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Father-in-law to have an operation

Amy in the US

Registered User
Feb 28, 2015
4,617
USA
DMac, I don't feel you are judging or being inappropriate in any way, no worries, please.

I hadn't considered what you said, about issues being interconnected and it being difficult to separate them. I think that I am better now at compartmentalizing things than I used to be (thanks a lot, dementia) but I do have a lot of difficulty with things bleeding over, especially emotions.

I have no interest in bungee jumping. I think I'm too old for that; it looks like it would hurt and give me a headache. Or maybe I've always been too old for it!

I meant it when I said this job looked great on paper: part time, office setting, easy commute, I'm qualified, it would be a way to get back into the job market after many years of not working, didn't have to look for it, they would be more than reasonably understanding about a dementia emergency, et cetera. I have been as clear as I can be to them, that I am conflicted and uncertain. I'm waiting to hear about salary and hours. The pay may be the sticking point, actually. I've worked there in the past at a low hourly wage, which was fine when it was only a few hours once a year. For a longer commitment, I want more money. Since they may want me to work there for longer than just the 6-8 weeks needed to cover my friend's leave (in a different position that interests me more and would be more challenging), I am reluctant to agree to the lower rate of pay now, feeling that this would lock me in forever, if that makes any sense. The person who sets the salaries is not the friend in question and is, er, frugal. While I may not be able to refuse my friend personally, I may be able to say, no, I won't do this, because you are not going to pay me enough money to make it worth my time. And then the person who refuses to pay me a decent wage can be the bad guy, not me. I hope?

It's just all so weirdly distressing.

But back to Dmac's job interview. What you say about the job itself sounds good, especially the good people and good employer and good pension. How is the location/commute? You sound uncertain about jumping in full-time right away, or maybe I'm reading into your post. I can definitely understand that.
 

Shedrech

Volunteer Moderator
Dec 15, 2012
9,228
Yorkshire
Hi all
so interesting about jobs - as someone who has just decided to opt out of the whole work scenario, maybe I shouldn't comment
but I will anyway!

DMac
what is this???
And I especially don't want the conflict between sudden demands from (or on behalf) of my in-laws, and meeting work requirements.
the job is for YOU - you have (!) stepped back to let the younger in-laws deal with the older in-laws = no conflict: younger in-laws will have to sort themselves out - be brutal
However:
Ah, heck, I just have to go for it, what will be, will be
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES! :D
Do not talk yourself out of this - it's come at just the right time - go for it - IF you then find it's not what you want, you negotiate, you leave ... you are not signing your life away. And 'fear' is good, it means you do want this - no 'fear' = you don't care.

Amy in the US
However contradictory this may seem after what I've put to DMac - I agree with CeliaThePoet - alarm bells are ringing in my ears - taking the job to fill in for a friend BUT so many "probably" and
I feel trapped
and
The job makes fire look good, to me, to be honest
Your own language seems to be arguing against you.
Only do it because YOU want the job - if you don't want it, but you get it you will not have a comfortable day at work - and what's the point of that??

CeliaThePoet
I am very ready to make a move
You sound so positive and clear.
Maybe your responsibilities as a carer will have an impact - but that's a maybe, it's for the future and you'll deal with it then.
For now, go for it.

Please all remember that an interview works both ways - make sure they ARE offering you what you want and feel free to let them know if you're not hearing the right things from them - from my experience secure, sincere employers rather like to be tested themselves. (teaching - grandma - sucking eggs - SORRY)

You all deserve to find the right post for you - I wish each of you exactly what you truly wish for yourself

and keep us up-dated :)

PS - I took so long to type that you've added a lot
hey ho - read and ignore
 
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DMac

Registered User
Jul 18, 2015
535
Surrey, UK
Thank you all who have commented on the scary job situation!

Celia, of course, you have my best wishes, too. Your job offer sounds good! I hope it works out for you and of course, please let us know how you get on.

