Fathers care costs potentially 5k a week

[TheWong]

My father is currently in a nursing home, due to his ongoing violence and difficult behaviour he has a 1 to 1 carer 24 hours a day.

He had his CHC assessment a week and a half ago and due to be being medium risk in other categories apart from behaviour it looks like it will be declined. This means that once the decision is made he will be paying 5k a week, 1500 for the nursing home and 3500 for the 1 to 1 care.

My question is basically has anyone else experienced this as frankly I'm a little bit blown away?

 

[TNJJ]

Hi. That is a tremendous amount. I have not experienced this but there may be others coming along who can help more..

 

[nitram]

Maybe the time has come for him to be put on a section2 and admitted to a psychiatric unit for assessment and medical treatment.

 

[Anthoula]

My goodness, that sum is extortionate.

 

[nitram]

Instead of being sectioned your farther can be admitted to a psychiatric unit as a voluntary patient, he would have to have cognition and appreciate that he needs specialist treatment.

 

[canary]

I have read an awful lot of posts recently about people with dementia in care/nursing homes who are demanding 1-1 24/7 care, at huge extra cost. It seems to be happening simply because the home cannot meet the person with dementias needs.

I think that sectioning would be a good idea - then he would be in an environment that would be able to meet his needs and the staff would be able to assess him and optimise his meds to try and control this aggression. They would also help with placement in a home that would truly be able to cope with him.

 

[TheWong]

Thanks for the answers, realistically no one is going to section him and he is not going to voluntarily go into a psychiatric unit.

In the whole of Surrey this was the only home that could take him and if i explained what he gets up to it would be clear a 1 to 1 is needed. I just wondered if anyone else had paid this level of costs.

 

[update2020]

Thanks for the answers, realistically no one is going to section him and he is not going to voluntarily go into a psychiatric unit.

In the whole of Surrey this was the only home that could take him and if i explained what he gets up to it would be clear a 1 to 1 is needed. I just wondered if anyone else had paid this level of costs.

Perhaps you don't want to say but why won't anyone section him?

 

[TheWong]

Well he's been assessed by a psychiatrist, a couple of mental health nurses and at least 2 Drs and he's sitting in a care home so it seems unlikely.

 

[Felixcat1]

This sounds to me as though the home don’t really want to take him so have made up an extortionate fee. Somebody would be making an awful lot by charging that amount and I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t be the carers looking after your dad. Perhaps ask to see the breakdown of costs so you can see why they are charging so much.

 

[TheWong]

Their breakdown is actually ok, 1500 base cost for the nursing home then 20x24x7=3360 for 1 to 1 (from an outside agency as it has to be a male)

 

[TheWong]

The thing is the moneys gone, with his property and savings he has a year and a half of care then the government will have to take over. I was just interested if anyone else had had to pay this much.

 

[update2020]

Their breakdown is actually ok, 1500 base cost for the nursing home then 20x24x7=3360 for 1 to 1 (from an outside agency as it has to be a male)

The thing is the moneys gone, with his property and savings he has a year and a half of care then the government will have to take over. I was just interested if anyone else had had to pay this much.

No - we didn’t pay that much.

 

[Grancan1313]

Could he be reassessed to see if he could be moved to a different level of care I would expect that cost you would def meet chc if you don’t then maybe that category of care is not warranted ? Sometimes homes Say a person needs this care level to make for their own gains. I work for social services And we see it often.

 

[Jaded'n'faded]

I don't think it's likely he will get CHC either. I think you'd be best pursuing the psychiatric route.

What I don't understand is, if he is violent to the extent he needs someone with him 24/7, isn't that grounds for sectioning? That's what would normally happen with any other person who behaved in that way so how come he's in a care home and you (his funds) are having to pay?

What would happen if you refused to pay for the 1-to-1? Presumably the home would say they couldn't cope with him and it would be up to SS to find him a place that could?

It's one thing paying for a care home but if someone is that bad that they need 1-to1 care as well, it sounds as though they need to be properly assessed, tried on different meds, etc. And that's what would happen if he was sectioned.

 

[nitram]

An assessment of Priority in the Behaviour domain of the DST would constitute a Primary Health Need and award of CHC.

Required level of need is

‘Challenging’ behaviour of a severity and/or frequency and/or unpredictability that presents an immediate and serious risk to self, others or property. The risks are so serious that they require access to an immediate and skilled response at all times for safe care.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1093081/decision-support-tool-2022-july-update.odt

 

[Pots and Pans]

Scary amount. My husband was very challenging and care home - who thought they could cope - were unable to do so (mostly used antipsychotics which made him worse, and I believe they were understaffed) and he was sectioned from the care home. No one ever tried to section him from living at home with me, despite aggression leading to police on quite a few times So much better in hospital and having 1-2-1 as deemed necessary. On this, without any antipsychotics he is no longer aggressive and next step now has to be thought of. I will be pushing for somewhere with 1-2-1 and when his funds run out it will then be social services paying. But suspect it could be a battle. Or only for the time he can pay And also need to find a place that can do this. Worried.
I suspect fee you are quoted is so high as home using agency staff... The home my OH was in said they can't get staff for 1-2-1. Noone wants the job! Think we all need to lobby the government to give out visas for care home staff as I suspect that might help - at present I believe EU workers ( and in my experience a lot of great care workers have come from Eastern Europe) can only get visas to work here if earn over a certain amount, which is higher than a care home salary. Fee would be less if the carer for your dad was an employee, not agency. And I think better too as probably more continuity.

 

[HelpInOut]

An assessment of Priority in the Behaviour domain of the DST would constitute a Primary Health Need and award of CHC.

Required level of need is

‘Challenging’ behaviour of a severity and/or frequency and/or unpredictability that presents an immediate and serious risk to self, others or property. The risks are so serious that they require access to an immediate and skilled response at all times for safe care.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1093081/decision-support-tool-2022-july-update.odt

That's my take on it too. A carer is not a suitably skilled person and a nursing home is not a suitable environment for someone who has such mental healthcare needs. I think I'd be putting pressure on the Mental health team who've assessed him. It's just as much about his safety and dignity as it is about the money. Makes me awfully sad, and as a retired nurse, quite ashamed that we're failing people so badly.

 

[TheWong]

Thanks for all the replies, sorry if I came across a little short in previous posts the last 3 months have been quite a ride.

My father died 2 days ago, i'm sad but also glad as he was a good man who didn't deserve the remarkably undignified journey to death he was experiencing.

 

[Violet Jane]

@TheWong, condolences on your loss. I had exactly the same mix of feelings when my mother died.