First physical assault?

[Gromit]

Sorry to hear

So sorry to hear about the traumatic time you had when your son was with you (apologies only just got to your post). I have no experience of this at all (Dad just been diagnosed and is in early stage of AD) however I just wanted to let you know I am thinking of you.

Having read the great advice you have received from others I was just wondering if this is something to be expected from the disease - at what stage does this type of behaviour show itself? As you can imagine I'm wondering what the future might hold.

All the best to you and I hope you have a better visit next time.

Love and Hugs
G
x

 

[Lila13]

Yes, I wondered that too, my mother looked such a feeble old lady, people who hadn't been on the receiving end couldn't believe she could be seriously violent. It came partly from surprise (the sudden transformation not giving me time to prepare or evade) and of course the fact that we can't defend ourselves, or would get blamed by others if we did.

In my mother's case I generally knew what triggered the violence (e.g. when I wouldn't let her go out alone after dark, and as far as she was concerned she had a perfect right to do so).

When I spent 2 nights locked in a cold bathroom it was for my own safety. Relations told me to call emergency services, but I thought either she'll calm down and be charming with doctors etc. (and they'd blame me for wasting their time), or they might put her somewhere really ghastly.

Their power comes from "disinhibition" and the inability to take responsibility for the consequences of their own actions, may even know that they won't be blamed, whatever happens, but the carer might be blamed.

I'm not sure if I could identify a "first" physical assault as she had had manic attacks before.

..................................................................................................................................


"Where does this power come from???"

 

[dmc]

Was saddened to read of your dilemma Donna......Just wanted to say i`m thinking of you, ( it used to upset me when my dad kept kicking my little grand-daughter who used to live with me......she was only 3 at the time and i had to watch him like a hawk, i could never leave tham in the same room together....) All i can say, is that hopefully with time, this phase will pass, like it did with my dad. He still gets a wild look in his eyes, but no longer lashes out. Good luck at the doctors Donna, keep us posted. In the meantime....... sending you

{{{{{{{{{{{{HUGE HUGS }}}}}}}}}}

Love Jan. Xxx

dear jan

while i appreciate your huge hugs i think perhaps they were meant for karen but will send them to her with my love

donna xx

 

[Canadian Joanne]

It doesn't happen to everyone

Gromit, it's important to remember that violence & aggression does not necessarily affect everyone. An aggressive phase may be very short-lived or even caused by a physical problem which the patient cannot articulate. Since an AD patient often cannot tell us what is wrong, he or she will lash out, it being the only way they can get communicate.

I know people who are in the later stages who have been their own sweet selves the entire time.

 

[noelphobic]

I have seen violence and aggression in my mum on a few isolated occasions. When she first moved into her nursing home she was very nasty for a while, although not physically violent. Recently she has had an increasing number of fits and is sometimes very aggressive after these, including hitting out in anger. One of the care assistants also told me that she had scratched her arms.

I don't know any statistics but would guess that violence is not terribly common, thankfully. Also, where it does occur it does not mean it is a permanent feature of that person's illness. It may often be just a passing phase, thankfully!

Brenda

 

[mel]

Hi Karen
Hope you feel a bit better today......I remember the first time my mum landed me one.....I was shocked, hurt,and extremely upset....it's tough when your kids witness it too ....my youngest was distraught(and couldn't understand why I didn't fight back instead of standing there!!! )
I hope it's a one off for you.....just remember you've coped with it this time and god forbid ,if there is another episode , this will have prepared you a bit for the next time......

I feel mum was feeling trapped,frustrated and scared when she lashed out.......she'd never been a violent woman in her life before

Love Wendy xx

 

[Tender Face]

Thanks everyone again ... in a bit of a state of shock last night - and still today .... playing my best avoidance strategies at the minute .......

Obviously only time will tell if this was a 'one-off', a new phase or whatever .... at least now I'm prepared to expect yet more unexpected........

Where I feel my priority lies is in addressing the damage done once again to my son as a result of 'Grandma's demise' - (bullying last time, witnessing violence this time) ...... and preventing as much further hurt to him as possible .... I know I can defend myself and rationalise her actions (albeit later) ...... but how children are expected to understand what they witness as a result of this disease???????