Shedrech, just to clarify my comment 'And I especially don't want the conflict between sudden demands from (or on behalf) of my in-laws, and meeting work requirements':

I have found that by providing a fairly intensive level of care over the past few months, I have worked out how things work, I have contacts, I know pitfalls to avoid...a bit like a job, in fact! So whilst it's easy to say 'step back', I'm the one who people phone up when there's a new appointment or a new delivery, or whatever. It then becomes my job to find one of my OH's siblings to fill in because I can't attend the appointment, can't be there to take delivery, or whatever. If they do agree to step in, I find myself giving them instructions about things they won't know about because they haven't experienced it, e.g. allowing enough time to find a parking space at the hospital, or sourcing a wheelchair for FiL, because otherwise they will miss the appointment and FiL will be discharged from the process and it will be another 6 months before he has a chance to be seen again....oh, the ANXIETY!! I feel like I've got a job I can't ever leave! Alas, allowing failure doesn't come easily to me. :eek:

But you are right, I do have to be brutal, and I have to draw the line somewhere. And yes, I do need to take this opportunity with both hands and give it a good go!

Amy, I do think you need to put YOURSELF first in your job considerations. Yes, you can blame the wage-setter if the pay is not good enough if that gives you a convenient excuse (I'd do the same, I admit!), but do not feel that you 'owe' your friend. It has to be right for you, or else you will be unhappy and that will ultimately make things worse.

To answer your questions, the job is in a town about 7 miles from where I live - a fairly easy drive, though rush-hour traffic can be a problem at times (the trick is an early start). The job is full-time, which is not ideal as I'd prefer part-time. But they do offer flexi-time, so I can leave early if I need to, as long as I work the core hours in the middle of each day. Last time I worked there, I found that this policy meant that I couldn't attend many hospital appointments with my FiL, as inevitably they need a whole morning or afternoon, taking into account the logistics of getting him to and from appointments (see above). I asked if I could have some more flexibility in my working pattern to allow for this, and was told No. I could have had a 9-day fortnight, provided I had the same day off every time, but that was no help. I discussed the issue with the HR manager, who was sympathetic, but still the answer was No. So the only answer I can see is that my OH and his siblings will have to grapple with the problem, and work out their own solution.
 

Amy in the US

Registered User
Feb 28, 2015
4,617
USA
DMac, I know what you mean about the appointments taking much longer than the actual appointment. I also understand that you've been providing very good care for your in-laws and that it's hard to step back from that, for a variety of reasons.

Please understand that I mean this in the best possible way and am motivated from concern for your well-being and do not mean to sound critical! I think it is time, possibly past time, for you to step back and let your husband, and his siblings, take care of their father. I mean this with no judgement of anything you have or haven't done in the past, just that it's reasonable for them to be more involved in his care. (And dare I say, they will appreciate you more after they've been to a few of those appointments.)

This new job could be a really good way for you to help to find where to draw your line. Again, I know this is easier said than done, and I'm not dismissing all the work that you've done, just thinking maybe it's time for someone else to step up more. I know you don't always see eye-to-eye with them about what needs to happen, and that's challenging, but there could be a way to move forward with you doing less of the work that requires you to be present for hours at a time. Perhaps you might shift to doing more things that aren't as time sensitive or can be done remotely and on your own schedule?

I also think that if you take the job, as it's full-time, that your OH or one of his siblings or basically anybody but you, should take over the job of "care coordinator." Not to sound alarmist, but that's the part of all of this that can feel like more than a full-time job, and the part that seems most likely to interfere with your job and your life. Need I remind you, as I am so often reminded here, that you have a right to your own life and chosen work? (That was said with a smile!)

I do hope you're not offended, but I think it sounds like you've been doing the lion's share of the work. What would they do if you were had the flu, or were in hospital yourself (God forbid), or took off for the French Riviera for six months or something? They would have to cope, that's what.

I'm going to shut up before you start flinging vegetables at me!
 

DMac

Registered User
Jul 18, 2015
535
Surrey, UK
DMac, I know what you mean about the appointments taking much longer than the actual appointment. I also understand that you've been providing very good care for your in-laws and that it's hard to step back from that, for a variety of reasons.

Please understand that I mean this in the best possible way and am motivated from concern for your well-being and do not mean to sound critical! I think it is time, possibly past time, for you to step back and let your husband, and his siblings, take care of their father. I mean this with no judgement of anything you have or haven't done in the past, just that it's reasonable for them to be more involved in his care. (And dare I say, they will appreciate you more after they've been to a few of those appointments.)

