Feeling depressed and confused about visiting restrictions.

anxious annie

Registered User
Jan 2, 2019
590
There seem to be 3 visiting threads so I'm posting on all so nobody misses a post!
Boris was on Look East Friday evening saying "if there's a way ( for safe visiting) I'll look into it. I hope this is not an empty promise as he did ignore the presenter when she suggested testing and ppe for family
 

anxious annie

Registered User
Jan 2, 2019
590
BBC breakfast 8am tomorrow morning, interviews from Rights for Residents about lack of care home visits, posted by @Baker17 on one of the other care visits thread and
@Louise7 also posted a link to an article, think it was the independent in Scotland about a change to restrictions if home is 28 days covid clear , on one of the threads , either care home lockdown or crazy care home .....
 

Louise7

Registered User
Mar 25, 2016
2,578
BBC breakfast 8am tomorrow morning, interviews from Rights for Residents about lack of care home visits, posted by @Baker17 on one of the other care visits thread
I watched the article and it was interesting to hear the lady representing care homes (can't remember which association) stating that they want to allow visits but the problems are testing - with often long delays in receiving the results - plus the fact that insurance companies won't indemnify them if visitors catch covid. There are at least two care home chains that are allowing family members in to visit (providing they have tested negative) and my mum's home were allowing indoor visits for around 3 months before closing recently due to a covid outbreak. I wasn't asked to sign anything to indemnify myself in the event that I caught covid in the home but in any case, how on earth would you be able to prove that you caught it there anyway, bearing in mind the numbers of asymptomatic covid positive people? If the issue of insurance indemnity isn't a problem for some care homes perhaps the care home industry should be discussing their insurance indemnity concerns and properly risk assessing the situation?
 

Chaplin

Registered User
May 24, 2015
97
Bristol
I watched the article and it was interesting to hear the lady representing care homes (can't remember which association) stating that they want to allow visits but the problems are testing - with often long delays in receiving the results - plus the fact that insurance companies won't indemnify them if visitors catch covid. There are at least two care home chains that are allowing family members in to visit (providing they have tested negative) and my mum's home were allowing indoor visits for around 3 months before closing recently due to a covid outbreak. I wasn't asked to sign anything to indemnify myself in the event that I caught covid in the home but in any case, how on earth would you be able to prove that you caught it there anyway, bearing in mind the numbers of asymptomatic covid positive people? If the issue of insurance indemnity isn't a problem for some care homes perhaps the care home industry should be discussing their insurance indemnity concerns and properly risk assessing the situation?
Sadly as I expected it all comes down to money while our loved ones fade away behind closed doors! Just as our most vulnerable people were overlooked at the beginning of this crisis, it would appear no lessons have been learned and families will continue to be deprived of seeing their loved ones for goodness knows how much longer! It’s good the BBC covered this but if it had been given half the airtime that the idiot Trump received, more people may have seen it and got involved in the debate to bring about some urgent change.
 

Louise7

Registered User
Mar 25, 2016
2,578

Baker17

Registered User
Mar 9, 2016
775
I watched the article and it was interesting to hear the lady representing care homes (can't remember which association) stating that they want to allow visits but the problems are testing - with often long delays in receiving the results - plus the fact that insurance companies won't indemnify them if visitors catch covid. There are at least two care home chains that are allowing family members in to visit (providing they have tested negative) and my mum's home were allowing indoor visits for around 3 months before closing recently due to a covid outbreak. I wasn't asked to sign anything to indemnify myself in the event that I caught covid in the home but in any case, how on earth would you be able to prove that you caught it there anyway, bearing in mind the numbers of asymptomatic covid positive people? If the issue of insurance indemnity isn't a problem for some care homes perhaps the care home industry should be discussing their insurance indemnity concerns and properly risk assessing the situation?
@Louise7 i wasn’t impressed by her comments and thought she was using the insurance thing as a bit of a smoke screen.
 

Baker17

Registered User
Mar 9, 2016
775
Sadly as I expected it all comes down to money while our loved ones fade away behind closed doors! Just as our most vulnerable people were overlooked at the beginning of this crisis, it would appear no lessons have been learned and families will continue to be deprived of seeing their loved ones for goodness knows how much longer! It’s good the BBC covered this but if it had been given half the airtime that the idiot Trump received, more people may have seen it and got involved in the debate to bring about some urgent change.
@Chaplin i also thought that about the airtime versus Trump, and nobody there from the government, there’s a surprise 🙄. I think they’re hoping we will eventually shut up, sorry but I for one won’t be shutting up. It’s an absolute travesty what is NOT being done.
 

