Heartsick Over Mother's Cruel Comment

Amy in the US

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Feb 28, 2015
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Hi, Ann. You are definitely not alone. A very non-scientific survey of TP will give you scores of examples of people with dementia being very nasty to their family members, and mothers and daughters come up all too often. I've been there too, and I'm very sorry for you and what you're going through. I am another one where my mother would be pleasant and polite to everyone else, and to me if there was anyone about, and then immediately switch into vitriol as soon as we were alone.

It did, slowly, get better. What helped me was to not visit during the worst of her nastiness to me, which correlated exactly with her hospitalization and subsequent move to a care home. It was, of course, all my fault as there was nothing wrong with her, according to my mother, anyway. So after we moved her to the care home, I didn't visit for almost two months, and then kept my visits very short, and never went by myself. As she is better now I can be somewhat more relaxed about this but never take her on an outing by myself and never spend too much time. If I start to get upset I just excuse myself to go to the toilet or get something I "forgot in the car" or whatever, and by the time I come back, she has forgotten what we were talking about. (One benefit to her having no short-term memory.) If I'm really upset, I take some extra time in the loo (she won't remember how long I was gone) and text a friend or relative for support. There's also a lot of deep breathing while I am there, and chocolate and alcohol afterwards. I don't know if any of these strategies would work for you, but thought it couldn't hurt to mention them.

Nothing about dementia is easy.

I am not a medical professional and so you shouldn't pay too much heed to what I say, but have you had "mild cognitive impairment" explained to you? My mother's neurologist has given my mother a diagnosis of MCI as well, but told me that she definitely has Alzheimer's and it is moderately to fairly advanced and she is significantly impaired. He's just not able to "upgrade" her diagnosis right now without a lot of other testing and hospital visits, that would only distress my mother, cost a lot of money, and wouldn't yield any benefit.

He also explained to me that the "mild" in MCI has nothing to do with degree of impairment, but is rather a clinical term to mean number of areas of function that are impacted. (It would have been nice if one of the previous doctors had bothered to tell me that!) See if any of the info from the Alzheimer's people is helpful for you: http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=120

Again, I'm sorry for what you're going through. Please know you're not alone and we are listening to you.
 

Ann422

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Aug 9, 2015
35
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USA
Hello Ann
You are not alone! My mum comes out with nasty comments a lot of the time. In fact about three years before I was finally able to get a formal diagnosis she was worse than she is now. Each day we never know who we are going to be dealing with. pre diagnosis I was so baffled and upset I just could not understand why she was so horrible to me. Looking back I think it must have been the start of her Alzheimer's but when you are on the receiving end of it, it is so hard to deal with.

Kerry:
Thank you for posting this. Yes, without a diagnosis, is 'maybe' even more baffling.
 

Ann422

Registered User
Aug 9, 2015
35
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USA
Hi, Ann. You are definitely not alone. A very non-scientific survey of TP will give you scores of examples of people with dementia being very nasty to their family members, and mothers and daughters come up all too often. I've been there too, and I'm very sorry for you and what you're going through. I am another one where my mother would be pleasant and polite to everyone else, and to me if there was anyone about, and then immediately switch into vitriol as soon as we were alone.

Thank you for the link to MCI. No, nothing about this disease is easy. Mostly on them, but certainly all who love them are affected. Sorry for your pain as well. Mothers and Daughters? Interesting as she told me a few weeks ago she feels the closest to me. I don't want this. I have brothers. I don't like favoritism, in general. Again, this could be the illness speaking. So baffling.
 
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Ann422

Registered User
Aug 9, 2015
35
0
USA
Apologies if this is off topic but what canary said has triggered something in my mind that happened in the early days.

When my Mum was diagnosed with alzheimer's we all (Mum, me and my OH) had a cry and a cuddle together. Around half an hour later she had forgotten about it but needless to say it took a lot longer for us to come to terms with it.

Next thing she had come back into the room with a piece of paper with 'Memory Clinic - NOT Alzheimer's' written on it in her handwriting, with 'NOT' underlined twice. She kept that piece of paper for months and kept showing it to us, convinced that that was what the consultant had told her. From the moment the consultant had told us it was Alzheimer's we never used that word or dementia again in her presence.

She would often say to us 'there's something very wrong with me' but would never elaborate, so yes they do know deep down.

