Funding for long term care

Discussion in 'ARCHIVE FORUM: Support discussions' started by BazCare, Jan 14, 2007.

  1. BazCare

    BazCare Registered User

    Jul 2, 2006
    33
    Surrey
    #1 BazCare, Jan 14, 2007
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2007
    Hello everybody again and a belated happy new year to you all.
    I came across this link in an article sent to me yesterday by a dear friend of mine and I thought it might be of interest to all of you who are either already paying care home fees or like myself, in the process of finding the funding to cover the cost of a care home in the future. Like many of you fellow carers, my father’s financial situation means that if and when the time comes (hopefully much much later rather than sooner) that he needs full 24hr care then he will have to pay for it out of his savings and be forced to sell his house. This landmark ruling against a Primary Care Trust will hopefully pave the way for myself and others to challenge the NHS when they say that Alzheimer’s suffers who have saved for their old age during their working lives are not eligible for state funding.
    Here is the link:

    http://www.careandhealth.com/Pages/Story.aspx?StoryID=deb674dd-69e0-4968-b854-0050aa2ac0bc
     
  2. noelphobic

    noelphobic Registered User

    Feb 24, 2006
    3,452
    Liverpool
    I think the problem is that these cases we hear about are being settled on an ad hoc basis and the regulations are not being changed. So as things stand the only way to challenge this is to take your own case to court.

    I sometimes wonder who pays for this - I know that if you win the other party would presumably be liable to pay - but what happens if you don't! I certainly couldn't risk my own money on a court case but don't know whether I could legally use my mum's either.
     
  3. CraigC

    CraigC Registered User

    Mar 21, 2003
    6,630
    London
    #3 CraigC, Jan 14, 2007
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2007
    Hi All,

    I'm doing a lot of investigation at the moment as we are aware that the money WILL run out in the not too distant future.

    Both mum and dad are in care and I'm at a loss as to what to do long term.

    This article was published in the independent 13th Jan 2007:

    How the State is overcharging families for long-term care


    And another in the Guardian 6th Jan 2007:

    Landmark case could bring refunds to families who fund nursing care


    Please forward your experiences if you can find the time as it will help fight this frustrating cause. Every local authority seems to handle it differently.

    Also, does anyone know what was meant by "immediate needs annuity" referenced in the first Independent article (see above link).

    Many thanks
    Craig
     
  4. Susi T

    Susi T Registered User

    Jan 12, 2007
    64
    Leamington Spa
    This is a subject of great interest to me, I live with my Dad and at present the house is in his name, as our situation stands at the moment he is managable, however, I am going to have to involve Social Services in the near future, hopefully an assessment. I have broached the subject of putting my name, jointly on the house with himself, today he is in agreement with that, however, he was in agreement when I had my name put on his bank account, now every so often i am accused of having his money. I am also looking at Power of Attorney. Any advise please would be gratefully received. Thanks Susi T
     
  5. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,439
    #5 jenniferpa, Jan 14, 2007
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2007
    Yes I do. An "Immediate needs annuity" is something you purchase that immediately starts to pay out. Say you pay £30000, then depending on the health of the insured, you get so much a month. This is one area where is pays to be in worse health. The less life expectancy you have, the more money a month. There are different versions - some have a residual guarantee (where you get money back if the insured dies), some have automatic inflation buffers. Any money paid out, if paid to a nursing home, is free of taxes, even if you've used up the original deposit - you are guranteed to get so much money a month until you die. I'm sending you a PM (or I will when I find the information I have)

    Jennifer

    Edited to add: here a link to a telegraph article
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2003/02/08/cmcar08.xml
     
  6. TinaT

    TinaT Registered User

    Sep 27, 2006
    7,095
    Bolton
    Funding Long Term Care

    Please forgive me if I am speaking from ignorance but I wonder if the Alzheimer's Society has an organised campaign against forced self funding/ partial funding of long term care? Or is there any other organisation concerned and fighting for people suffering from this terrible situation? I ask this as a very dear friend of mine has just found out that she will have to contribute to her husband's Nursing Home fees. This would be a great financial hardship for her. I have a vested interest in this cause as my husband will be needing long term care at some stage in the future and I want to do all I can to support and help any organisation which has such a campaign already in progress. It seems to me that there is a need for combining all such sufferers under one banner as only in this way, can we even begin to make an impact and raise the profile of this terrible injustice. I have read many individual cases where funding has caused financial distress, and of one or two who have had the stamina, financial determination and passion to take Local Health Authorities to court under their own individual banner. United we stand - Divided we fall!!
     
  7. connie

    connie Registered User

    Mar 7, 2004
    9,519
    Frinton-on-Sea
    Jennifer, if you could possibility PM me with that information at the same time as Craig, I would be so grateful. Thanks,
     
  8. Norman

    Norman Registered User

    Oct 9, 2003
    4,348
    Birmingham Hades
    Jennifer
    could you let me have that info please?
    Norman
     
  9. TinaT

    TinaT Registered User

    Sep 27, 2006
    7,095
    Bolton
    Excellent!!

