Just click the second line to read or print the document

    Assessment and diagnosis (426)
    PDF printable version

    Now that you have found us I hope you will keep posting as the membership has vast collective knowledge and experience.
  3. karaokePete

    karaokePete Registered User

    Jul 23, 2017
    N Ireland
    #3 karaokePete, Nov 19, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2019
    By the way, I hope you have time to take a good look around the site as it is a goldmine for information. When I first joined I read old threads for information but then found the AS Publications list and the page where a post code search can be done to check for support services in ones own area. If you are interested in these, clicking the following links will take you there

    You will see that there are Factsheets that will help with things like getting care needs assessments, deciding the level of care required and sorting out useful things like Wills, Power of Attorney etc., if any of that hasn't already been done. There is also a Dementia Guide in the list.
  4. Bunpoots

    Bunpoots Registered User

    Apr 1, 2016
    Welcome from me too @Cornflakegirl.

    It definitely sounds as though you need to sort out this situation and urgently. I know it’s difficult to get someone who believes there is nothing wrong with them to accept help as I had this with my dad. I got around the problem by introducing a “friend who needed a cleaning job to make ends meet”. Dad didn’t like housework so this was something he would accept. Had it not been cleaner it would have been gardener or whatever I thought he would accept. Actually she was going round to check he was ok and had taken his meds. Dad was capable of cleaning at this time but he enjoyed the company so she kept going.

    When you take your mum to the doctors on Monday perhaps you can take a list of your concerns regarding your mum's memory and behaviour and give it to the doctor to have a look at, or even take it in before Monday if possible, so that you don’t have to discuss your mum’s problems in front of her. Keep it short and to the point but also add that your mum thinks her memory is fine.
    As Pete says it may be a treatable condition and not dementia.

    It’s not sustainable for you to look after a seven year old and care for your mum and you need to think about your own needs and those of your family. It’s all too easy to slip into the caring role and difficult to get out of it. I hope you can find some help.
  5. Cornflakegirl

    Cornflakegirl New member

    Nov 19, 2019
    Thanks so much for your reply - I will go and see the GP, but my concern is that If i can't convince her to see the GP about this issue as she doesn't believe or realise there's a problem ... what do I do. Thanks for advice, I will definitely read through other threads on here and get better informed, many thanks :)
  6. Delphie

    Delphie Registered User

    Dec 14, 2011
    Firstly, have a virtual hug. Sounds like you need one.

    As far as advice, these are some of the things that occured to me as I was reading.

    Your mum sounds just like mine. Mine also absolutely refused to acknowledge that her memory was failing and would get very angry, very quickly, at any suggestion that she wasn't coping. In her imagination her memory was excellent and she had a rich and varied life, the life of an independent woman who was getting on with it. In reality she remembered next to nothing, confabulated constantly, imagined people were hiding in her wardrobes and her fridge was full of food in various stages of decay. And let's not even mention the state of the house or the fact that she stopped washing...

    Anyway, you may find with your mum, as I did with mine, that it was better not to go 'there'. Almost certainly, nothing is going to shift her reality into real reality.

    You already have a bit of an in as far as the GP being involved because of the other health issues, so yes, I would speak to him/her about your concerns. They're unlikely to tell you anything but should listen and shouldn't mention the conversation to your mum. Then if an opportunity presents itself, they might be able to do a short memory test and perhaps even get the ball rolling as far as further tests. Some people react better to this kind of stuff when it's coming from a health professional, so while your mum might get cross with you for mentioning her memory issues, she might react more positively when there's a 'white coat' involved. Ultimately, though, while getting a diagnosis can be helpful, it's not always worth pushing for it. She'll probably forget it before long anyway, won't accept it for the short periods she does remember, and as you said, existing medication is going to be a problem... So do your best and make the GP your friend in all this but if your mum digs her heels in then if she's seen as having capacity no one will do anything she doesn't want doing.

    My second thought is about trying to sort out Power of Attorney, unless that's already in place. Tricky if she thinks she's coping so time for a few porkies. Tell her your're setting one up for yourself, that there's been a lot of publicity about how important this is, invent a scary story about a friend who didn't have one in place, basically try anything your mum might respond to. If you're lucky and she says yes, get someone who has known her for a while to help you out by witnessing her signing the forms. The witness will need to check that your mum understands what she's signing but it can be a very quick "are you happy with your daughter helping you to look after your bills etc" and she doesn't have to remember it.