I think the anger and nastiness that they show towards us is pure frustration at themselves. However kind and patient we are towards them, by us trying to help them in their eyes it is telling them that there is something wrong with them.

Yes, I understand. My mother had said "I am losing my mind" and "Don't pay any attention to me" and once, after a mild stroke she said "Im sorry. I have been so nasty to you". What a crazy disease. No wonder I feel so thrown off.

I had told you all that I made the mistake of telling her two days later that what she said hurt me. At first, she said she remembered saying it and that I need not be so sensitive or something to that effect. Then she called my house later, 3 times, and said she would never say such a thing to me and that I need to realize that I am a good person. That she does not know why I feel this way about myself? And that she would Never say such a thing to me. So, there it is.
Memory cover up. "yes I remember saying it" (well how can you "cover" if you are really ill?
 
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carol4444

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Feb 5, 2014
109
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I would love to know why a very kind and loving mother can change and say the most hurtful things, What biological changes could make that happen. Makes me wonder why some people without alzheimers are kindness and light whereas others turn to crime, or are spiteful and jealous. Is it just our brain anatomy that we are born with? We are told it is our formative years that create our 'self'. I wonder if our mums or dads have been victims of spiteful remarks that have lain dormant for a long time only to be regurgitated when they are feeling helpless. My mother can be so hurtful yet I know she still loves me dearly as she will tell me so in her few sane moments when she is not troubled. I anticipate that the sane moments will disappear and I just have to remember them when things are rough. Easier said than done. It can be a lovely day which can be interrupted by a savage phone call, the words can go around in my mind for days however hard I try to fill my brain with nicer thoughts. Perhaps the Alzheimer's society might be persuaded to get some therapists to do a few on line workshops with hints to help us carers to brain train ourselves out of angst. Just a thought...
 

Ann422

Registered User
Aug 9, 2015
35
0
USA
I would love to know why a very kind and loving mother can change and say the most hurtful things, What biological changes could make that happen. Makes me wonder why some people without alzheimers are kindness and light whereas others turn to crime, or are spiteful and jealous. Is it just our brain anatomy that we are born with? We are told it is our formative years that create our 'self'. I wonder if our mums or dads have been victims of spiteful remarks that have lain dormant for a long time only to be regurgitated when they are feeling helpless. My mother can be so hurtful yet I know she still loves me dearly as she will tell me so in her few sane moments when she is not troubled. I anticipate that the sane moments will disappear and I just have to remember them when things are rough. Easier said than done. It can be a lovely day which can be interrupted by a savage phone call, the words can go around in my mind for days however hard I try to fill my brain with nicer thoughts. Perhaps the Alzheimer's society might be persuaded to get some therapists to do a few on line workshops with hints to help us carers to brain train ourselves out of angst. Just a thought...

Carol, yes that would be great. If anyone knows of any workshops (online/live in USA here) , I would be MOST grateful . I realize it is the disease "talking", but like Carol and others here, I wonder how/where it comes from IF the person was always loving and kind. Where does the "hateful comment" such the one that says "I wish you were never born" (not said to me), but IF the person never (when in their right mind felt this way) then where does it come from? I am no doctor or psychologist, but It would seem that everything has to come from some sort of 'frame of reference point'. Iow, if you never thought it, why would it come out now? It is an upsetting prospect. I never doubted her love and do not want to start doing that now.
 

canary

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Feb 25, 2014
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South coast
Carol, yes that would be great. If anyone knows of any workshops (online/live in USA here) , I would be MOST grateful . I realize it is the disease "talking", but like Carol and others here, I wonder how/where it comes from IF the person was always loving and kind. Where does the "hateful comment" such the one that says "I wish you were never born" (not said to me), but IF the person never (when in their right mind felt this way) then where does it come from? I am no doctor or psychologist, but It would seem that everything has to come from some sort of 'frame of reference point'. Iow, if you never thought it, why would it come out now? It is an upsetting prospect. I never doubted her love and do not want to start doing that now.

