Grandad won’t sleep longer than 2 hours

[GrandadsHelper]

Hi all, need some advice please.
My grandad has vascular dementia lives on his own and up until recently has been doing well. He has started waking up during the night, getting up, washing shaving getting dressed and sitting with a cup of tea. He’s had a police escort home at 2.30am due to him wandering about going to the newsagents which opens at 6am. Hence we had cctv and door sensors fitted to monitor him better that send alerts to my phone.
He was up every couple of hours repeating his morning routine, so I’d ring and tell him to go back to bed. As you can imagine this is draining on myself too as I’m getting an alert, getting up myself watching the cctv to see where he is what he’s doing, ringing him, waiting for him to go back to bed, then getting myself back to sleep and then 2 hours later it’s repeating.
I’ve put notes up all over the house “go back to bed if it’s dark” I’ve put notes on the external doors “do not open until it’s light outside”
What can I do to help him sleep through the night? Are sleeping tablets the next stage?
I also care for him during the day so when it gets to 7.30am I turn the cctv alerts off keeping door sensors on, sort my own home and family out and go and spend the day with him returning home around 3pm and go back up at 7pm for night time tablet taking, he then spends the evening watching tv till 10pm and then bedtime starts, waking at midnight, 2am, 4am, 6am and then after that I leave him up.
It’s making him more tired and I think lacking sleep is making him more confused. I’m also like a bear with a sore head due to not sleeping enough. Anyone had any similar experiences?

 

[LadyA]

Welcome, @GrandadsHelper . Gosh, what a lot you have on your plate. My husband used to only sleep for 1 1/2 to 2 hours at a time, during the day and night. Thankfully, as I was here, I was able to just hide keys at night so he couldn't get outside, and he'd just go around the house, sit in the living room, etc. Unfortunately, often he wouldn't be able to find his way back to bed, so I'd have to get up and bring him back. But as it was only the two of us here, I was able to take a nap with him in the afternoons.

Is your grandad in receipt of Attendance Allowance? And the Council Tax discount? If not, I would get those applied for straight away. And I would arrange for a Needs Assessment for him, and a Carer's Assessment for you. I would feel it's time to bring in care, or arrange a Day Centre for at least a couple of days a week. That would give you a break, and would provide outside interest and stimulation for your grandad.

If your grandad is starting to wander at night, that does put him at risk. Eventually, you may have to think of full time care, but initially, contacting Social Services for some help would give you back some time.

 

[GrandadsHelper]

Welcome, @GrandadsHelper . Gosh, what a lot you have on your plate. My husband used to only sleep for 1 1/2 to 2 hours at a time, during the day and night. Thankfully, as I was here, I was able to just hide keys at night so he couldn't get outside, and he'd just go around the house, sit in the living room, etc. Unfortunately, often he wouldn't be able to find his way back to bed, so I'd have to get up and bring him back. But as it was only the two of us here, I was able to take a nap with him in the afternoons.

Is your grandad in receipt of Attendance Allowance? And the Council Tax discount? If not, I would get those applied for straight away. And I would arrange for a Needs Assessment for him, and a Carer's Assessment for you. I would feel it's time to bring in care, or arrange a Day Centre for at least a couple of days a week. That would give you a break, and would provide outside interest and stimulation for your grandad.

If your grandad is starting to wander at night, that does put him at risk. Eventually, you may have to think of full time care, but initially, contacting Social Services for some help would give you back some time.

Thank you for replying,

He does get AA and we got the council tax rebate last week. I am on carers leave from work to look after him.
I’ve spoken to him about day centres but he’s adamant he’s not going and would rather sit at home. I’ve tried the dementia cafe route as well but he would “rather have a brew at home”

Our family have different views on the care home route, I’d prefer him to live with me but my Mother and Aunt want him to go in a care home but don’t think he’s ready yet.

Do you think in the meantime I’m better just leaving him up turning the cctv alerts off and letting him sleep whenever he chooses. Will this do him any harm? He lives in a bungalow and with the door sensor alerts now if he does venture out I can be up there in 10 minutes. He’s safe enough in the house and not doing anything risky that I’m concerned about just he’s not getting a good enough sleep.

 

[abz2005]

Hi Grandadshelper

I'm going through this with my dad I actually started a thread at 2am this morning when he wanted to go to work. He's been retired 20 years.

I have no suggestions unfortunately but I do have a question, where did you buy the sensors for the doors that send alerts to your phone? The only ones I've seen are an alarm type sensor, I don't want an alarm going off in the middle of the night waking the whole house and neighbours.

