feeling helpless

RS Tracy

Registered User
Jun 12, 2017
28
0
Hello

Please please can anyone help. I know i may of asked these sort of questions before but my head is all over the place and to be honest I cant remember what ive asked and what I haven't. My mum is in a care home, she went permanent on the 6th Feb, and at the moment she is paying a contribution towards the care fee's of £200 per week but at the beginning of May when the 12 week property disregard ends, she will be classed as self funding, as she owns her own home. Her house is currently on the market and it looks like it wont be long before it sells, which I know is a good thing, but it just really really upsets me to think that all the funds from the sale of the home, will go to pay the care home fee's of £750 per wk and continue to do so until she is down to £23, 250.

I was hoping to set up a care plan for her, which is a bit like a life assurance policy, the idea with that is that the plan is bought with some of the funds from the sale of the house, and what ever is left is passed on to me as inheritance as my mum & dad would have wanted, but unfortunately when they've worked the figures out, it would cost more for the plan than what the house is up for sale for, so thats out of the question. I just cant get over the fact that literally everything that my mum & dad have worked for, is going to get eaten up by the care home fees. So what I wanted to know was, is there anything at all that I can do to try and protect some of the funds in my mums house. Please dont get me wrong, im not trying to get out of paying care home fee's, I understand they have to be paid, its just that it seems so wrong that literally all the funds from the house will just dwindle away to there's hardly anything left.

Any advice or help is greatly appreciated, I just feel totally lost and upset by it all
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
25,018
0
South coast
Tracey - no, there isnt anything that you can do. If you try and squirrel money away by transferring some of it to another person, or setting up a trust fund, or anything, then it will be considered Deprivationof Assets.

The money is your mums, to be used for her care. It is not inheritance until she dies.
 

Lawson58

Registered User
Aug 1, 2014
4,333
0
Victoria, Australia
I know that there are many people who feel that they want to leave an inheritance for their children and that many people expect to have a legacy when their parents pass on. Sadly I think the world has changed a lot and the reality is that people are generally living much longer and will require care that has to be paid for.

The sad truth is that if your mum has the money to provide for her care then that's what it is there for. If she doesn't pay it for it then it comes down to the taxpayer to pay for it. When you think about the increasing number of people who will require governments to provide care, it seems only right that if people have the funds to access care for themselves then that's the right thing to do.

This is probably not what you want to hear but it's sort of how the world out there has to work.
 

Elle3

Registered User
Jun 30, 2016
705
0
I’m afraid what Canary and Lawson58 says is correct. Your parents money and assets are theirs until they pass away and must be used to fund whatever care is required. Sad I know and not probably what your mum would want.

The amount you mentioned £23,250 is the upper limit, this is when the financial assessment kicks in, then her funds will be used on a reducing scale until they are down to the lower limit I think of about £14,250, I can’t remember exactly. This figure is basically your inheritance.

The only thing you can spend your mums money on apart from every day bills and essentials and which wouldn’t be seen as deprivation of assets is a funeral plan. You can buy this now so at least it doesn’t come out of the remaining £14,250 when she passes. This is what was explained to me by a lady on the council financial assessment team.
 

padmag

Registered User
May 8, 2012
259
0
nottingham
Hello

Please please can anyone help. I know i may of asked these sort of questions before but my head is all over the place and to be honest I cant remember what ive asked and what I haven't. My mum is in a care home, she went permanent on the 6th Feb, and at the moment she is paying a contribution towards the care fee's of £200 per week but at the beginning of May when the 12 week property disregard ends, she will be classed as self funding, as she owns her own home. Her house is currently on the market and it looks like it wont be long before it sells, which I know is a good thing, but it just really really upsets me to think that all the funds from the sale of the home, will go to pay the care home fee's of £750 per wk and continue to do so until she is down to £23, 250.

I was hoping to set up a care plan for her, which is a bit like a life assurance policy, the idea with that is that the plan is bought with some of the funds from the sale of the house, and what ever is left is passed on to me as inheritance as my mum & dad would have wanted, but unfortunately when they've worked the figures out, it would cost more for the plan than what the house is up for sale for, so thats out of the question. I just cant get over the fact that literally everything that my mum & dad have worked for, is going to get eaten up by the care home fees. So what I wanted to know was, is there anything at all that I can do to try and protect some of the funds in my mums house. Please dont get me wrong, im not trying to get out of paying care home fee's, I understand they have to be paid, its just that it seems so wrong that literally all the funds from the house will just dwindle away to there's hardly anything left.

