Help B****y families

Taffy

Registered User
Apr 15, 2007
1,314
Dear Sue, what a ordeal for you, hopefully very soon this will be all sorted out, I trust it will end in your favour.Take Care, Taffy.
 

suem

Registered User
Jul 1, 2005
61
Worcestershire
Having had further discussion with my husband, he say's he thought my name was on it !! inspite of 4 people signing it with clearly my name missing!!

If this is changed to include my name and my stepsons, how do I stand with them having access to our joint finances??? It is all very well to say they are only dealing with his half but what is there to stop them milking the accounts when all 3 of us have the same rights without restriction. What benefit is this to my husband when as it is I have power to deal with everything without an EPA??

As far as I can see it just gives my stepsons the opportunity to gain as much as they can while he is alive as they know they only inherit anything if I die before my husband.
 

Grannie G

Volunteer Moderator
Apr 3, 2006
71,743
Kent
jude1950 said:
. If I were in your situation I would open up a sole account in your name and transfer any excess money from joint accounts you are legally able to do this as the account is in your name. !!
Dear suem,

I would take this advice from Jude and do it tomorrow.

My husband , who has Alzheimers, cleared our joint current account last week, and transfered all the funds to an account he opened on his name only. No-one questioned his right to do this.

When I askes how much he had transfered, the cashier couldn`t tell me, as it was on his name and I had no right to it.

It was only with the help of the Bank Manager, my husband`s consent and obvious dismay that he`d done the wrong thing, that the money was transfered back. If my husband hadn`t agreed, I would have been unable to get access to the money.

I hope this helps.
 

Margarita

Registered User
Feb 17, 2006
10,824
london
how do I stand with them having access to our joint finances???

I think its best for you to talk to bank manger , before they do .

I am sure just because they have POA , they can't just gain assess to a joint account without bank asking for your permission & your husband first ( seeing both of you in person ) even if they have POA without restriction

PS jude1950 , Sylvia advice sounds good :D
 
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jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,448
Suem, I can see you're trying to compromise and achieve some kind of peace wuth your stepsons, and good for you, but I have to say what you propose sounds unworkable. It's hard enough managing an EPA with joint attorneys when they're all pulling in same direction, since every single peice of paper needs to be signed by all of them AND they all have to agree. If, on the other hand, you're suggesting that a new epa that would have each of you as attorneys able to act "jointly and severally", I'm not sure how much help that would be. I mean to say, I can definitely see some point in having an EPA drawn up in such a way that if you were unable to fulfill the duty, your stepsons would then perform that duty (my own mother's EPA is drawn up so that if I get run over by a bus, my husband can take over), but would that satisfy them? Actually all sorts of restrictions can be placed in an EPA: it could be written so that (for example) property can't be sold without the agreement of all attorneys, or any transfer of more than a certain amount of money needs to be agreed by all attorneys (stupidly in my opinion, the guradianship site give an example of £1000 which is under half of my mother's monthly nursing home bill, so it seems a trifle unrealistic to me).

Depending on how the "new" EPA is written, and if it is one of the more basic ones, which effectively acts as a regular POA as soon as it is signed, your stepsons will be able to access your joint accounts in the same way as your husband would be able to do if he were well: from the banks point of view they ARE your husband. Do you know if they have done anything with it yet - i.e. have they presented it to the bank? Because if they haven't you need to set up a new account on Monday before they have the opportunity to do so. If they have, I think you may be stymied unless you present the bank with an even newer EPA signed by your husband.

Have you seen a copy of the new EPA incidentally? Because it is possible to write one that does NOT revoke an existing one: essentially it explicily needs to contain language that revokes previous EPAs and with this sloppy a solicitor, it may not. In fact to be fair, becasue of this need this may be why the soliciitor had no problem with drawing up another one: they aren't like wills in this respect. The basic downloadable one from the guardianship website does not, for example, contain the necessary language. In fact, in theory, to revoke an EPA you need to execute a deed of revocation, AND existing attorneys need to be notified of that fact. Has this happened? If there has been no deed of revocation or equivalent, you are in the unenviable position of having multiple potentially legal EPAs in existence. So if you manage to get another EPA drawn up by your husband and signed, bear in mind the need for the deed of revocation.

I have to say, though I agree with Bruce's earlier post: if he doesn't really understand what he's signing, the EPA should have been registered.

Jennifer
 

Rosalind

Registered User
Jul 2, 2005
203
Wiltshire
Hi Sue

When an EPA is registered, the attorneys are obliged to advise anyone else with an interest - I have just had to do that with my three stepdaughters, as their brother and I are joint attorneys. So I don't think the POA could be registered without you having the opportunity to object in the strongest possible terms.

I think you could also query with the respite home about the stepsons taking him out - my husband is in residential care, and they have to ask me if the staff take him anywhere, and I always tell them if anyone else is going to take him out for lunch or whatever. I dare say they said they were his sons, and he recognised them, but my husband recently did not recognise his cousin, and had I not told the home that he was coming I don't think he would have been allowed out./

I do know you can put a caution on property, which means it cannot be sold without your knowledge, but all this is legal guesswork. Think you need good legal advice urgently, and probably to set up a new EPA and register it, although I suspect you too would have to advise the Ugly Stepsons that you were doing it. They then have 30 days to object.

What does your social worker have to say about this?

R
 

suem

Registered User
Jul 1, 2005
61
Worcestershire
Firstly thanks for all the advice given....although the matter is not concluded we have moved on a bit.
While the second EPA is not illegal as it can be changed at anytime before registration the ethics as to how it was drawn are in question. The solicitor should have challenged to why my name was no longer on there when I was a joint owner and the reasons for the change, clearly something that was not done.
As everything is in joint names my stepsons cannot access any accounts without my authority. I took the new EPA to all my banks and building societies and they advised as my name was not on it they would not accept it whether it was registered or not. They have however as a safety net put a stop on all accounts that should anyone try to register an EPA I have to be notified. There is also no way they can touch the house as again it is joint and while they may be able to act for their father they cannot act on my behalf.

I spoke with my husband and stepson yesterday to gauge their understanding of this and it is clear the solicitor has not explained anything. As they did not understand the procedures involved in an EPA.

I have today sent a letter to the solicitor involved. I know he's working for my husband and most likely won't take any notice but I asked why no challenge had been made as it why this was changed and inview of the fact my husband had dementia should he not have ascertained his understanding of the procedure or asked for medical assistance. I also pointed out that no financial institution would act on it!

I think my husband is now thinking about it with a view to reverting back to the original or appointing a neutral person as well as me to act. My stepsons clearly do not have the motive of my husband's interests but only their own financial gain but I do know no matter how they influence my husband they cannot touch anything without me.
 

Skye

Registered User
Aug 29, 2006
17,000
SW Scotland
Well done Sue. You have managed to get the situation clarified, and have ensured that the step-sons can't touch your house or bank accounts. Pretty good going!:)