    Many thanks Nadia and Norman for the links you have supplied. Just what I needed.
    xxTinaT
     
  10. CraigC

    CraigC Registered User

    Mar 21, 2003
    6,630
    London
    Yes, many thanks for the timely link Nada.
    The link to the alzheimers society page has a draft letter for sending to the PCT.

    Many many thanks
    Craig
     
  11. Helena

    Helena Registered User

    May 24, 2006
    715
    As I have said repeatedly on this board

    Its illegal for this government to try and charge ill people for care

    The 1946 NHS Act hjas not been repealed or altered
    Dementia patients are no different to any other sick person they are entitled to continuing care

    see www.************
     
  12. Lucille

    Lucille Registered User

    Sep 10, 2005
    542
    Hello all

    Can anyone tell me what happens to people who don't have any assets to fund their own care? My mum wouldn't even pass the means test of £12,750! And I don't have the funds to pay. I'm looking into the future a bit here, which is something I don't often do with this disease. However, I've been reading the various posts with interest and just wondered ...

    Thanks.
     
  13. Lucille

    Lucille Registered User

    Sep 10, 2005
    542
    Thanks, Nada. I'll take a looksee. Forewarned is forearmed ...
     
  14. janishere

    janishere Guest

    TinaT Here is the Campaign You Are Looking for

    Tina T - here is the campaign you are looking for - it is: www.fightthebureaucracy.co.uk

    There is also an active msn group - here is the link:
    http://groups.msn.com/Freenursingcareinformation

    You have already been referred by a previous poster to the nhscareinfo site. These sites and links are solely concerned with the specialist area of NHS fully funded care. I have discovered that 25 per cent of care home places are fully funded by the NHS already, so it is far from being hopeless.
     
  15. Helena

    Helena Registered User

    May 24, 2006
    715
    The 25% whose care home bils are paid for by the state are the ones without any assetts

    You will find that in many homes across the South where Social Services only pay 450 a week for those without assets the patients forced to sell their homes to pay for care are charged up to 700 a week thus subsidising the rest

    This is clearly blatantly unfair

    Why should someone who has been prudent and saved or sttrugglede to buy their home out of taxed income now be forced to illegally pay for care and subsidise those paid for by the state as well
     
  16. noelphobic

    noelphobic Registered User

    Feb 24, 2006
    3,452
    Liverpool
     
  17. Nels

    Nels Registered User

    Jul 25, 2006
    61
    Romford Essex
    I can see both sides of this as MIL will be self-funding, probably very soon, and my mum is not, could I just ask people to remember that not everyone who has not got any assets is a spendthrift etc, my father suffered from early onset Parkinsons (he was 31 when he first became ill and eventually diagnosed 3 years later thanks to a very astute medical student) he could no longer work as a carpenter and as they married late they were still living with his mother so did not own their own home, this had to be sold when she went into care much later, so they moved into council accommodation. Mother cared for my father and my sister who has learning difficulties etc as well as taking on numerous cleaning jobs just to make ends meet for many years. Much as she would have liked to have saved it was just not possible with 2 children and dad to care for, there was also not the financial support or practical support available then and it was only much later when that I claimed attendance allowance and mobility for them, he was actually turned down initially....... even though he was in a wheelchair as he insisted on walking into the room, 'they need to see what I can do'.

    Sorry for the rant but my mum has had a very difficult life, through no fault of her own and as I said I am now looking into care for MIL who will have to self-fund so I can see how unfair the system is.
     
  18. Clive

    Clive Registered User

    Nov 7, 2004
    716
    Hi Nels.

    Sorry to hear about your dad. We have to be a caring society and help people who have not had the best chance. It’s just that the NHS / Social Services means test system is so unfair on others who have also tried to do their best.

    Dad’s health was damaged during the war and he expected (justifiably) to die early. He worried about leaving mum destitute, so saving came first. To save money he did not smoke, drink or have proper holidays and the family lived on stews etc. He could not stop and even worked part time from 65 to 70. When he died I found 7 life insurance policies and a private pension that dad had changed to pay out less whilst he was alive so that it continued to pay out for mum.

    The result of all these sacrifices is that mum, suffering from Alzheimer’s, had to pay for the care she received at home, and now has to pay £550 week for her stay in the EMI residential home.

    As I said to my MP, it sounds fair to say she is being means tested, but in fact what the Government is doing is tantamount to taxing Dads earnings at a rate of 100%. It is a fact that every penny he earned between 65 and 70 has now been used to pay Health Care Costs that should be paid by the NHS.

    Now that’s not fair on my dad even though he is dead and, hopefully, doesn’t know how he wasted his wages.

    Just wanted to point out that every case is different.
     
  19. Lucille

    Lucille Registered User

    Sep 10, 2005
    542
    #20 Lucille, Jan 20, 2007
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2007
    Well said, Nels!

    My mum (without assets) certainly wasn't a spendthirft. She had to struggle most of her life and juggle a couple of jobs to bring us up. Whilst I understand that people will be upset that their parents/loved ones are subsidising those that haven't got any money, it is not always as clear cut a case as people not saving any money ... if only mum had had money to save! As taxpayers, we are all, somewhere along the line, subsidising someone.
     

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