Any advice or help is greatly appreciated, I just feel totally lost and upset by it all
Hello RS Tracey. Sorry to hear of your dilemma. I have a different view in that yes care home fees have to be paid somehow, but the extent of nearly everything being handed over is not fair. I am in the same situation with my Mum - I have a thread in the legal and financial forum of what is happening to my Mum and her payment of care home fees. As Mum is unable to function on any level I have gone down the route of CHC (continuous health care) which is virtually impossible to get, and if obtained will fund Mum's care. First a checklist is done to ascertain whether an assessment is required, then the assessement, which for Mum was ineligible - no surprise there as this is the usual result. I contacted a well known solicitor in the Cardiff area who is now taking on the case no win no fee. Incidentally Mum was awarded funded nursing care which is about £158 per week, but this is a tiny amount compared to the weekly costs of care, and will hardly make a difference. My advice is to read as much as possible about CHC, and have the checklist done anyway to see if it's a possibility going forward. Good Luck
 

Sirena

Registered User
Feb 27, 2018
2,324
0
No there is nothing you can do to protect the money. Until your mother dies, it remains her money and as such needs to be available for her care. My mother didn't own a property but she had a large inheritance from her parents, and for the past 3 years it has been used to provide good quality care for her, first at home and now in a care home, far better than social services would have provided. She has funds for a few more years of fees and I am not expecting to see any of it. Would be nice if I did, but it's her money and it only becomes 'mine' after she dies.
 

Lawson58

Registered User
Aug 1, 2014
4,333
0
Victoria, Australia
No there is nothing you can do to protect the money. Until your mother dies, it remains her money and as such needs to be available for her care. My mother didn't own a property but she had a large inheritance from her parents, and for the past 3 years it has been used to provide good quality care for her, first at home and now in a care home, far better than social services would have provided. She has funds for a few more years of fees and I am not expecting to see any of it. Would be nice if I did, but it's her money and it only becomes 'mine' after she dies.
That's so nice to hear, that your mum's welfare is the first consideration and that her inheritance has been able to provide quality care for her. We have some money put aside and own our home but I don't think there will be much left by the time we're gone. If it doesn't get spent on care, it'll be spent on me kicking up my heels if I manage a couple of years on my own at some stage in the future.
 

Susan11

Registered User
Nov 18, 2018
5,064
0
Hello

Please please can anyone help. I know i may of asked these sort of questions before but my head is all over the place and to be honest I cant remember what ive asked and what I haven't. My mum is in a care home, she went permanent on the 6th Feb, and at the moment she is paying a contribution towards the care fee's of £200 per week but at the beginning of May when the 12 week property disregard ends, she will be classed as self funding, as she owns her own home. Her house is currently on the market and it looks like it wont be long before it sells, which I know is a good thing, but it just really really upsets me to think that all the funds from the sale of the home, will go to pay the care home fee's of £750 per wk and continue to do so until she is down to £23, 250.

I was hoping to set up a care plan for her, which is a bit like a life assurance policy, the idea with that is that the plan is bought with some of the funds from the sale of the house, and what ever is left is passed on to me as inheritance as my mum & dad would have wanted, but unfortunately when they've worked the figures out, it would cost more for the plan than what the house is up for sale for, so thats out of the question. I just cant get over the fact that literally everything that my mum & dad have worked for, is going to get eaten up by the care home fees. So what I wanted to know was, is there anything at all that I can do to try and protect some of the funds in my mums house. Please dont get me wrong, im not trying to get out of paying care home fee's, I understand they have to be paid, its just that it seems so wrong that literally all the funds from the house will just dwindle away to there's hardly anything left.

Any advice or help is greatly appreciated, I just feel totally lost and upset by it all
Just a thought ...have you claimed attendance allowance for your Mum . It would give you a bit towards CH fees
 

Elle3

Registered User
Jun 30, 2016
705
0
Hello RS Tracey. Sorry to hear of your dilemma. I have a different view in that yes care home fees have to be paid somehow, but the extent of nearly everything being handed over is not fair. I am in the same situation with my Mum - I have a thread in the legal and financial forum of what is happening to my Mum and her payment of care home fees. As Mum is unable to function on any level I have gone down the route of CHC (continuous health care) which is virtually impossible to get, and if obtained will fund Mum's care. First a checklist is done to ascertain whether an assessment is required, then the assessement, which for Mum was ineligible - no surprise there as this is the usual result. I contacted a well known solicitor in the Cardiff area who is now taking on the case no win no fee. Incidentally Mum was awarded funded nursing care which is about £158 per week, but this is a tiny amount compared to the weekly costs of care, and will hardly make a difference. My advice is to read as much as possible about CHC, and have the checklist done anyway to see if it's a possibility going forward. Good Luck