There is always this fear that what is coming out is their "true self", but it may not be.
If you have a broken calculator you put in a calculation and get really strange answers. You might wonder how the calculator got these figures (Ive had a broken calculator and the answers were just laughable), but basically its because the circuits were damaged and its the same with someone with dementia.
Dont start doubting her love.
xx
 

Cat27

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Feb 27, 2015
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Merseyside
Carol, yes that would be great. If anyone knows of any workshops (online/live in USA here) , I would be MOST grateful . I realize it is the disease "talking", but like Carol and others here, I wonder how/where it comes from IF the person was always loving and kind. Where does the "hateful comment" such the one that says "I wish you were never born" (not said to me), but IF the person never (when in their right mind felt this way) then where does it come from? I am no doctor or psychologist, but It would seem that everything has to come from some sort of 'frame of reference point'. Iow, if you never thought it, why would it come out now? It is an upsetting prospect. I never doubted her love and do not want to start doing that now.

Don't doubt her love.
There are many reasons. Frustration, fear, anger, paranoia as well as the brain circuits being faulty.
It's a vile, vile disease.
 

Ann422

Registered User
Aug 9, 2015
35
0
USA
There is always this fear that what is coming out is their "true self", but it may not be.
If you have a broken calculator you put in a calculation and get really strange answers. You might wonder how the calculator got these figures (Ive had a broken calculator and the answers were just laughable), but basically its because the circuits were damaged and its the same with someone with dementia.
Dont start doubting her love.
xx


Thank you, Canary. Truly need to hear this at this point. I will hold on to this.
((((hugs))))
 

Ann422

Registered User
Aug 9, 2015
35
0
USA
Don't doubt her love.
There are many reasons. Frustration, fear, anger, paranoia as well as the brain circuits being faulty.
It's a vile, vile disease.

Thank you, Cat. You see, I often think it is me. That I have said/done something to hurt her to cause all the comments and the anger. I am trying to reason, but I guess I just cannot do this. I hate this disease. I feel so bad when I read the posts here. I feel bad for all the sufferers and their loved ones. All these feelings: denial (maybe it's not this dementia? After all, we don't have a diagnosis. Then anger, then guilt, then praying that she not suffer (bargaining). It is grieving. It is. I just have no acceptance.
 

Cat27

Registered User
Feb 27, 2015
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Merseyside
Thank you, Cat. You see, I often think it is me. That I have said/done something to hurt her to cause all the comments and the anger. I am trying to reason, but I guess I just cannot do this. I hate this disease. I feel so bad when I read the posts here. I feel bad for all the sufferers and their loved ones. All these feelings: denial (maybe it's not this dementia? After all, we don't have a diagnosis. Then anger, then guilt, then praying that she not suffer (bargaining). It is grieving. It is. I just have no acceptance.

Anticipatory grief & ambiguous grief were discussed recently


http://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/showthread.php?85774-Anticipatory-Grief

http://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/show...2166&highlight=Anticipatory+grief#post1172166
 

canary

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Feb 25, 2014
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South coast
Thank you, Cat. You see, I often think it is me. That I have said/done something to hurt her to cause all the comments and the anger. I am trying to reason, but I guess I just cannot do this. I hate this disease. I feel so bad when I read the posts here. I feel bad for all the sufferers and their loved ones. All these feelings: denial (maybe it's not this dementia? After all, we don't have a diagnosis. Then anger, then guilt, then praying that she not suffer (bargaining). It is grieving. It is. I just have no acceptance.

You have summed it up all so well.
Our heads know this, but out hearts have yet to work it out.
((((hugs)))))
 

Amy in the US

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Feb 28, 2015
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USA
Ann! It's not you, it's not something you have done or not done, it's not something you have said or not said, it is NOT YOUR FAULT.

The blame is solely this horrible disease, and you didn't make that happen.

It's very difficult and I'm so sorry.

You say you are in the States, as am I. Are you familiar with the US Alzheimer's society? They can get you connected with resources in your state/county/city for things like support groups, workshops, et cetera. Apologies if you already know all of this, but I have found support and help through the Alzheimer's society, my local Area Aging Office/Council, and local groups like Jewish Family Services and Catholic Charities, who often run support groups and educational sessions. A combination of the real life support groups and TP are often all that keep me sane. The other things that have been helpful are a therapist, a massage therapist for when I hurt my back (always helpful!), and the support of two or three particularly close family and friends who really "get it" about what this is all like. (Many of the rest mean well but are rubbish in terms of genuine support. It seems to be par for the course.)