Again sorry I couldn't offer any advice

 

[GrandadsHelper]

I’ve had the going to work phase too it’s hard work isn’t it.

I got the sensors from maplin £65 ish for the hive starter kit. You need an internet connection in the house. It contains the hive hub a door sensor and a motion sensor. Separate door sensors are also available and you can purchase hive products from Screwfix and other places too. It’s been worth it’s price tag though.

 

[GrandadsHelper]

Hi Grandadshelper

I'm going through this with my dad I actually started a thread at 2am this morning when he wanted to go to work. He's been retired 20 years.

I have no suggestions unfortunately but I do have a question, where did you buy the sensors for the doors that send alerts to your phone? The only ones I've seen are an alarm type sensor, I don't want an alarm going off in the middle of the night waking the whole house and neighbours.

Again sorry I couldn't offer any advice

Forgot to say you also have to have the hive app installed on your phone

 

[marionq]

Forgot to say you also have to have the hive app installed on your phone

That's really important information which I could have used when my husband was in wandering mode.

Could you post this info on the equipment section please for others to spot?

 

[abz2005]

Thank you so much thats just what im looking for I will be up maplins this afternoon

 

[GrandadsHelper]

That's really important information which I could have used when my husband was in wandering mode.

Could you post this info on the equipment section please for others to spot?

Will do it’s been a fantastic buy

 

[Selinacroft]

Speak to Grandad's GP, there are medications that can help even if only sleeping tablets.

 

[Jo Sutton]

Hi GrandadsHelper

I haven't experienced exactly the same as you, but we did have a lot of trouble with my Mum constantly getting up during the night, confusing the time, sometimes panicking and delusional and, of course, constantly packing to 'go home'. I, too, was suffering from lack of sleep.

What helped a lot was establishing a routine. When I hit carer's burnout, SS sent in the START team once a day, at the same time every morning, to get Mum up, washed, dressed, breakfasted, medicated etc. Since then, she's not waking nearly as much at night.

I'm not sure whether it's the routine, or the fact that she's not sleeping-in (which I used to let her do, if she wanted), but it has made a huge difference. Not that she never wakes up at night, but it's far less than she used to and I am getting a lot more sleep

How much of a routine is your Grandad in? If he's left to his own devices and does what he pleases, when he pleases, you may find that establishing set times for things (get up, go to bed, lunch, dinner etc.) helps.

Hugs

Jo xx

 

[Shedrech]

you can also get a carephone system through the LA Adult Services - it doesn't have the cctv link but the 'alarm' goes through to a call centre so that an operator speaks to the resident through the landline link and often this was enough for my dad to go back to bed - the operator also contacts the identified family member (and if they can't get that one, the next down the list) so that you can choose to go out to check or not
the system was linked to a pendant alarm and a door sensor - with smoke and gas alarms fitted
we also had a tracker system, which dad wore as a watch all the time; as he tended to wander around at night he wore the watch in bed - it saved his bacon when he went off into a winter night in literally just his pjs not even slippers or his glasses

@GrandadsHelper do keep trying with the day care, it was great for my dad as he socialised, was looked after and had a good meal (always a draw for my dad); maybe just go with him one day, no announcement, just go as though you are on a typical whatever gets you out of the house, and then take him and leave him as you have some shopping but you'll be back ... and then organise transport if possible - dad actually ended up looking out for the minibus and waving them off when they brought him home
and do have some home care visits, use any ploy to get them in eg a friend visiting you, a friend who needs a bit of extra to tide their family over, for you as you need to look after one of your children for a while so can't get there so early/have to leave earlier (my dad would do anything if he thought it was for me) - all this is to support your granddad but mainly to help YOU - you have your own family to care for and your children NEED YOU - your mum and aunt are actually being thoughtful, it's a massive task to take someone with dementia into your home; and as his daughters, it really is their call to make
if your granddad is safe at night, let him do what he wants and get some sleep yourself - monitoring is all well and good but we can get hooked on it and feel we must check and help out when actually benign neglect is just fine - you or someone will see your granddad later in the morning and so be able to tell how the night has been
I can't help wondering how come you are taking on this amount of care - is it possible to have someone else take on a day or 2 - you will exhaust yourself and you do need to work for your welfare and for your family's financial future - sorry, I appreciate that this is really none of anyone else's business; carers can though begin to believe that they are the only ones who can provide care, to the detriment of their own life and wellbeing and health
best wishes

 

[jennypie]

Hi GrandadsHelper

What a lot you have to do on such little sleep you must be exhausted you can’t go on like that for long. If he’s safe in his bungalow I’d let him sleep where he wants if there’s no alternative so you get some rest.
Could you just take him to a day centre it’s no good asking or he probably will say no , go with him stay a while have a coffee and then leave him longer next time itl do you both good .