This new job could be a really good way for you to help to find where to draw your line. Again, I know this is easier said than done, and I'm not dismissing all the work that you've done, just thinking maybe it's time for someone else to step up more. I know you don't always see eye-to-eye with them about what needs to happen, and that's challenging, but there could be a way to move forward with you doing less of the work that requires you to be present for hours at a time. Perhaps you might shift to doing more things that aren't as time sensitive or can be done remotely and on your own schedule?

I also think that if you take the job, as it's full-time, that your OH or one of his siblings or basically anybody but you, should take over the job of "care coordinator." Not to sound alarmist, but that's the part of all of this that can feel like more than a full-time job, and the part that seems most likely to interfere with your job and your life. Need I remind you, as I am so often reminded here, that you have a right to your own life and chosen work? (That was said with a smile!)

I do hope you're not offended, but I think it sounds like you've been doing the lion's share of the work. What would they do if you were had the flu, or were in hospital yourself (God forbid), or took off for the French Riviera for six months or something? They would have to cope, that's what.

I'm going to shut up before you start flinging vegetables at me!
Amy, thank you - I take everything you've said on board, and no offence taken whatsoever! No vegetebles coming your way, either!

Interestingly enough, I think my OH would agree with every bit of advice you've given me as well. So there it is - I've prepared for the interview, I'm going for it! I will report back. And do let us know what you decide about your job as well. xx
 

Shedrech

Volunteer Moderator
Dec 15, 2012
9,228
Yorkshire
just to say fingers still firmly crossed - getting tricky to type and drink my cuppa but will persevere since the pain is in such a good cause ;)
 

love.dad.but..

Registered User
Jan 16, 2014
4,557
Kent
Hi DMac...my dad aged 84 had problems with a very large iguinal hernia for about 18 mths before it was decided to operate after a lot of pain for him and affecting his already dementia suffering quality of life. I was called to his nursing home in the middle of the night, he had symptons that meant it may be strangulating which is life threatening and would need immediate surgery. I and the paramedics together with an on call surgeon at the local hospital decided as he appeared stable to get GP to visit in the morning. GP visited and called an ambulance. It was very traumatic for Dad (and me) as he was assessed in hospital, Dr trying to manually push the bulge back up and with Dad so frightened it was terrible having to hold him down for even his temp being taken. Dad because of heart bypass history with high bp was high risk for the op under a general, first anaesthetist refused (which we fully accepted and understood as risks of op were so high) to operate but fortunately the surgeon and second anaesthetist said in the circumstances if Dad was their father like us, we would want to get him comfortable and pain free even taking a risk especially as the dementia (mentally early advanced) was only heading one way. Pre dementia we are sure Dad would have made this decision. So.... yes a chance is being taken on just about every level ie that the dementia worsens as a result but it is going to worsen anyway, without the dementia he would have probably agreed to the op weighing up the risks for himself..he was in serious danger of it strangulating and the surgeon explained that you then have an hour to operate before it can become fatal.but I couldn't sit by after months of pain and discomfort with him not understanding why he was in pain and not be proactive, fortunately the surgical team thought the same. That was a year ago and physically he recovered really well and it was nice this last Xmas to see him pain free. I had an extremely difficult 10 days staying with Dad in hospital, trying to keep him on the ward, holding him down for any procedure but I would do exactly the same and make the same decision putting dad's current quality of pain free life first, fortunately for us the surgical team agreed. I hope this helps, for me the decision to operate was the right one even if Dad had not come through the op and signing the consent form wasn't easy but it was the right thing to do for Dad.
 

DMac

Registered User
Jul 18, 2015
535
Surrey, UK
Update

Love.dad.but - thank you so much for sharing your story. It really does help. It has confirmed in my mind that going ahead with the operation is the right thing to do, in spite of the risks.

It's not long until the operation now, just over 2 weeks away. It feels like the calm before the storm right now.

Meanwhile, I took FiL to a community mental health hospital earlier this week. My SiL came along, too. There is no diagnosis as such yet, but early indications are that he may have a mix of Alzheimer's and vascular dementia. I'm just waiting for an appointment to come through for a brain scan.

Also meanwhile - and very many apologies for the delay in the update - I didn't get the job I applied for. Apparently, I didn't meet the requirements. This is in spite of me having worked there before, at a higher grade job, and getting good feedback & reviews. I have since found out from a friend who still work there that the person they offered the job to has turned it down. So the job will be re-advertised soon. However I would feel too embarrassed to re-apply.