Thanks again all - your support has meant so much,

Love, Karen, x

 

[noelphobic]

Where I feel my priority lies is in addressing the damage done once again to my son as a result of 'Grandma's demise' - (bullying last time, witnessing violence this time) ...... and preventing as much further hurt to him as possible .... I know I can defend myself and rationalise her actions (albeit later) ...... but how children are expected to understand what they witness as a result of this disease???????
Love, Karen, x

That's a tough one Karen. My son is 18 now and used to be the apple of his nana's eye. Sadly, these days she doesn't even acknowledge his existence. My mum looked after him when I was at work when he was little, up until he was about 8 when it was obvious that she wasn't up to it. It broke her heart and made me feel terribly guilty to stop her looking after him and send him to a childminder, but it had to be done for his safety. She was getting to the point where she couldn't look after herself, let alone be responsible for a child. David went to a childminder for a few years until he was too old. He then started walking to my parents house after school and staying there until I picked him up after work. That all stopped the day I got there to find him walking barefoot up and down their front path like someone demented - and I do realise the significance of the word I am using! It later transpired that his odd behaviour was due to the fact that he had fallen in school and been concussed. When I took him to a local walk in health centre they were so concerned that they called an emergency ambulance who took us to the local hospital with blue light on and siren blaring! Neither of my parents had noticed how bizarrely he was behaving and it then became obvious that he was looking after them much more than they were looking after him!

For similar reasons I stopped him from staying there overnight around the same time. I realised that if there was an emergency in the night eg a fire then he would have the burden of trying to get two severely incapacitated people out of their house. I knew that this was too much to put on a 14 year old's shoulders.

Sorry, I seem to have gone entirely off the point and this probably also sounds extremely harsh. What I am trying to say is that, although I cared deeply about my parents, I had to put my son first.

However, I don't think he is any way emotionally scarred by witnessing my mum's illness - if anything then I think it has made him a more compassionate and understanding person.

Sorry, waffle over!

Brenda

 

[jenniferpa]

Dear Karen,

I do think we sometimes underestimate children's resilence when it comes to dealing with the unexpected (and I think having his grandmother attempt to strangle his mother comes under that category).

It's not as if he's unaware that she is ill, and he is not so very young now. Talk to him about, yes, but try not to obsess over it. I think the only way to go with this is matter-of-fact: she's ill, he knows she's ill, this is yet another symptom of that illness. Think of it this way: there are even more unexpected things she could do that might be even more traumatic for a child long-term (disrobing comes to mind).

Jennifer

 

[noelphobic]

Think of it this way: there are even more unexpected things she could do that might be even more traumatic for a child long-term (disrobing comes to mind).
Jennifer

And, sadly, I think that happens. People with dementia can often be inappropriately dressed, or even half-dressed, without realising how embarrassing this can be to others. I suppose it is a blessing, for them, that they have lost their own sense of embarrassment!

Brenda

 

[Canadian Joanne]

Kids are more resilient than we realize

Karen,
I agree with Jenn, kids are a lot more resilient than we give them credit for. This would be a good opportunity for you to discuss coping mechanisms for when Gran goes ballistic again. He may well have some excellent suggestions. He may also to pick up on her mood changes faster.

Disrobing, yes he might find that a lot more traumatic! ! On the other hand, it might put him off having sex too young, which could only be a good thing.]

I suspect, my little wabbit, that he's handling this better than you are.

Tell me I'm wrong.

Joanne

 

[jenniferpa]

And, sadly, I think that happens. People with dementia can often be inappropriately dressed, or even half-dressed, without realising how embarrassing this can be to others. I suppose it is a blessing, for them, that they have lost their own sense of embarrassmen!

