1. Kat

    Kat Registered User

    Jan 24, 2005
    15
    London
    When is something going to change in the law...?
    Does anyone know if there is away around this without it being deprivation?

    Ok, situation is (like many others I'm sure) we found out that mum had Alzheimer's too late, so we could not put in place an Enduring power of attorney. My parents had a jointly owned property until we changed the deeds to tenants in common.

    The only reason we still have the house is because my dad is still alive and living in the property, as soon as he passes away (and not for along time I hope) we will have to sell dad's half and the government take mums half.

    Another way of keeping the house is if you have a child under 16 years of age living in the property. Now, my mum has one grandchild (18 months), what if my brother, partner & child moved into dad's? When dad passes away (horrible to think about these things) we will not be able to hold onto the house but if there is a child living in the property, won't that change? Why should my parents lose the house just like that, when all they have done is work hard to pay for it!

    My brother & his little family have recently moved into the mother in laws flat so they can save some money for a deposit but it is really cramped at hers and he doesn't really get on with her. My dad has an empty 3 bedroom house, could they not move into dads house, would that work, anyone have any answers?

    My partner and I are currently living at dads so we can save our deposit for our own house. We aim to move out by summer this year but dad will be on his own again and with 2 empty rooms. Is there anything wrong if my brother and his family moved into dads, dad would love to have people around and especially his grandchild?! Anyone have any comments on this?
     
  2. Sheila

    Sheila Registered User

    Oct 23, 2003
    2,259
    West Sussex
    Dear Kat, this is a legal mine field when it comes to sorting things at death, I suggest you speak to the Alzheimers helpline because they will I am sure be able to point you in the right direction. We are not professionals on here, just others in the same boat as you. Personally, I can't see why your brother can't move in, after all, your Dad is very much alive and would like them to anyway. Surely, the powers that be cannot tell a family where they must live if there is more room for them at your Dads? This is just my own feelings of course, but I can't see how they could stop it. It happens all the time, children moving back in with parents etc. For all sorts of reasons. We did it 3 times over the years, then my Mum moved in with us, it's natural, shows you care about each other, it's what families do. Hope it all works out for you. Love She. XX
     
  3. Sally

    Sally Registered User

    Mar 16, 2004
    114
    London
    Dear Kat,

    The rules which govern residential accommodation are abbreviated to CRAG (Charging for Residential Accommodation Guide). They can be found at the Dep of Health website : http://www.dh.gov.uk/assetRoot/04/09/02/46/04090246.pdf

    The rules for disregarding property state that if a relative over 60 lives in the house, a relative who is incapacitated lives in the house OR 'a relative who is aged under 16 and a child and whom the resident is liable to maintain' lives in the house, it is completely disregarded. I am not sure that you could argue that your Mum is 'liable' to maintain the relatives thinking of moving in.

    The local authority have discretion in these cases but their options would be as follows:
    1) ignore the property because they accept that there are relatives living there
    2)argue that the people living there only moved in to save the house from being used to pay for care (deliberate deprivation) and ask the family to move out
    3) If (2) happened, the family could either move out and sell, or not move out but accept that the local authority would place a charge against the property. This would mean that whenever the house was eventually sold, the local authority would take back the money that would have been spent on residential care.

    You can e mail the Dep of Health through their website if you need clarification of the relative under 16 rule but this is my reading of it.

    Sally
    x x
     
  4. Kat

    Kat Registered User

    Jan 24, 2005
    15
    London
    Thank you both for the advice.

    And thank you Sally for the link. When we saw our solicitor (a while ago now) he did mention that If I had not moved out of my parents house (which was only for 18 months to live with my boyfriend) we may have a better argument to keep hold of the house but because I did move out, we don't have a thing to help us.

    I only moved out for 18 months and then moved back in again. It was interesting because he did ask if my name was on the actual council tax bill at my other address and of course it was.
    So, the tip is, if I'm aloud to say this, is don't have the council tax in your name, have it in your partners name and also when you vote make sure you are registered at your parents address.

    Anyway, nothing is for certain, it's all too confusing for me at times. Too much to think about.

    It's wrong to take people's homes away. You're better off not having a property or have any savings!
     
  5. Sally

    Sally Registered User

    Mar 16, 2004
    114
    London
    Dear Kat,

    If it is any consolation I do not think that the local authority will decide whether or not to take the house in the event of your father predeceasing your mother based on an 18 month gap in your residency there, it is more complicated than that.