Hi Padmag, I am sorry they did not deem your mum as eligible for CHC funding. The only bit of advice I can give you is that gathering mounds of evidence for each area is definitely the key and to have the care home on your side. If you can give them so much evidence that they cannot wriggle out and downgrade them on each of the areas you may get it. My dad was awarded it and to be honest he seems to be nowhere near as bad as others I have read about that didn't get it. But between the SW, the Care Home staff and myself we had loads of evidence and quite literally bombarded the assessor with it, so much so we didn't have to argue about any of the conclusions. My dad was awarded it based on a score of Severe for Cognition, Severe for Behaviour and High for Communication, the rest he just scored, moderate, low of no needs, so it's not like he had any other problems other than the Dementia. I suppose another point to make is that my dad's behaviour was unpredictable, most of the time he was calm and pleasant, but without warning could become aggressive and abusive to staff and other residents. I wish you luck with your appeal. Elle x
 

padmag

Registered User
May 8, 2012
259
0
nottingham
Hi Padmag, I am sorry they did not deem your mum as eligible for CHC funding. The only bit of advice I can give you is that gathering mounds of evidence for each area is definitely the key and to have the care home on your side. If you can give them so much evidence that they cannot wriggle out and downgrade them on each of the areas you may get it. My dad was awarded it and to be honest he seems to be nowhere near as bad as others I have read about that didn't get it. But between the SW, the Care Home staff and myself we had loads of evidence and quite literally bombarded the assessor with it, so much so we didn't have to argue about any of the conclusions. My dad was awarded it based on a score of Severe for Cognition, Severe for Behaviour and High for Communication, the rest he just scored, moderate, low of no needs, so it's not like he had any other problems other than the Dementia. I suppose another point to make is that my dad's behaviour was unpredictable, most of the time he was calm and pleasant, but without warning could become aggressive and abusive to staff and other residents. I wish you luck with your appeal. Elle x
Hello Elle3 It seems a lot of weighting is attached to behaviour and Mum was a moderate score in that area. She scored 1xsevere and mostly highs on the remainder. The social worker did not attend the DST and the care home manager was as much use as a chocolate teapot!. She initially told us not to bother with the assessment, so you can see we had very little support. I did lots of groundwork and had a lot of evidence but to no avail. As I am a full timer carer for my partner who is in his 7/8th dementia year and I do not have the stamina to appeal so that is why I have handed it over to solicitors who are experts in this field. I am glad you managed to get it for your Dad, goes to show it is possible especially with good support from the professionals.
 

Elle3

Registered User
Jun 30, 2016
705
0
Hello Elle3 It seems a lot of weighting is attached to behaviour and Mum was a moderate score in that area. She scored 1xsevere and mostly highs on the remainder. The social worker did not attend the DST and the care home manager was as much use as a chocolate teapot!. She initially told us not to bother with the assessment, so you can see we had very little support. I did lots of groundwork and had a lot of evidence but to no avail. As I am a full timer carer for my partner who is in his 7/8th dementia year and I do not have the stamina to appeal so that is why I have handed it over to solicitors who are experts in this field. I am glad you managed to get it for your Dad, goes to show it is possible especially with good support from the professionals.

Our SW couldn’t attend the actual assessment meeting either, but she had arranged to meet the team prior to the assessment, so she could give them her evidence and opinion so you should accept no excuses from them. Also, it was the unit nurse that attended the assessment with me as she was the most qualified to provide evidence, like you say the care home manager is no use, you really want the people who care for the PWD on a daily basis. I think the evidence has to be supported by the Care home staff, otherwise the assessors may think you are over exaggerating. My notes, just included dates and bits of factual info which I could use to prompt the nurse, then she would find the actual incident on the file to show them. I felt as though the assessors listened to me but they wanted to see the proof to back it up.

It really saddens me how so often people get turned down for funding, hence why I try to comment to show it is possible to get, even with just Dementia symptoms. I want to encourage them to go for it and not give up if turned down. I really hope your Solicitor has success. X
 

RS Tracy

Registered User
Jun 12, 2017
28
0
Hello RS Tracey. Sorry to hear of your dilemma. I have a different view in that yes care home fees have to be paid somehow, but the extent of nearly everything being handed over is not fair. I am in the same situation with my Mum - I have a thread in the legal and financial forum of what is happening to my Mum and her payment of care home fees. As Mum is unable to function on any level I have gone down the route of CHC (continuous health care) which is virtually impossible to get, and if obtained will fund Mum's care. First a checklist is done to ascertain whether an assessment is required, then the assessement, which for Mum was ineligible - no surprise there as this is the usual result. I contacted a well known solicitor in the Cardiff area who is now taking on the case no win no fee. Incidentally Mum was awarded funded nursing care which is about £158 per week, but this is a tiny amount compared to the weekly costs of care, and will hardly make a difference. My advice is to read as much as possible about CHC, and have the checklist done anyway to see if it's a possibility going forward. Good Luck
I have thought about CHC as my mums needs have deteriorated, from what I know she has to be feed now otherwise she wont eat, she has to be washed, dressed etc, and she has been aggressive recently, telling people she kill them and refusing to take her medication
 

RS Tracy

Registered User
Jun 12, 2017
28
0
Just a thought ...have you claimed attendance allowance for your Mum . It would give you a bit towards CH fees
My mum was getting AA before she went into hospital and then the care home, but that has now stopped, although I have been told it will start again once she goes self funding
 

Staff online

Forum statistics

Threads
138,152
Messages
1,993,507
Members
89,813
Latest member
Sharonmatthews1976