The Alzheimer's Association is here: http://www.alz.org and you can call them 24/7 at 1-800-272-3900. Also Google "area office/council on aging" for whatever county you live in and see what they can offer you; mine has been remarkably helpful.

Again, this is not your fault. It's the fault of the MCI/dementia. Her brain isn't working right and you cannot fix it. You may be able to learn ways to interact and respond with her that are calmer/less upsetting, but you cannot "fix" the problem. Please try to be kind with yourself and give yourself time.
 

Tray2283

Registered User
Oct 5, 2015
23
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Hi there , reading these comments certainly hits a note with me.
My mum said the most cruel things to me around 3-4 years ago& we had a very difficult relationship.
When she was finally diagnosed with Alzheimer's I kind of thought this isn't my mum. But looking back she has always favoured my brother (who does nothing)& I think it was what my mum really thought of me. The most hurtful thing she said to me is that no one would want to marry me, what an awful daughter you are, I don't deserve a life as I'm not married, gosh that hurt. Now after 3 years of being her full time carer, our relationship has become different .now I'm the best thing since sliced bread.
She does have the odd outburst but I think its frustration& the disease. We have to take a lot of abuse, but there are good times too.
Oh and by the way someone did want to marry me& we are expecting our first child in January. Guess I'm not so bad


Sent from my iPhone using Talking Point
 

Ann422

Registered User
Aug 9, 2015
35
0
USA
Ann! It's not you, it's not something you have done or not done, it's not something you have said or not said, it is NOT YOUR FAULT.

The blame is solely this horrible disease, and you didn't make that happen.

It's very difficult and I'm so sorry.

You say you are in the States, as am I. Are you familiar with the US Alzheimer's society? They can get you connected with resources in your state/county/city for things like support groups, workshops, et cetera. Apologies if you already know all of this, but I have found support and help through the Alzheimer's society, my local Area Aging Office/Council, and local groups like Jewish Family Services and Catholic Charities, who often run support groups and educational sessions. A combination of the real life support groups and TP are often all that keep me sane. The other things that have been helpful are a therapist, a massage therapist for when I hurt my back (always helpful!), and the support of two or three particularly close family and friends who really "get it" about what this is all like. (Many of the rest mean well but are rubbish in terms of genuine support. It seems to be par for the course.)

The Alzheimer's Association is here: http://www.alz.org and you can call them 24/7 at 1-800-272-3900. Also Google "area office/council on aging" for whatever county you live in and see what they can offer you; mine has been remarkably helpful.

Again, this is not your fault. It's the fault of the MCI/dementia. Her brain isn't working right and you cannot fix it. You may be able to learn ways to interact and respond with her that are calmer/less upsetting, but you cannot "fix" the problem. Please try to be kind with yourself and give yourself time.

Amy (((((thank you so much))))).. I really needed to hear this. I have a brother and he is in major denial. Since, he will not even talk about anything other than 'business' end of it? whatever that is? I find myself alone in all of this. The mother/daughter bond is really amazing and I had/have (I keep going back and forth to she was and , then to, she IS .. oh. This is soo hard. I have one close friend who has really been more hurtful (saying inane things to me) than helpful, so not a friend? A thing like this. Such a major loss makes you look at life in a whole new way that people who have not dealt with loss like this +++ the cruel diseases of congestive heart failure AND (again, possible) dementia that only I see and the one with POA does not/will not see nor have her assessed. It is truly a tough place to be from a lot of angles.

Thank you again, Amy. Thanks to everyone who is so kind. It is a HORRIBLE, CRUEL, EVIL DISEASE! Sorry for the caps but I choose to hate the disease, not the person.
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
25,018
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South coast
I have a brother who is in major denial too.
Mum has been in a CH for 17 months now. He has only been to see her once (near the beginning) in that time. Told me that she was perfectly OK and didnt know why she was in there :mad::(
Only people who have been there understand about dementia.
 