    I understand your frustration at the thought of the family home being sold but the one advantage of having money when going into care is that it enables people to have more choice rather than being put where the local authority places them. This is a generalisation obviously but has helped people move to their preferred home.

    As you said, hopefully your father will live a long life and this issue will not become a problem.

    Regards,
    Sally.
     
  6. Kat

    Kat Registered User

    Jan 24, 2005
    15
    London
    Hi Sally,

    Do you know what happens if my mother, who is receiving the nursing care, passes away first and many years later my dad is living in the house going strong - they can't force dad to move can they? How keen are they to get half of the property?

    Could I of bought Mum's property before we changed the deeds to Tenants in common, or would that be deprivation. I suppose it would.

    I can't believe there's no way around this and that people have to lose their homes. Very Unfair!!
     
  7. Sally

    Sally Registered User

    Mar 16, 2004
    114
    London
    Hi Kat,

    As long as your father lives in the house they cannot touch it and there is no way they could ask for the money later.

    You could have changed the house into your name but then you would be open to the local authority potentially taking you to court for deprivation. It's a tricky one. The key is for all parents to hand over their properties now while dementia is a far flung future possibility! I suggested this to my Mum (she is 55) and she said certainly not because my Dad's cousin was given her father's house and her dastardly boyfriend persuaded her to put it into his name and promptly sold it and took all the money when they split up. Shows what my Mum thinks of my boyfriend, how cheeky!

    Sally
     
  8. Kat

    Kat Registered User

    Jan 24, 2005
    15
    London
    Hi Sally,

    That's the worry, I don't want to end up in court because of this, it is tricky!

    I can't believe that your cousin's boyfriend did that, that's awful.

    Here's a question:
    Surely if my brother did move into my dad's house with his girlfriend & child then when dad passes away (don't mean to talk about poor dad like this) my brother will still be able to live in the house because it states, one of the rules in being able to keep the house is if there is a child under the age of 16 living in the property..? Surely that would work for a while. It just means they get to keep hold of the house for longer, I'm sure the LA will be waiting for their half and will get it eventually!
    So bloody greedy, how many billions are they making. They can at least pay for some of the care if not all.

    Best not to own a property - I wonder sometimes....

    Actually do you know a way that dad & I can withdraw money out of mum's account? My parents still have a joint account but my dad took his savings out of that and put it into his own account. The remaining money in the joint Acc was used for mum. Now because over the years we've had to buy mum various things, we are now running low on cash. She has other funds in another bank account but we can't get to this one. I was wondering if I went to see the Bank Manager with mum & dad and took the letter from the doctors explaining mum's situation - he might release some of mum's money. We need to buy her things and it's all very difficult.
    Any advice on this too...?

    Many thanks
     
  9. Sally

    Sally Registered User

    Mar 16, 2004
    114
    London
    Hi Kat,

    The guidance says that if someone lives in the property below the age of 16 that person must be someone who is 'maintained' by the resident, in other words, your Mum. I think it would be hard to argue that your mother was 'maintaining' her grandchild when she had been in residential care so long. However, the family could remain in the house because the local authority can always place a charge against the house so that when it is eventually sold they can get their money back.

    If someone has lost the ability to manage their money there are two options: if they have ever signed an enduring power of attorney then it needs to be registered; if they haven't then someone needs to apply to become their receiver through the Court of Protection : http://www.guardianship.gov.uk/ A bank ought not to let someone sign on your mother's behalf.

    Sally
    x
     
  10. Kat

    Kat Registered User

    Jan 24, 2005
    15
    London
    Thanks Sally,

    I was told by my solicitor that if you become a receiver and go to the court of protection every time you need access to mum's funds, or to sort out any other financial matter - then there is a cost each time you apply. Because my mum doesn't have loads of money, this process would chew into the little savings she does have.

    I suppose we'll just have to tackle it when it happens like everything else. I wish we saw the signs earlier and sorted out an EPA.
    Never mind.

    Thank you for your advice.
     
  11. Sally

    Sally Registered User

    Mar 16, 2004
    114
    London
    Kat,

    Sally's final thought...! The solicitor is wrong, you do not have to pay every time you need funds from your Mum's money.

    Sally.x x
     
  12. Kat

    Kat Registered User

    Jan 24, 2005
    15
    London
    Ok,

    Many thanks. I'll look into it.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.