    The other thing that comes across very strongly from your words is that you're only just coping with it all. You're right, your little boy needs you and he needs you to be healthy and happy. So you might have to find a way of stepping back from doing so much for your mum. Won't be easy. You could contact your/her local social services and flag her up as a vulnerable adult. Explain that you've been doing lots but your own health and family issues mean you have to cut right back. They have a duty of care and should do something, if only assess her. I know she won't want to be assessed but a good social worker might be able to do this anyway. Unfortunately we're back to the capacity issue. If mum's judged to be able to make her own decisions then she'll be left to make them, even the bad ones. But if you manage to make yourself step away a fair bit, it should become pretty apparent, and quite quickly, that she's not actually coping all that well.

    So no, you can't force her to get carers in but you can force the situation that will show this to be vital. I know it probably sounds horrendous and like the last thing you'll want to do, but sometimes it takes a little crisis to create a big change.

    What I really want you to hear is that your mum, without whatever it is that's wrong with her now, would not want you to run yourself into the ground or to take time away from your little boy. None of us mums would want that for our kids. So your friends are right about forcing her to get help, it's just how to do it. You almost certainly won't get there by talking and reasoning, so it's time for action. Or inaction! Imagine you've just broken a leg. Make that two. What happens to mum now? Who are you calling and what are you saying to them? If you can push through an imagines scenario like that, you might get some ideas.

    Lastly, believe me, I know how hard this is. I was trying to support my mum while running a business, bringing up two boys and facing all kinds of abuse from her while she resisted everything I was doing for her, all those things that needed doing to keep her safe. My marrage suffered, my business almost went under and my health took a very long time to recover. In the end things only got better when I lied to her about taking her on holiday and took her to a care home instead.
  7. Ponddweller

    Ponddweller New member

    Jun 20, 2019
    Hi there, I'm relatively new to all this too and still awaiting diagnosis with our Dad. My dad loves being ill and going to the doctor so it wasn't too difficult to get him to go, but we realised that we wouldn't be able to say anything in front of him. I asked to speak to his GP beforehand on the phone so he knew what our concerns were. From browsing around on here I've realised that so many people with dementia present a totally different face to the outside world and can cover things quite convincingly. We did the same thing at the memory clinic and virtually wrote essays on what had been happening and again it really helped give a full picture. Try and get her GP onside and get sneaky. I've seen suggestions on here where the GP calls the PWD in for a vague sort of health check and as others have said, the osteoporosis could be a good "in". As others have said, the diagnosis won't necessarily change anything, but it might help you access more help and also help you with making future decisions. You sound like an amazing daughter but you need to be realistic about what you can do, and having a named disease to base this on may help.
    Ultimately though your life is with your own family. I'm hours away from my Dad but I'm still so resentful that he takes up so much of my time and energy and it's having a horrible effect on my sister who lives nearby. His crises gatecrashed parents evening last night and a coffee with a friend today and I'm not even involved on a daily basis. We are in the process of taking a step back from him and getting in carers and looking at homes.
    This forum is amazing. I've learned so much from other people's experiences. Wishing you the very best luck.
  8. Sirena

    Sirena Registered User

    Feb 27, 2018
    You may not be able to persuade the GP, and even after that you still have to persuade your mother to go to the memory clinic and then for an MRI for a diagnosis. But a diagnosis is not necessarily going to be of much practical help at the moment - the day to day issues will still be the same. But it is worth a try, hopefully the GP will be helpful.

    Have your got lasting power of attorney? If not, I would get your mother to do this asap. You don't have to connect this to her memory problems - me and my OH did ours years ago when we were in our 40s, it's just a sensible thing to do.

    If you have LPA you will then be able to sort out some of the practical issues. You can pay for carers. And you can get her post redirected to you, so that you see all her medical appointments, and she won't need to worry about bills arriving in the post. (My mother missed her first memory clinic appt because they were supposed to send me a copy of the appt letter but didn't - so I found out too late.)

    In terms of her not accepting carers - yes, you do have to force her to accept them, she is never going to agree. Assuming she can afford it, just do it. I never asked my mother, I arranged it and told her a nice lady was coming to help her with things she found difficult, like carrying heavy shopping (use whatever you know she struggles with). Obviously she will expect you to provide this help, but you just have to tell her you can't do it, but - good news - Jenny is coming in tomorrow to help you. Present everything cheerfully as if it's a brilliant idea, avoid sounding anxious or doubtful. It would probably help if you go in the first few times with the carer to get your mother used to the idea. A care agency should be prepared to send the same regular carers so they are familiar faces.