So I've decided to apply for some voluntary work instead, helping elderly people and people with dementia. I'm hoping that I might be able to help people who are faced with a similar journey. Who knows, it may lead to a late career change as well!
 

doodle1

Registered User
May 11, 2012
248
This thread has cheered me up so much - such kindness and common sense thank you
Dmac - with your knowledge helping the elderly will be a doddle and they will be lucky.
 

Hair Twiddler

Registered User
Aug 14, 2012
892
Middle England
Also meanwhile - and very many apologies for the delay in the update - I didn't get the job I applied for. Apparently, I didn't meet the requirements. This is in spite of me having worked there before, at a higher grade job, and getting good feedback & reviews. I have since found out from a friend who still work there that the person they offered the job to has turned it down. So the job will be re-advertised soon. However I would feel too embarrassed to re-apply.
Hi DMac, Sorry you weren't successful. Have you thought about phoning up their HR person (or whoever interviewed you) and saying a little about your disappointment but wonder if they could expand a little more on the area that they felt you didn't meet their requirements. Nothing pushy just a gentle enquiry. It will be mighty brave to do this and a little nerve wracking but it will get your name in their head again and who knows they might reconsider your application. Nothing ventured nothing gained?
Best wishes.
 

DMac

Registered User
Jul 18, 2015
535
Surrey, UK
Hi DMac, Sorry you weren't successful. Have you thought about phoning up their HR person (or whoever interviewed you) and saying a little about your disappointment but wonder if they could expand a little more on the area that they felt you didn't meet their requirements. Nothing pushy just a gentle enquiry. It will be mighty brave to do this and a little nerve wracking but it will get your name in their head again and who knows they might reconsider your application. Nothing ventured nothing gained?
Best wishes.
Thank you for your kind thoughts, Hair Twiddler. Ordinarily, I would say that this is very good advice. In my case though, because I have worked there before, I think they had already decided that they don't want an 'old face' back again, and the interview was just for show. I'm not sure that I could say anything to change their decision. I also believe that it's wise to choose your battles carefully, and to be honest, I'd rather let this one go. I'm trying instead to look positively towards a future where I can use my skills to help people who really need someone to fight their corner. I'm in the process of applying for a couple of voluntary positions, and I'll write again to let you know how I get on.

Thank you for your kindness - I really appreciate it.
 

DMac

Registered User
Jul 18, 2015
535
Surrey, UK
Update - advice needed on angry S-i-L

F-i-L had his operation last Monday. The op itself appears to have been successful. However, he now has a UTI and is back in hospital on an acute ward. In fairness, the doctors did warn us something like this might happen.

There is a brand new GP led unit in the hospital that does assessments for over 65s, with links to SS, OTs and PTs. They have advised us to press for a discharge (when the time comes) to a community hospital, where (I hope) he can recover at his own pace. They have also said that he must have the right care package in place for when (if?) he comes home. I do so hope this happens, because there is no way he can come back to his home right now. He's at risk of falling, is faecally incontinent, and M-i-L also has dementia. His current care package just couldn't meet his needs. Just so, so worried about what will happen next.

On top of all that, my sister-in-law is really angry with me for helping out. All I did was to call an ambulance and go with him to the hospital, because he's incapable of communicating. She says things like, "What if we all lived in Australia?". I said I was going to take his overnight bag to him, and she practically exploded at me. "Do it if it makes you feel better!" she said. I'm puzzled and saddened. I don't need her haranguing right now. I don't want to fall out with her either. I'm just ignoring her for the time being, but can anyone give me an insight as to why she is so angry, and what I can do about it? I don't want to make things worse.