degu68

Registered User
Oct 8, 2015
8
0
London
It was reassuring to read the comments everyone has made. I have been caring for my mum for the past 6 years (diagnosed with small vessel disease). We were always close, even more so when my dad died of lung cancer over 20 years ago, she was my best friend as well as mum. But in the last year her dementia has worsened and she is now so angry and so cruel and nasty, she constantly accuses me of lying and shouts and screams over the smallest things. I find this extremely difficult to deal with and lately seem to be getting as angry as she is and shouting back nasty things. I just feel so low at the moment, everything I do or say seems to start her off, even the most innocuous things. I know this isn't 'my mum' talking but the dementia, but it's like Jekyll and Hyde and I never know how she is going to react. I'm getting to the point that some days I feel I really hate her. Does anyone have any tips on how to deal with this behaviour?
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
25,018
0
South coast
It was reassuring to read the comments everyone has made. I have been caring for my mum for the past 6 years (diagnosed with small vessel disease). We were always close, even more so when my dad died of lung cancer over 20 years ago, she was my best friend as well as mum. But in the last year her dementia has worsened and she is now so angry and so cruel and nasty, she constantly accuses me of lying and shouts and screams over the smallest things. I find this extremely difficult to deal with and lately seem to be getting as angry as she is and shouting back nasty things. I just feel so low at the moment, everything I do or say seems to start her off, even the most innocuous things. I know this isn't 'my mum' talking but the dementia, but it's like Jekyll and Hyde and I never know how she is going to react. I'm getting to the point that some days I feel I really hate her. Does anyone have any tips on how to deal with this behaviour?

Have you come across this?
http://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/show...-with-the-Memory-Impaired&p=413710#post413710
 

Ann422

Registered User
Aug 9, 2015
35
0
USA
It was reassuring to read the comments everyone has made. I have been caring for my mum for the past 6 years (diagnosed with small vessel disease). We were always close, even more so when my dad died of lung cancer over 20 years ago, she was my best friend as well as mum.

Degu:
I want to thank you for posting and I am glad this thread has reassured you. Yes, my mother was my best friend also. You said:
You said:
"But in the last year her dementia has worsened and she is now so angry and so cruel and nasty, she constantly accuses me of lying and shouts and screams over the smallest things. I find this extremely difficult to deal with and lately seem to be getting as angry as she is and shouting back nasty things. I just feel so low at the moment, everything I do or say seems to start her off, even the most innocuous things. I know this isn't 'my mum' talking but the dementia, but it's like Jekyll and Hyde and I never know how she is going to react. I'm getting to the point that some days I feel I really hate her. Does anyone have any tips on how to deal with this behaviour?
"

Degu: I completely relate to the anger and the nasty remarks. My mother will often accuse me of lying but over silly things. For example: she will say is it cold over at your apartment (flat), and I will say no. then she will say "well you are a liar because your hubby told me it was cold over there". I then figured out that he had meant a day ago". So, it is this confused reasoning process that is at work. I have found myself in arguments where I try to explain that I am not being nasty. Now I am finally, not always, learning to just say "okay" or to leave. There is no other way. They do not understand and we are trying because we want them BACK. We want them well again and talking to us they way they always did. I think this is my denial, even though I don't think I am in denial, I am. Because I am trying to get her BACK to the Mom I used to know. And yes,, I remember journaling than even innocuous things will set her off.

How to deal with it? Great question. Not easy. I think I am learning, but I have setbacks to agree, not try to reason or explain, let it go, walk away, hang up the phone by saying goodbye. I think I made a huge breakthrough with the last remark where she said "you are only good for material things". I was angry and hurt for two days. Then I confronted her (bad mistake). At first, she admitted to saying it and told me not to be so sensitive, BUT, the very next day, she said something, and I realized that she never remembered saying it at all and must have been trying to cover up for not remembering. Because she said "I would never say a thing like that to you. You are good ,etc. The point is that we cannot fight with them because we are fighting with their disease when we do that. I don't know if this makes any sense at all, but we cannot fight an illness of the brain. It's taking me almost two years (not sure anymore) to even start to understand that I have to respond differently for her sake and for mine. Not easy. We need do this for our sanity and because we love them. I don't have the answers.

I think those of us new to this and maybe the seasoned people here all need a supportive thread for our own survival. We are grieving. Yes, I think that is what it is. I read the thread on Anticipatory Grieving and that is exactly how I feel. Exactly.

My Thanks again and hope to hear more from all of you.
Ann
 

degu68

Registered User
Oct 8, 2015
8
0
London
Canary, many thanks for the link, I have just read it and I think it will really help, I recognise sooo much and will really try to follow the advice.