Brenda

Yes, well, I'm speaking from personal experience here

Jennifer

 

[noelphobic]

Yes, well, I'm speaking from personal experience here

Jennifer

I have to confess that I am also. To make matters worse, when my parents both lived at home they had an intercom. Basically my dad would have let anyone in who rang the bell, without checking first whether everyone was 'decent' (or whether the caller was a mad axe carrier )

Strangely enough the milkman and window cleaner started calling to collect their money less regularly

I also got into a strange habit around this time - if I heard my son coming upstairs whilst I was getting dressed I would yell out 'I'm not decent!' I live in a little terraced house with thin walls - I would love to know what my neighbour made of that

Brenda

 

[jenniferpa]

I suspect that few of us haven't been in an embarassing situation (or a dozen) with our loved ones and their lack of inhibitions. I don't think I'm a prude, and I have no problem with nakedness when it comes to bathing them, but there are definitely occasions where I have been "surprised" shall we say by an unexpectedly naked 89 year old.

Jennifer

 

[Canadian Joanne]

Disinhibition

When my mother was mobile, she thought nothing of starting to disrobe while my husband was in the room. My husband, of course, would dash out. I told him he should have stayed and to think of it as a preview of what was to come (with me). For some reason, he didn't find this amusing.

My mother also ran out of the shower several times when she was in her "I don't want to bathe" mode, clad in nothing more than a few suds and a vicious expression. I think the little old men in the unit might have appreciated it. I sure hope so.

It really is amazing how all our little social ways & modesties go right out the window sometimes. Does anyone know someone who was wild & bohemian when they were well & then got AD? How does that person change?

Joanne

 

[jenniferpa]

clad in nothing more than a few suds and a vicious expression.

Love it, just love it Joanne

 

[noelphobic]

My mother also ran out of the shower several times when she was in her "I don't want to bathe" mode, clad in nothing more than a few suds and a vicious expression. I think the little old men in the unit might have appreciated it. I sure hope so.
Joanne

There seems to be some kind of law that says that older ladies, especially those with dementia, have to wear pop socks. I am sure little old men (or even big old men) who have a fetish about pop socks are mighty appreciative Especially when, if my mum is anything to go by, she loves to inch her skirt up higher and higher in a tantalising manner

Never seen the attraction of pop socks personally - unless you're hellbent on cutting off your circulation. It also seems to be the law that pop socks have to be impossibly tight, no matter how skinny your legs are, and that they will therefore leave viciously deep welts in your legs! Never see men wearing pop socks - must be Eve's REAL punishment for giving Adam that apple

Brenda

 

[sue38]

There seems to be some kind of law that says that older ladies, especially those with dementia, have to wear pop socks. I am sure little old men (or even big old men) who have a fetish about pop socks are mighty appreciative Especially when, if my mum is anything to go by, she loves to inch her skirt up higher and higher in a tantalising manner

Never seen the attraction of pop socks personally - unless you're hellbent on cutting off your circulation. It also seems to be the law that pop socks have to be impossibly tight, no matter how skinny your legs are, and that they will therefore leave viciously deep welts in your legs! Never see men wearing pop socks - must be Eve's REAL punishment for giving Adam that apple

Brenda

Priceless! I was physically assaulted by my Dad in front of my fellow (and his former) professional contemporaries at a Law Society 'do' and thought I had hit rock bottom...but if I EVER wear pop socks or God forbid start listening to Radio 2 you have my permission to shoot me

 

[noelphobic]

Priceless! I was physically assaulted by my Dad in front of my fellow (and his former) professional contemporaries at a Law Society 'do' and thought I had hit rock bottom...but if I EVER wear pop socks or God forbid start listening to Radio 2 you have my permission to shoot me

Didn't realise Radio 2 was the big no no! Have to confess that while all about me are succumbing to the delights of Radio 4 I have always resisted it! My reasons being that Radio 4 is for those who are middle class and middle aged and I am neither!!!

Well, OK, reluctantly confessing to being middle aged but quick check of my payslip and knowledge that I am lowest council tax band leads me to stand by my declaration of not being middle aged.

Now waiting for the barrage of protests from Radio 4 listeners and know deep down that I will love Radio 4 when it finally seduces me - Archers and all

Brenda

 

[Skye]

Priceless! I was physically assaulted by my Dad in front of my fellow (and his former) professional contemporaries at a Law Society 'do' and thought I had hit rock bottom...but if I EVER wear pop socks or God forbid start listening to Radio 2 you have my permission to shoot me

I listen to Radio 2, it cheers me up. And I have a drawer full of pop socks! (But I do only wear them under trousers -- is that OK, Sue?)