Thankfully, other members of the family are more supportive. Everyone is rallying round with hospital visits and looking after M-i-L. I'm taking M-i-L to the hospital this afternoon to see him. I'm hoping to get an update from the ward staff as well, to find out what is wrong with him and what the next stage of his treatment/ recovery is likely to be.
 

fizzie

Registered User
Jul 20, 2011
2,727
Hi DMac, you are having a difficult time.
I guess no-one but your SiL knows why she is so angry - perhaps the diagnosis has affected her very deeply, as it does all of us, and she is reacting from fear and stress or perhaps she is angry because she can't change the way forward and feels powerless and perhaps because you are so very kind, she is taking it out on you.
There's nought so strange as folk as my grandma used to say and she was one of the first nurses at St Bartholomew's in London - she knew and I think she would have advised you to keep going, supporting your FiL when he needs it and ignore the reactions of others because he is the one that needs the focus. Hard to do but if you worry about too many people in the end you will sink :) and that's not going to happen because in the midst of all the hooohah I do hope you are taking some care of yourself too.
Sounds as though you have some professional support there too from the hospital team and I hope that the next part goes smoothly and that you get support with the decisions that need to be made.
Thinking of you x
 

DMac

Registered User
Jul 18, 2015
535
Surrey, UK
Hi DMac, you are having a difficult time.
I guess no-one but your SiL knows why she is so angry - perhaps the diagnosis has affected her very deeply, as it does all of us, and she is reacting from fear and stress or perhaps she is angry because she can't change the way forward and feels powerless and perhaps because you are so very kind, she is taking it out on you.
There's nought so strange as folk as my grandma used to say and she was one of the first nurses at St Bartholomew's in London - she knew and I think she would have advised you to keep going, supporting your FiL when he needs it and ignore the reactions of others because he is the one that needs the focus. Hard to do but if you worry about too many people in the end you will sink :) and that's not going to happen because in the midst of all the hooohah I do hope you are taking some care of yourself too.
Sounds as though you have some professional support there too from the hospital team and I hope that the next part goes smoothly and that you get support with the decisions that need to be made.
Thinking of you x
Thank you fizzie, as always, for your kind words and support. It means a lot to me.

F-i-L is going to be in this hospital for at least another 3 days. They are going to try to get him walking tomorrow. He will remain on antibiotics for 5 more days. It seems that the next step rather depends on him showing some signs of recovery. If the outlook is good, then he'll go to the community hospital to recuperate. if not, he may be sent home with an enhanced care package. That's assuming he'll be safe at home. Seeing him today tugging at his cannula tubes and his catheter bag, clearly irritated by all these attachments, I can't see that he'd be safe at home at all. Ho hum, let's see what tomorrow brings...
 

Amy in the US

Registered User
Feb 28, 2015
4,617
USA
DMac, I had lost sight of this thread, and then haven't been here as much lately, and goodness, I don't really know where to begin.

I am glad the surgery went well because I know what a problem the hernia was, but of course I'm terribly sorry about the UTI and re-admission to hospital.

Of course you are worried about him, and what will happen, and to where he will be transferred and eventually discharged. How could you not be concerned? From what you've said, it sounds like home is no longer a safe option, for a variety of reasons.

I hope you won't take this the wrong way, because of course I wouldn't wish the UTI and acute ward on anyone, but perhaps this will be a way (although not the way you'd choose) for your parents-in-law to get the care they need. Sometimes, or often, it takes a crisis of some sort, to get the help in place.

I don't really know what to say about your SIL, other than what other posters have already said. I am sure she is emotional and sorry she is taking it out on you this way.

As far as insight about why your SIL might be acting this way:

-she is probably feeling very emotional. Maybe scared, angry, guilty, worried, irritated, frustrated, upset, or a combination of those.

-you may be a "safe" target for her to vent her feelings. She may be feeling angry at the disease: nobody to yell at. She may be feeling angry at her father for not being healthier: probably not going to yell at him. She may be feeling angry at the doctors/nurses/hospital: again, unlikely to yell. She may be angry with herself for feeling all these things. She may need someone to yell at, and for some reason (that I couldn't guess at unless I knew you both better), she may have chosen you.

-or if she's feeling guilty, your innocent and reasonable comment that you were taking him an overnight bag, may have set her off because she feels she "should" be the one to do that, but maybe she doesn't really want to, so then she would feel more guilty, but you're doing it, so then she might feel angry at you and explode? Or something like that?

-or, you could just have been in the wrong place at the wrong time

As far as going forward with your SIL, well, I'm not sure what to suggest. I probably wouldn't contact her. If this is your husband's sister, I'd have him be the contact person, in fact. I really don't know, but I do know it's upsetting for you, and I'm sorry. Do please try to remember that you are NOT in charge of how she feels or what she does, you are only in charge of you, and you can only do as much as one person can do.

Easy to say and hard to do. When you have a chance, keep us updated. Hoping for a good physical recovery for your FIL.

