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Frightening finances!

Claris

New member
Dec 2, 2019
3
My mum kept fact she had Alzheimer’s for some time from me. Now probably mid stage she really is not coping with finances. Mum refused POA or should I say accepted then hid the paperwork needing finalised, insisting she would do when the time came. Luckily on one of our trips to the bank to get cash out as had lost her card for the 100th time!!! Mum agreed to make me a joint account holder of one of her accounts which has been a god send come lockdown. With no POA managing finances has been hard. Mum did do a good job sorting out direct debits and I have with her permission cancelled things like gym memberships which she has not used in years. My biggest problem is all the other accounts, stocks, shares and bonds she holds!! (Always made out she was skint) I think she should be paying tax on some earnings for starters and just don’t know where to start without POA. Most of mum’s financial affairs laterly was done on line and all this now can’t be retrieved. She has had mail from stock brokers saying they have been trying to email her but mail lines no longer exist. Share and bond statements mail yearly which in current climate are dropping. I have pieced together what I can and part of me says it will sort itself one way or another yet I also feel responsible to keep on track of all these assets my mum worked hard to gain. It is very possible mum will need 24/7 care in a care home at some point and how or who is going to work out her gross amount of savings less the tax she of late has probably not paid! Anyone out there been in similar situation?
 

Louise7

Registered User
Mar 25, 2016
2,467
Welcome to the forum @Claris Does your mum still have mental capacity to make decisions about her finances? If so then it's best to try to get the POA done asap as it will solve so many problems in future, including paying for her care. As she has previously said that she would do a POA when the time came could you try speaking to her about this again and suggest that now is the right time? Maybe say something like the price of shares/bonds is falling and you really want to help her to get a better return for her money - do you think that might work?

If you leave it too late and don't get a POA in place whilst your mum has mental capacity then you - or someone else - would need to apply for Deputyship in order to manage her finances, which is a longer process than getting a POA, is more expensive and would involve having to submit yearly accounts.
 

Banjomansmate

Registered User
Jan 13, 2019
2,209
Dorset
If you can retrieve the original LPA paperwork try using the fact that it will cost her a lot more money NOT to complete it (should the time come it might be necessary I.e. if she had an accident or was in hospital for some reason) because Deputyship is expensive and OPG would charge annually for their work in overseeing her finances.
The fact that it could cost more not to have one was the deciding factor in getting The Banjoman to agree to making LPAs!
 

Claris

New member
Dec 2, 2019
3
Th
Welcome to the forum @Claris Does your mum still have mental capacity to make decisions about her finances? If so then it's best to try to get the POA done asap as it will solve so many problems in future, including paying for her care. As she has previously said that she would do a POA when the time came could you try speaking to her about this again and suggest that now is the right time? Maybe say something like the price of shares/bonds is falling and you really want to help her to get a better return for her money - do you think that might work?

If you leave it too late and don't get a POA in place whilst your mum has mental capacity then you - or someone else - would need to apply for Deputyship in order to manage her finances, which is a longer process than getting a POA, is more expensive and would involve having to submit yearly accounts.
Thank you. Yes in some respects mum does still have capacity and in the moment may agree but come the next day or even next hour she can forget! I spoke to her lawyer who offered to visit pre-covid and propose POA which certainly would help me unravel the jigsaw of accounts. We had the paperwork all drawn up free by a lawyer from a careers support organisation before but one I can’t find it and two mum said then she didn’t have shares etc😭I will calmly broach the subject again tomorrow but don’t hold much hope. Mum wants me to visit bank tomorrow whom she believes will sort it all out. This was in response to a letter advising she get advice from a financial advisor before signing new terms with some other bonds mums got. It’s all so alien to me as I’ve never achieved savings like this.
Welcome to the forum @Claris Does your mum still have mental capacity to make decisions about her finances? If so then it's best to try to get the POA done asap as it will solve so many problems in future, including paying for her care. As she has previously said that she would do a POA when the time came could you try speaking to her about this again and suggest that now is the right time? Maybe say something like the price of shares/bonds is falling and you really want to help her to get a better return for her money - do you think that might work?

If you leave it too late and don't get a POA in place whilst your mum has mental capacity then you - or someone else - would need to apply for Deputyship in order to manage her finances, which is a longer process than getting a POA, is more expensive and would involve having to submit yearly accounts.
 

Hayley JS

Registered User
Feb 20, 2020
87
Hi @Claris, our PWD's do love to have us jumping through hoops bless 'em!

My stepfather had always used a financial advisor so when he passed away (this was prior to any of us being aware mum was in the earlier stages of dementia) I contacted the advisor to go through mums financial situation with him. Mum always panicked when it came to money issues so she was happy to pass things over to me to sort out. She was always present and was at that time able to sign the necessary documents/forms and this was enough for the FA to act.

I would recommend getting an FA involved, your mums solicitor might be able to recommend someone if you prefer not to use the banks advisor. If you are with her and she gives her consent for things to be discussed in your presence then at least you will be able to guide her and be aware of what she has and what needs doing.

I do now have POA although it was a nightmare getting it as mum agreed, forgot she'd agreed, refused to continue, forgot she'd refused and agreed again (repeat over several days) , balked at the solicitors door, got paranoid and agitated in the waiting room told the solicitor she didn't know what she was doing there :rolleyes: and so on. Fortunately the solicitor was amazing with mum and once mum had calmed down, spent a good 15 minutes alone with her going through things, and to my huge relief was happy mum had capacity and the LPA was duly processed.

