finance question

[fizzie]

We were self funding but I have a friend who has asked me a question
Husband will need carers four times a day as he has dementia and is about to have a leg amputated! Then she wants him to come home but is worried about the finances.

He has a decent private pension and a state pension and she has a state pension. Their joint account has over 23K in it (I''m not sure how much but say it is 30K). When the LA is doing a financial assessment is half of this considered to be hers and therefore not touched? Does that mean that he will be under the 23K and therefore will be funding by LA?

Thanks

 

[Bod]

Private pension might have an effect, he might be "asked" to contribute towards the cost.

Bod

 

[marionq]

The joint account is considered to be equally shared. It is possible, though it didn't happen with me that the assessor could ask how the joint account is funded eg if all the money going in comes from the husband.

This is why I would always advise that each spouse has their own account instead of or as well as a joint account. From my own account I pay things that are solely mine but from the joint account I pay household bills we share. So if asked I could show what funds are my husbands and which are mine.

It also means that the wife is already in charge of her finances by the time husband goes into care.

 

[fizzie]

The joint account is considered to be equally shared. It is possible, though it didn't happen with me that the assessor could ask how the joint account is funded eg if all the money going in comes from the husband.

This is why I would always advise that each spouse has their own account instead of or as well as a joint account. From my own account I pay things that are solely mine but from the joint account I pay household bills we share. So if asked I could show what funds are my husbands and which are mine.

It also means that the wife is already in charge of her finances by the time husband goes into care.

Thank you so much this is really useful. Do you think this lady could split that money off now or would that raise questions - he has to have the op yet so I imagine they are a few weeks away from having the set up started. I'm not sure she will manage him at home either to be honest but that's another tale. I'm going to see her this weekend

 

[Pete R]

When the LA is doing a financial assessment is half of this considered to be hers and therefore not touched? Does that mean that he will be under the 23K and therefore will be funding by LA?

"Chapter 8 of the statutory guidance requires local authorities to charge people individually. At paragraph 8.8 it states that a local authority:
has no power to assess couples or civil partners according to their joint resources. Each person must therefore be treated individually".

The rules for an FA are much the same as for someone going into a CH for joint accounts and they are normally split unless there is evidence more belongs to one or the other. It is often recommended to split the accounts appropriately before the FA.

As Bod says whether he will be LA funded will depend on income from pensions/benefits but there are allowances for maintaining the home, having a minimum income and the LA do have a discretion to be more generous.

http://www.ageuk.org.uk/Documents/E...or_care_and_support_at_home_fcs.pdf?dtrk=true

 

[Pete R]

I'm not sure she will manage him at home either to be honest but that's another tale.

Then maybe whilst he is in hospital and being assessed by SS your friend should try and push for a period of reablement which is free for up to 6 weeks. It can be in a CH or some LA have purpose built centres. Your friend could then see if she is able to do the things she will have to when carers are not in the home, fail to turn up etc. It is also a good way of seeing how the husband adjusts to a CH setting.

 

[fizzie]

"Chapter 8 of the statutory guidance requires local authorities to charge people individually. At paragraph 8.8 it states that a local authority:
has no power to assess couples or civil partners according to their joint resources. Each person must therefore be treated individually".

The rules for an FA are much the same as for someone going into a CH for joint accounts and they are normally split unless there is evidence more belongs to one or the other. It is often recommended to split the accounts appropriately before the FA.

As Bod says whether he will be LA funded will depend on income from pensions/benefits but there are allowances for maintaining the home, having a minimum income and the LA do have a discretion to be more generous.

http://www.ageuk.org.uk/Documents/E...or_care_and_support_at_home_fcs.pdf?dtrk=true

Great thank you very much Pete. This is very useful indeed

 

[marionq]

Thank you so much this is really useful. Do you think this lady could split that money off now or would that raise questions - he has to have the op yet so I imagine they are a few weeks away from having the set up started. I'm not sure she will manage him at home either to be honest but that's another tale. I'm going to see her this weekend

I would say she should do it now and if asked she can give a sound reason why she is getting their finances in order before he goes into care.

 

[arielsmelody]

I thought that possibly the private pension should be split between them so that he would only be assessed on half of it? Has attendance allowance been claimed for the husband?

In your friend's situation I would be really worried about falls - if her husband isn't able to adjust to only having one good leg, it would be so easy for him to forget and fall, and would she be able to get him off the floor if that happened? I imagine he'll need a downstairs wetroom and bedroom, and possibly a hospital bed, hoist and wheelchair if he doesn't adjust well.

 

[Spamar]

He gets money in his name and state pension plus half private pension. She gets the other half of private pension, anything in her own name. If there is any investment trusts, they are ignored by LA.

 

[jenniferpa]

Have you seen this factsheet? https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=2710

Do bear in mind that the rules are rather different for care provided at home and care provided in a care home. It is likely that both income and savings will be assessed, but different LA's do it differently, so it's difficult to be absolute on this.

The Care Act (2014) states that any charges must be 'reasonable'. It says that people receiving care should not be expected to live on an income lower than a 'basic level'. This basic level is calculated as the income received on Income support or the guarantee credit element of Pension credit, plus an extra 25 per cent. Anybody whose income does not exceed the basic level should not be charged for homecare.

Depending on the financial assessment, a local authority may ask a person to contribute a certain amount towards the cost of care, with the local authority paying the rest. Each local authority has its own guidance, so this can vary depending on where the person lives. A copy of the local authority's charging policy should be available online or can be requested. It may contain a savings and income threshold. Anyone with savings or income above this threshold is expected to pay for their own care. If their savings or income is below the threshold, the local authority should fund their care.

 

[fizzie]

I thought that possibly the private pension should be split between them so that he would only be assessed on half of it? Has attendance allowance been claimed for the husband?

In your friend's situation I would be really worried about falls - if her husband isn't able to adjust to only having one good leg, it would be so easy for him to forget and fall, and would she be able to get him off the floor if that happened? I imagine he'll need a downstairs wetroom and bedroom, and possibly a hospital bed, hoist and wheelchair if he doesn't adjust well.

Yes he has attendance allowance. He won't fall as he won't be mobile. He will need to be hoisted and has been in a lot of pain. He has gangrene and so the future is not rosy and in her position I would question whether having the op would be the right thing to do but that is their decision.
Life is going to be really tough - they live in a bungalow and she bought a hospital bed and a hoist!!! and he is and will be wheelchair bound. She is nearly 80.

Thanks for the info, fortunately I have found out loads about the services in her area and so can help her get as much support as possible but she is adamant she wants him home and she will not rest until that happens so it is just a question of being as supportive as possible and waiting.................................................

 

[fizzie]

Have you seen this factsheet? https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=2710

Do bear in mind that the rules are rather different for care provided at home and care provided in a care home. It is likely that both income and savings will be assessed, but different LA's do it differently, so it's difficult to be absolute on this.

Thank you Jennifer, looking at the fact sheet it seems it would still be sensible to separate the finances at this stage and then wait to see what happens.
Fact sheet is very useful thank you