(I know I haven't addressed the work issues and other things but it doesn't seem like the time right now.)
 

DMac

Registered User
Jul 18, 2015
535
Surrey, UK
Thank you Amy for your reply. I had a nice chat with my hairdresser today (always good to confide in!) and it has helped me to understand why my S-i-L reacted the way she did. I think it all comes down to a bad history between us concerning money, unfortunately.

I should explain that she is an in-law like me; her husband and my husband are the 2 eldest sons, and these 2 sons both have joint and several PoA over both parents' affairs.

Going back 2 years ago, after my F-i-L was discharged from hospital following his bowel cancer op, he had a re-ablement package in place. As part of this, they started a financial assessment process. For some reason, she took it upon herself to take charge of filling in the financial forms. I didn't think anything of it at the time, trusting she was just doing her bit to help out, until I found out that she had 'forgotten' to declare one of F-i-L's bank accounts. Now, I worked for a local council at the time, I know a bit about their checking processes, and I told her that this 'omission' would be quickly discovered. Thankfully, she believed me, and she withdrew the application for financial support. Since then, F-i-L has been receiving once-daily visits from a care agency, and has been self-funding ever since.

That didn't satisfy her, though. Her next trick was to persuade her husband to persuade F-i-L to gift their joint share portfolio to her, me, and my 2 other sisters-in-law. It's quite a substantial sum, well over the savings threshold. It would provide full care home funding for one person for about 4 years. When I found out, I was livid, and I transferred my 'share' to the 3 other S-i-Ls. I'm more annoyed that I'm now implicated in this crime, as I can hardly deny knowledge of it.

I took some advice from a legal person, who suggested that when the time comes for an increase in care needs, the 2 PoAs should make a financial application, but make a full and frank disclosure of all the facts. My husband has agreed that this is the right thing to do, thankfully. Also, it seems sensible to me to make an application - after all, even bringing the portfolio into account, their assets could be burned through pretty quickly (especially if they both need care). She, on the other hand, insists that there is no need to declare anything about the portfolio because the transfer was made 'before' they needed care. I know, and I'm sure everyone reading this, can see quite plainly that this constitutes deliberate deprivation of assets. I have tried to explain in some detail the checking processes that the Council will use to trace their assets, but she just refuses to hear me.

The story gets worse. Yesterday, when M-i-L and I went to the hospital, she let herself into their house, obviously looking for something. I only know because she left a note behind (unsigned) telling M-i-L to feed the cats. I recognised her writing. I'm sure she did not intend that I should see this note. I suspect she was looking for the deeds to the house. I suspect that she intends to persuade her husband to use his powers to transfer the house to herself, or one of her children. Then again, perhaps my imagination is taking a flight of fancy. I hope so.

I think her motive possibly comes from a genuine frustration that people who have worked hard all of their lives, lived sensibly and saved their money, should not have their savings and assets 'raided' to pay for their care. I think she sees the effort that other members of the family put in to keep the parents together in their own home as postponing the time when, inevitably, Social Services will need to step in and provide their care. She may have a point, there are always 2 sides to a story. But I still feel I'm doing the right thing by supporting them at this time of crisis. as you said, Amy, it usually takes a crisis to get any meaningful change put in place. As I see it, we have to do everything we can to get their needs assessed and met - they are entitled to an assessment regardless of their financial status - and then we can sort out who pays for what and when.
 

Amy in the US

Registered User
Feb 28, 2015
4,617
USA
I also find a nice chat with my hairdresser, can help enormously!

DMac, thank you for the background info. That certainly does explain quite a lot more about the situation. She's clearly deluded, or to be kinder, confused, about the finances and so forth.

If your husband and her husband (the brothers) have joint and several PoA, does that mean that they have to agree about decisions? Or can one act without the other?

I also hope your imagination is working overtime and that she was just nosing around in general.

This is where my knowledge of the UK system breaks down. Here in the States, even if she could transfer the deed/title of the house to someone else, it's not as if the authorities wouldn't know about that when it came time to assessing finances for (in our case, Medicaid) funding, and allowances would be made for the value and/or penalties assessed. You wouldn't be able to "hide" the assets in that way (maybe in other ways, but that's another story). But I'm not sure how it works on your side of the pond.