Louise7

Registered User
Mar 25, 2016
2,578
@Louise7 i wasn’t impressed by her comments and thought she was using the insurance thing as a bit of a smoke screen.
I found this on the internet, specifically referring to the care sector and insurance claims arising from covid. The article makes it clear that it is incumbent on the claimant to prove their case and prove breach of duty on the part of the care home. I'm wondering if the actual issue is more a fear that staff/residents could claim that they contracted covid due to visitors being allowed in, particularly in homes which have not so far had an outbreak of covid, rather than a fear that visitors could make a claim themselves?:

Public Liability Claims

These claims will cover general liability to the public and may also provide cover for liability for damages arising from accidental bodily injury. This will usually cover claims where individuals allege that businesses failed to exercise reasonable care in protecting them against or warning them of the risk of exposure to the virus.

Causation

It is incumbent on a Claimant to prove their case. The Claimant will therefore need to prove that they contracted Covid-19 as a result of the Defendant's breach of duty.

Given the virus is so widespread, it may be very difficult to prove where the Claimant contracted the virus. For example, consider an employer's liability claim where a staff member alleges they contracted Covid-19 as a result of the employer's breach of duty or a visitor to a care home bringing a public liability claim. The Claimant will have to show, on the balance of probabilities, that they did not contract the virus elsewhere for example, from a family member with whom they live or a trip to the supermarket.


https://www.trowers.com/insights/20...issues-affecting-the-care-sector-arising-from
 

Baker17

Registered User
Mar 9, 2016
775
I found this on the internet, specifically referring to the care sector and insurance claims arising from covid. The article makes it clear that it is incumbent on the claimant to prove their case and prove breach of duty on the part of the care home. I'm wondering if the actual issue is more a fear that staff/residents could claim that they contracted covid due to visitors being allowed in, particularly in homes which have not so far had an outbreak of covid, rather than a fear that visitors could make a claim themselves?:

Public Liability Claims

These claims will cover general liability to the public and may also provide cover for liability for damages arising from accidental bodily injury. This will usually cover claims where individuals allege that businesses failed to exercise reasonable care in protecting them against or warning them of the risk of exposure to the virus.

Causation

It is incumbent on a Claimant to prove their case. The Claimant will therefore need to prove that they contracted Covid-19 as a result of the Defendant's breach of duty.

Given the virus is so widespread, it may be very difficult to prove where the Claimant contracted the virus. For example, consider an employer's liability claim where a staff member alleges they contracted Covid-19 as a result of the employer's breach of duty or a visitor to a care home bringing a public liability claim. The Claimant will have to show, on the balance of probabilities, that they did not contract the virus elsewhere for example, from a family member with whom they live or a trip to the supermarket.


https://www.trowers.com/insights/20...issues-affecting-the-care-sector-arising-from
@Louise7 I think the same as you, but still think we as visitors in the main have less human contact during the course of a week than the Carers and we are aware of the risks and are prepared to take precautions in order to be able to have meaningful visits. These visits would help with our loved ones well being and also give us peace of mind.
 

Kellyr

Registered User
Aug 8, 2020
101
I watched the article and it was interesting to hear the lady representing care homes (can't remember which association) stating that they want to allow visits but the problems are testing - with often long delays in receiving the results - plus the fact that insurance companies won't indemnify them if visitors catch covid. There are at least two care home chains that are allowing family members in to visit (providing they have tested negative) and my mum's home were allowing indoor visits for around 3 months before closing recently due to a covid outbreak. I wasn't asked to sign anything to indemnify myself in the event that I caught covid in the home but in any case, how on earth would you be able to prove that you caught it there anyway, bearing in mind the numbers of asymptomatic covid positive people? If the issue of insurance indemnity isn't a problem for some care homes perhaps the care home industry should be discussing their insurance indemnity concerns and properly risk assessing the situation?
I was thinking everyone could sign an indemnity saying they wont sue if they or resident/loved one catches it but I guess there will be some pple who wouldnt agree
 

anxious annie

Registered User
Jan 2, 2019
590
Yes it was a shame @Chaplin and @Baker17 that Trump got prime air time, but I would think that with the coverage achieved the subject is now on many other people's radar.
Let's hope so, as I'm another one who won't be giving up.
I think like @Louise7 the homes awe worried about family taking Covid in to residents ( maybe not so much staff, as they could pick it up anywhere outside). If a resident did then catch covid ( especially if that resident hadn't had visitors), then if they sadly died of it, their family may sue as they didn't agree visits could go ahead?
I'm desperate to see my mum, and have been asking the care home manager when we can have indoor visits as its cold outside , but she said there are families who would rather no visits inside as they're worried coved woul be rife in the home and I should think like @Kellyr says wouldn't want to sign an indemnity .
 