    In terms of trying to 'prove' to her she has memory problems, that is never going to work out. She will not accept it, and it will upset/annoy you both. One of the symptoms of dementia is the inability to accept there is a problem, and you won't overcome that. She's living in a different world now unfortunately, with only intermittent contact with reality. You might find this helpful

    Think in terms of how you can make life easiest for yourself and your mother, even if that means using tactics you would not have used in the past. Best of luck and let us know how you get on.
  9. Cornflakegirl

    Cornflakegirl New member

    Nov 19, 2019
    Thanks for all your comments everyone - I've read and taken comfort from your advice and support. Another tough week. Told mum a month ago she has osteoporosis, we went to the doctors Monday and discussed it all with her. Yesterday when I took her the medication we went through how to take it for an hour and a half. As I was about to leave she said 'well this should hopefully stop me getting osteoporosis then" ... so I said, "but you have got it, you do know you've got osteoporosis don't you?" She said she didn't and I had to go as was late to pick up my son.

    She called that night raving and in a state and said she'd only just found out and that I had told her for the first time when walking out the door. I tried to explain that I had told her a month ago, that we'd talked about it in depth, that she'd talked to doctor about it Monday and she said I was lying and I had never told her.

    It was a horrible conversation and then she called me an hour later and said she didn't want to take the medication and it went on for 2 hours - I missed my sons bedtime and basically spent 3 hours last night on the phone to her with us both losing our temper.

    Today I went around again - I was planning to just let her speak and not pick her up on anything but she kept going on about how she had only just found out yesterday, that I didn't tell her a month ago, and how could I not have told her a month ago so she'd have had time to get used to it. Later we were looking for something else in her diary and out of interest I looked at the 29th of October which was the day I told her to see if she'd written everything down. She'd written several times 'I have osteperosis' so I showed to her as I wanted her to know I HAD told her and hadn't just flippantly announced it whilst running out of the door for the first time yesterday.

    I could see she still wasn't convinced but she stopped saying I hadn't told her. She'd also written that day that 'Pete keeps coming into the room in the morning' - that's my dad who's dead. Feel like I'm losing my mind and tempted to not answer the phone if she calls tonight.
  10. Rosettastone57

    Rosettastone57 Registered User

    Oct 27, 2016
    #10 Rosettastone57, Nov 28, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2019
    Hi @Cornflakegirl if you wait for a person with dementia to agree with you or see your point of view you will wait forever. You will also need to learn to lie ,often called "love lies" or therapeutic untruths on this forum. I realise that dealing with this illness is a steep learning curve but using love lies will often calm a situation down before it escalates. Of course using lies goes against the grain for everyone. If your mum raises the issue again about tablets and medication, just agree with her that yes you should have told her before. She clearly doesn't remember anything from a month ago and of course as far as she's concerned there's absolutely nothing wrong with her. This form of denial has a medical name which I'm sure others will be along shortly to remind me what it is. But basically her brain is damaged and she will never understand what you're trying to explain to her.

    My mother-in-law was very much like this . She often used to claim that my husband and I had never told her things or explained things or told her how to use the phone, when she had clearly lost the capacity to use it. We just used to say oh haven't we told you? I'm sorry we should have done that. Hard I know to do and easy for me to say but it saved a lot of arguments and screaming at us.
  11. Sirena

    Sirena Registered User

    Feb 27, 2018
    Have you had a read through the link I posted above? You will exhaust yourself trying to 'put your mother right' when she forgets things, misunderstands, or accuses you of not telling her. Of course she is wrong, you did tell her - but she cannot remember, and trying to prove her wrong will distress and/or annoy her.

    If you don't already have LPA, please get the paperwork and encourage her to do it now, before it is too late.
  12. Delphie

    Delphie Registered User

    Dec 14, 2011
    I tried writing things down with my mum, so she wouldn't keep accusing me of all sorts. We got her a big wall calendar and I'd write things like 'Delphie coming at 10am' so I wouldn't be screamed at for just turning up when she'd never been told to expect me etc.

    She then started accusing me of writing things down behind her back, so how was she to know whatever...

    I then had her write things down, so I wouldn't be accused of the above. Well, wasn't I the worst daughter in the world, not only lying to my mum about things but also forging her handwriting on the calendar.

    She did let me off the hook sometimes, though, when she thought strangers broke into her house to forge calendar entries in her handwriting...

    In short, you'll never win this one.
  13. GinaW

    GinaW New member

    Nov 28, 2019
    #13 GinaW, Dec 1, 2019 at 4:56 AM
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2019 at 5:03 AM
    My mom is exactly the same, she won't accept she forgets things but I can have the same conversation with her 4 to 5 times or I will tell her something then argue with me I haven't told her, I showed her how to open her front door about a 1000 times as my parents moved in a few months ago so it was all new to her but she still phoned me shouting saying she can't open the door and it's all my fault because I moved them closer to me and I must come straightaway to open the door, she ended up asking a passer by to open her door (luckily it was a neighbour walking his dog) but she told him no one had shown her how to open the door but when I try to arrange things to make her life easier she becomes really aggressive and says shes ok and if she needs any help she will ask - she can't see she needs it now[/QUOTE]
  14. Chrissie B