As you say, DMac, she may have some genuine frustration regarding the finances and what your parents-in-law will, or won't, be able to do with their savings. Fair enough, and as you say, always at least two sides to every story.

However, I wonder if your SIL is suffering from something that seems, from my support groups and my reading here on TP, to be all too common: the inheritance version of counting your chickens before they hatch, or somehow thinking one is "entitled" to an assumed inheritance (money and/or property) while the owners of that money and property are still alive! It seems to be a common situation both from the point of view of the children who assume they will inherit, and the parents who assume they will have assets to leave.

My viewpoint is that whatever assets my parent has, are hers, and I will spend every penny for the best possible care for her. When she dies, if there happens to be anything left over, fine, but those assets are NOT MY MONEY, full stop. I don't make any financial decisions for her with an eye to preserving an inheritance for me. (Smart allocation of her resources so they will last as long as possible, yes. Saving money for me, no.) So basically I think your SIL is as nutty as a granola bar, but that's just my opinion, which you should feel free to ignore!

But I can see it's bound to cause tension and drama, and for that, I am truly sorry.

How is your FIL today?
 

DMac

Registered User
Jul 18, 2015
535
Surrey, UK
I also find a nice chat with my hairdresser, can help enormously!

DMac, thank you for the background info. That certainly does explain quite a lot more about the situation. She's clearly deluded, or to be kinder, confused, about the finances and so forth.

If your husband and her husband (the brothers) have joint and several PoA, does that mean that they have to agree about decisions? Or can one act without the other?

I also hope your imagination is working overtime and that she was just nosing around in general.

This is where my knowledge of the UK system breaks down. Here in the States, even if she could transfer the deed/title of the house to someone else, it's not as if the authorities wouldn't know about that when it came time to assessing finances for (in our case, Medicaid) funding, and allowances would be made for the value and/or penalties assessed. You wouldn't be able to "hide" the assets in that way (maybe in other ways, but that's another story). But I'm not sure how it works on your side of the pond.

As you say, DMac, she may have some genuine frustration regarding the finances and what your parents-in-law will, or won't, be able to do with their savings. Fair enough, and as you say, always at least two sides to every story.

However, I wonder if your SIL is suffering from something that seems, from my support groups and my reading here on TP, to be all too common: the inheritance version of counting your chickens before they hatch, or somehow thinking one is "entitled" to an assumed inheritance (money and/or property) while the owners of that money and property are still alive! It seems to be a common situation both from the point of view of the children who assume they will inherit, and the parents who assume they will have assets to leave.

My viewpoint is that whatever assets my parent has, are hers, and I will spend every penny for the best possible care for her. When she dies, if there happens to be anything left over, fine, but those assets are NOT MY MONEY, full stop. I don't make any financial decisions for her with an eye to preserving an inheritance for me. (Smart allocation of her resources so they will last as long as possible, yes. Saving money for me, no.) So basically I think your SIL is as nutty as a granola bar, but that's just my opinion, which you should feel free to ignore!

But I can see it's bound to cause tension and drama, and for that, I am truly sorry.

How is your FIL today?
Hello Amy,

Thank you for reading my missive and for your kind response. Yes, absolutely, S-i-L is definitely as nutty as a granola bar! That has made me laugh! :D

The 2 brothers have joint and several power of attorney, which means they can act independently of one another, so one could take action without the express agreement of the other. So it's a potential worry. :(

Yes, the authorities will know about a property transfer (if this happens). There is a Land Registry here in the UK, where all property ownership and transfers are stored. It is very easy for a Council to search this. Likewise, I believe they will have access to the databases that list share ownerships and transfers. So whatever schemes she gets up to to try to hide their assets, she won't succeed - there will be no hiding place.

I think you are right that S-i-L is suffering from a false sense of entitlement to an inheritance, although I know she would insist otherwise. I agree with you totally on the principles of managing money for my parents-in-law's benefit ONLY. I just think that she (via her husband) and I (via mine) have totally different ideas about what this means in practice.

Anyway, I'm off shortly to take M-i-L to see F-i-L in hospital. She called me not so long ago all in tears, as she had forgotten that I'd said I'd take her. She is suffering so much because the situation is so out of control for her, it breaks my heart. I will give an update soon. Thank you so much for reading this, and for your kindness. It really helps.