Kellyr

Registered User
Aug 8, 2020
101
Yes it was a shame @Chaplin and @Baker17 that Trump got prime air time, but I would think that with the coverage achieved the subject is now on many other people's radar.
Let's hope so, as I'm another one who won't be giving up.
I think like @Louise7 the homes awe worried about family taking Covid in to residents ( maybe not so much staff, as they could pick it up anywhere outside). If a resident did then catch covid ( especially if that resident hadn't had visitors), then if they sadly died of it, their family may sue as they didn't agree visits could go ahead?
I'm desperate to see my mum, and have been asking the care home manager when we can have indoor visits as its cold outside , but she said there are families who would rather no visits inside as they're worried coved woul be rife in the home and I should think like @Kellyr says wouldn't want to sign an indemnity .
Hi @anxious annie my mums home has just started indoor visits today, but its still only half hour a week (if youre lucky) which obvs isnt enough. Theyve put a freestanding plastic screen in the lobby but you still have to wear a mask and gloves as well, which seems abit over the top to me. Your c/home should be trying to make some suitable arrangements. If proper precautions are taken it shouldnt be risky. I will keep my fingers crossed that this happens for you but in the meantime we must keep fighting for proper visits one way or another 🙂🤞
 

anxious annie

Registered User
Jan 2, 2019
590
Hi @Kellyr pleased to hear that you can have an indoor visit, but as you say half hour a week isn't enough. Yes, mask and gloves seem a bit ott. Mums care home are talking about having an indoor room that can be accessed from outside, and also a screen on order, tho no time scale. I will be taking my thermals with me this weekend for a window visit!
 

Trekker

Registered User
Jun 18, 2019
213
London
I hate the visits as they currently are. Indoors, 2 or 3 meters away, mask on, my parents unable to hear or recognize me, my mother trying repetitively - but being stopped - to get up and comeover to me to see, she says, if I really am her daughter. Or instead a completely blank face, no words,nothing, before she finally asks to leave. They get nothing out of it and often refuse to come down. I feel anxious beforehand, distraught afterwards. It would be a huge relief if they stopped visits if this is how they are going to be.
 

lemonbalm

Registered User
May 21, 2018
853
I must admit @Trekker that I never tried the outdoor distanced visits with my mum and now the care-home has closed to visitors completely as a precaution, I am relieved. I know that some homes are organising indoor visits with perspex screens separating the resident and visitor but am actually hoping that mum's doesn't. Mum will think she is in a prison (which I suppose is more or less the case at present). My daily visits used to depend on touch, showing mum magazines, giggling at the clothes, giving her manicures, sharing tea and cake, brushing her hair, moisturising her face and hands, taking her out in the wheelchair. Those visits were stressful enough and were sometimes abandoned. I just can't see that any other sort of visit would work.
 

anxious annie

Registered User
Jan 2, 2019
590
So sorry to hear how the indoor visits are going @Trekker , really hard for you all.
Definitely need the government to test family members so we can get as close as staff do. Will they let you wear the plastic visor? Have you managed to join the rights for residents group who are campaigning to change the current visiting restrictions?
They have a helpful website https:/www.rightsforresidents.co.uk/
 

pjapril

Registered User
Oct 22, 2017
77
what is really interesting is my mum has lost speech and the doctors now caring for her at end of life say they are seeing this more and more - the lockdown as restricted our chances to speak in person with loved ones and it is so so f hard. Covid has taken so much from dementia patients and my heart is with you 100%
 

Trekker

Registered User
Jun 18, 2019
213
London
So sorry to hear how the indoor visits are going @Trekker , really hard for you all.
Definitely need the government to test family members so we can get as close as staff do. Will they let you wear the plastic visor? Have you managed to join the rights for residents group who are campaigning to change the current visiting restrictions?
They have a helpful website https:/www.rightsforresidents.co.uk/
Thank you Annie, I’ll join the group. I can’t wear a visor but have ordered some clear masks so hopefully that will help, but not convinced.
 

Trekker

Registered User
Jun 18, 2019
213
London
what is really interesting is my mum has lost speech and the doctors now caring for her at end of life say they are seeing this more and more - the lockdown as restricted our chances to speak in person with loved ones and it is so so f hard. Covid has taken so much from dementia patients and my heart is with you 100%
I’m so sorry about your mum Pjapril. It is not surprising that PWD are withdrawing in this way. The situation they and we are in is quite literally unspeakably sad. No wonder so many of us, and them, want it all to be over.