    Chrissie B Registered User

    Jan 15, 2019
    North Yorkshire
    My mother knew before any of us knew she had memory problems. We knew she forgot things a lot, but put it down to being somewhat unorganized, and I can't remember a time when she wasn't a bit scatty. I think I was the only one in the family who guessed she may have a point since I went very much through the times you guys are going through now. It is a nightmare, but there are times now that I kind of miss the fact that she was able to fight like that, and wish I had played it all at a lot lower key.
    Looking at the more practicable side, my suggestion would be to persuade your parent to allow you to join with internet banking on their behalf, and as soon as possible, talk them into allowing you to have power of attorney, especially as they are in the denial state at the moment.
    List of reasons will be, your parent will have more choice of what they want to do about staying at home if you have control over their finances and health. It's possible your mother is afraid that admitting she had a problem with her memory might mean she is thrown into a care home. It's really a good time at the moment to be on her side.
    Once you have power of attorney, you will be able to visit her doctor on her behalf even if she doesn't want to go, and they will be allowed to talk to you without her being present. At the beginning stages, you will need more help then your parent does.
    My mother went through stages of never taking enough money out to pay things onto the stage where when she did have money she would give it away because she misunderstood the difference between large amounts and small amounts. Losing bank cards and forgetting pin numbers became almost a weekly event. My mother often accused me of blocking her bank card because I didn't trust her rather than admit she had put in the wrong pin number 3 times.
    There comes the time, if it hasn't already started that they forget security questions when it comes to speaking to.
    The self denial stage might be annoying, but at the moment it is one of of your friends. Use words like, I believe you, but just in case someone else doesn't believe you I will be able to be on your side. The big thing about POA is that it needs to be done when your mother can still convince everyone she has full capacity to make decisions.

    I'm at the stage at the moment where I have had to get Social Services involved, and if I hadn't persuaded my mother to allow me full access to her banking via internet banking, the social services would have free access to every decision made by now. They wanted her to have panic button installed when she was beyond the stage of knowing how to use a telephone or a tv remote control anymore. They don't always have the best ideas if left to it.

    Once you have POA and her banking sorted, you can then start to apply for all the things she is entitled to, such has attendance allowance, probably lower rate for now, but it's worth being on the books even if it is only for a small amount. This would pay for a cleaner to come in weekly, it really doesn't matter if your mother needs a cleaner, it's just as cheap to get a cleaner as it is to get a companion in. Get someone privately rather than use an agency, and be nice if they don't always get the cleaning done. I found with my mother that having someone who is willing to sit and do her nails for instance, was just as valuable as having the dusting done.
  15. silver'lantern

    silver'lantern Registered User

    Apr 23, 2019
    first you can get her to gp to get other things dismissed. like UTI as these can cause similar symptoms. but as its an ongoing thing over a long period its just a step in to see the gp really. you can send gp an email/letter prior to an appointment so they can bring the subject up. also as she is argumentative and adamant she doesnt have a problem how about turning it around to you needing are busy with work so you have arrange for 'this person' to call in an offer any help she might need (to help you as you cant get every day at the moment)
    as far as forgetting goes she really does forget and its just not there so no point raging yourself arguing and trying to prove your point. just apologise and say 'ahhh sorry i thought i had but you know now'..... and this might have to be done each time for the same thing too.there is no point adding to your stress trying to prove you were right. its all about keeping her safe and calm and you from unnecessary stress. and also about your family and the needs of you all not just mum.
    make her an appointment at gp then breeze in and say 'dont forget your appointment tomorrow'..... just apologize if she says you didnt tell her. say its for her 'whatever she will believe' the gp having had prior notice should work along with it and know how to get important information so they have an idea whats going on.
    dont try proving her wrong or you right its not worth the stresses. play along or use distraction.
    if it is a dementia having a diagnosis helps getting funds for care/support. but first step is geting her to gp by hook or by crook ;)
    good luck
  16. GinaW

    GinaW New member

    Nov 28, 2019
  17. GinaW

    GinaW New member

    Nov 28, 2019
    Both my parents have social workers and my mom has been offered support with someone to do her shopping, cleaning and even arranging to get an evening meal delivered all being refused by my mom who is very aggressive when it is said, last night at 7.30pm she called as she had left bag on the bus around 3pm which had her post office cards in (both hers and my dads who is currently in hospital with cognitive decline) she also had the pins numbers with them, £200 cash, back door keys, cancelling the cards last night was a nightmare because only my dad can pick up his own card and so I have to try and become an appointee which my mom doesnt want even for my dad, I really am at my wits ends

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