Good luck getting POA sorted with your mum, it really will be worth all the struggle your going to have to go through to get it! Keep posting and let us know how you get on. If there is one thing I wish I had known about 7 years ago when dementia came sidling into my world, it's this forum - wishing you all the best.
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
13,676
South coast
You dont have to use a solicitor to sort out a POA @Claris , and it doesnt matter if she would forget about it later, so long as she understands and agrees at the time of signing, then it is legal.
So - this means that if you can find a friend or neighbour who has known her for 2 years and is prepared to witness her signature, then you can print off the form from the internet and choose your own time (when she is amenable) to do it in her own home.
 

Bunpoots

Volunteer Host
Apr 1, 2016
4,858
Nottinghamshire
I did as canary suggests @Claris

My dad had started the process of making me his attorney with his solicitor but when I phoned them I found he’d discussed it but got no further so I got a friend we’d both known for years to witness his signature on the forms I downloaded from the internet and then posted them to the OPG for registration.
 

Claris

New member
Dec 2, 2019
3
Thank you all. Hayley your mum sounds just like mine!!! Definitely a FA would be a help. My mum seems to have been a bit of a wizz kid with her savings way beyond my capabilities! Also Bunpoots and Canary this is encouraging about POA as I initially thought only a GP could sign that mum still has “some” capacity, having said that mum’s solicitor did say they could sort it all out for £3000 , so pricey! It’s actually just reassuring there are many out there in similar situations. This gives me strength to carry on. Off to take mum shopping today but she won’t remember and will say later to her carer she’s managing fine with shopping etc😂Onwards and upwards nevertheless.
 

Spamar

Registered User
Oct 5, 2013
7,495
Suffolk
If it helps, I did the same as Canary and Bunpoots in that I got neighbours to do all the signatures. There were no problems.
That was a get together distinguished by OH eating nearly the whole packet of chocolate digestives!
 

lollyc

Registered User
Sep 9, 2020
40
Canary is absolutely right, print the forms off and get mum to sign with a couple of friendly witnesses. The form itself is loads of pages, but your mum only has to sign a couple, so you can just present her with those sheets.Once granted, I would suggest getting certified copies, which can be sent to the financial institutions, rather than sending the original. A solicitor will do this for a fee, or you can do it yourself - you need to write a particular form of words on each page etc. Long job, but not difficut.
We had a similar situation as my Dad died at the point Mum's dementia started, and he was one for shares, bonds etc. - a complete mystery to the rest of us! We ultimately sold everything and opened a few savings accounts to get the best return for her (back in the days when you actually got interest on your money!) It wasn't actually as bad as we thought, once we knew what she had where.
 

Veritas

Registered User
Jun 15, 2020
69
Canary is absolutely right, print the forms off and get mum to sign with a couple of friendly witnesses. The form itself is loads of pages, but your mum only has to sign a couple, so you can just present her with those sheets.
@Claris - be careful. The forms do have to be completed and signed in a very specific order. However, attorneys can witness each other's signatures; the donor (ie your mum) can't. The person who is certifying that the donor has capacity and understands what they're doing can also witness the donor's signature on the document, where the attorneys can't.

It sounds to me like you need to do this pronto. Charging you £3000 for what I hope was both LPAs (you haven't mentioned health and welfare but that would be worth doing at the same time) is extortionate. We paid something like £500 plus the OPG registration fees for my husband's LPAs. I thought this was quite a lot, but my husband was already struggling a bit with this sort of thing, and I didn't want there to be any question about whether he was OK at the time to sign them off. I'd done my own LPAs a couple of years earlier "as a precaution" and then spent a long time encouraging him to do the same...
 

lollyc

Registered User
Sep 9, 2020
40
The OPG can't see what order the forms have been signed in, and I'm not suggesting that your mum signs them without the witnesses present. As canary says. she needs to understand, at the time, what she is signing (in the broadest sense, i.e that it will enable you to help her manage her affairs, not to qualify for a law degree), not today, or next week. OPG will not be sending someone round to check that she wasn't coerced into signing against her will.
 

jennifer1967

Registered User
Mar 15, 2020
956
Southampton
i did it on the phone by calling alz. soc. helplines and they make an appt with you for the phone. the donor[my husband] had to agree then everything else they did told who was needed so i prepared that sent the form we signed in specified order they listed phoned when we done it another appt just to check then sent off opg it would have cost £82 for each to register. because we have certain benefits the fee was waived and we havent paid anything for either poa.
 

Lynmax

Registered User
Nov 1, 2016
579
The OPG can't see what order the forms have been signed in, and I'm not suggesting that your mum signs them without the witnesses present. As canary says. she needs to understand, at the time, what she is signing (in the broadest sense, i.e that it will enable you to help her manage her affairs, not to qualify for a law degree), not today, or next week. OPG will not be sending someone round to check that she wasn't coerced into signing against her will.
The OPG do insist on the forms being dated in a specific order, it's clearly stated in the guidance pack. I think the donor has to be the last to sign. I have only just done my own LPAs and as I had to post the paperwork to my two children who were attorneys, I know I waited for their sheets to come back before signing myself.

The OPG though are very helpful, I made an error when sending in my forms as I did not include one of the numbered pages which explained to the attorneys what there responsibilities were, as there was nothing to fill in it did not occur to me that they had to be returned. But they wrote to me and gave me a fixed time period to send the missing sheets without needing to start again.
 

Lynmax

Registered User
Nov 1, 2016
579
Yes Nitram, I should have been more specific, forms signed on the same day are accepted but if they are not, in my case I had to post them to my children to complete, there is a specific order for the donor to use.