 

[Fullticket]

I agree with Shedrech to keep in mind the day care. When asked IF she wants to go mum always says no but when I'm assertive and she's taken there she really enjoys it. Yes, we go through all the faffing and bad words (her to me!) about getting up, washing, dressing, breakfasting and there are days when I think I'll just leave her to it but Monday to Friday she has things to go to and I can carry on working part time (I have to work to feed and maintain myself and OH). This weekday routine wears her out and so OH and I usually now get a good 6 hours sleep without too much disturbance.

 

[GrandadsHelper]

Speak to Grandad's GP, there are medications that can help even if only sleeping tablets.

Thank you I think it’s going to be the best option

 

[GrandadsHelper]

Hi GrandadsHelper

I haven't experienced exactly the same as you, but we did have a lot of trouble with my Mum constantly getting up during the night, confusing the time, sometimes panicking and delusional and, of course, constantly packing to 'go home'. I, too, was suffering from lack of sleep.

What helped a lot was establishing a routine. When I hit carer's burnout, SS sent in the START team once a day, at the same time every morning, to get Mum up, washed, dressed, breakfasted, medicated etc. Since then, she's not waking nearly as much at night.

I'm not sure whether it's the routine, or the fact that she's not sleeping-in (which I used to let her do, if she wanted), but it has made a huge difference. Not that she never wakes up at night, but it's far less than she used to and I am getting a lot more sleep

How much of a routine is your Grandad in? If he's left to his own devices and does what he pleases, when he pleases, you may find that establishing set times for things (get up, go to bed, lunch, dinner etc.) helps.

Hugs

Jo xx

He is in pretty much the same routine every day but adamant he doesn’t want to go day centres or socialising, I struggle to get him to go to a cafe for a coffee. I think he likes being in familiar surroundings. Thank you for your reply and i will try and get more of a set timetable to see if it does help.

 

[GrandadsHelper]

you can also get a carephone system through the LA Adult Services - it doesn't have the cctv link but the 'alarm' goes through to a call centre so that an operator speaks to the resident through the landline link and often this was enough for my dad to go back to bed - the operator also contacts the identified family member (and if they can't get that one, the next down the list) so that you can choose to go out to check or not
the system was linked to a pendant alarm and a door sensor - with smoke and gas alarms fitted
we also had a tracker system, which dad wore as a watch all the time; as he tended to wander around at night he wore the watch in bed - it saved his bacon when he went off into a winter night in literally just his pjs not even slippers or his glasses

@GrandadsHelper do keep trying with the day care, it was great for my dad as he socialised, was looked after and had a good meal (always a draw for my dad); maybe just go with him one day, no announcement, just go as though you are on a typical whatever gets you out of the house, and then take him and leave him as you have some shopping but you'll be back ... and then organise transport if possible - dad actually ended up looking out for the minibus and waving them off when they brought him home
and do have some home care visits, use any ploy to get them in eg a friend visiting you, a friend who needs a bit of extra to tide their family over, for you as you need to look after one of your children for a while so can't get there so early/have to leave earlier (my dad would do anything if he thought it was for me) - all this is to support your granddad but mainly to help YOU - you have your own family to care for and your children NEED YOU - your mum and aunt are actually being thoughtful, it's a massive task to take someone with dementia into your home; and as his daughters, it really is their call to make
if your granddad is safe at night, let him do what he wants and get some sleep yourself - monitoring is all well and good but we can get hooked on it and feel we must check and help out when actually benign neglect is just fine - you or someone will see your granddad later in the morning and so be able to tell how the night has been
I can't help wondering how come you are taking on this amount of care - is it possible to have someone else take on a day or 2 - you will exhaust yourself and you do need to work for your welfare and for your family's financial future - sorry, I appreciate that this is really none of anyone else's business; carers can though begin to believe that they are the only ones who can provide care, to the detriment of their own life and wellbeing and health
best wishes

I’m going to turn the cctv notifications off tonight and just use the sensor notifications, surely if he’s tired he will sleep, I’ve put up notes on every light switch and door. Hopefully he will go back to bed without me calling. Thank you for your reply it all feels new to me as of yet so very grateful for your advice.