Extreme violent behaviour

Discussion in 'ARCHIVE FORUM: Support discussions' started by kayleigh999, Apr 30, 2007.

  1. kayleigh999

    kayleigh999 Registered User

    Apr 6, 2007
    Hi All

    I wonder if anyone can help me with this. Been up half the night worrying and just dont know what to think. Mom has VaD, diagnosed 10 days ago by psychiartist (spelling!) and is on an anti-psychotic drugs for severe delusions, hallucinations and aggression. I know its really early days as she is only on half a tab at mo rising to a full 50mg this coming friday. The reason I am writing is this; had a frantic phone call from my Dad yesterday teatime that Mom had attacked him with a knife. I rushed round and there was Dad,a wound on his neck (close to the jugular) which i would say is neither superficial nor life-threatening. I was shocked. It all happened because Sunday is the only day now she attempts to cook a meal whilst Dad at the social club and apparently she had messed it up (unsuprisingly) and Dad had critisised her.

    Mom has denied it saying he picked a spot! I feel so sad and confused. She carried on the theme of why is that strange man there,pointing to Dad and asking me where he came from. She was also very angry telling him he was not having "her" TV on or touching "her" teabags etc. Whilst having her dinner she used a sharp vegtable knife and when Dad went to take her tray she threatened him with it. She had used a bread knife on his neck by the way.

    I,at the time considered calling for out of hours help but I did not in case they take her away. Was I wrong? Dad was saying she will settle soon. I feel like Dad looked like he was about to have a heart attack with stress and for the first time ever Mom said "whats wrong,why am I like this?" we have kept the diagnosis from her and told her its memory problems.

    Has anyone else experienced this and does it mean we are close to Dad (81) no longer being able to cope with her? I think I will ring the Doctor that came out originally for advice.

    My very first post on here was "Dad is abusing Mom" in that he was shoving her and stuff which he claimed was self-defence. I really was against him and blamed him for everything but now I have seen a few incidents like this I feel I judged too harshly and Mom actually is hell to live with. They have been married 59 years and previous to Moms illness nothing like that had ever happened.

    I feel like I am in a nightmare and will wake up one day soon and Mom is back to normal and some of this stress is gone from my head.

    Thanks for "listening"

    K x
  2. Natashalou

    Natashalou Registered User

    Mar 22, 2007

    how terrible for you. My mother became very violent in hospital which led in part to her now being in a nursing home. Frankly, I would seek help, and fast. If it happened again with more serious effects and results, how is everyone including your mum if she remembers, going to feel then?
  3. noelphobic

    noelphobic Registered User

    Feb 24, 2006
    Hi Kayleigh

    I'm not sure what to suggest really. I think you would be right in phoning the Doctor for advice and taking it from there. I don't know anything about the drugs prescribed for your mum. Is it possible that this behaviour could be a side effect of the drugs? That is something the Doctor will know about anyway.

    Hopefully you will get some more helpful suggestions later. I just wanted to let you know that you have my sympathy and I hope that you can sort things out. Let us know how things go.
  4. Lila13

    Lila13 Registered User

    Feb 24, 2006
    Hope you can get an emergency doctor soon.
  5. PatH

    PatH Registered User

    Feb 14, 2005
    Your post brought back so many memories for me as my situation was very similar.
    Please get the doctor qiuckly ,(1) for your mum and (2nd) for your dads safety.
  6. Skye

    Skye Registered User

    Aug 29, 2006
    SW Scotland
    Kayleigh, you really do need to get help, and fast. It sounds as if the situation is volatile, and if your mum is capable of using a knife, anything could happen.

    You need to call the GP, and ask for a CPN to visit. There are various meds that can be tried, but they do need supervision.

    I'm not talking from personal experience, but a 'friend' of John's from support group and day centre has also started attacking his wife. They had daily visits fron CPN, and he's just been admitted to emergency respite until they get him stabilised.

    Please ask for help now.

    Thinking of you,

  7. mel

    mel Registered User

    Apr 30, 2006
    Hi Kayleigh
    I hope you manage to get some support today......I can't really offer much advice but just want to say I'm really feeling for you right now
    Love Wendy xx
  8. kayleigh999

    kayleigh999 Registered User

    Apr 6, 2007
    Thank you all. I rang Mom's psychiatrist's secretary at 9am and explained things. She was meeting with him later and they will get back to me today. Just took Mom out shopping and to a cafe and because Dad is not around she was much calmer,although did not talk any sense whatsoever. I mentioned Dad and she started crying and said "dont call him Dad,he is not your Dad and it upsets me where the real one has gone" I was paying the checkout girl with tears in my eyes but trying to put on a brave face for Mom.

    It is tempting to think yesterday is a one off but I know from reading the posts its not. I almost feel disloyal phoning the doctor. How can that make sense! :confused: Anyway as I say, waiting for call. I have rung my Brothers who arn't involved in the care and only do phone calls and rare visits to ask if they thought I should ring the Doctor and they said yes. I guess I am thinking if she got sectioned I dont want the guilt on my shoulders alone.

    Let you know how I go later and thank you.

    K x
  9. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    #9 Margarita, Apr 30, 2007
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2007
    That was so like my mother , before medication any one criticizes her she pick up anything to hand , now 5 years on those system are coming back , going to have to tell my daughter not to criticizes mum , because we never know her reaction . it can became quite scary if you don’t understand what is happening , that’s one of the reason I don’t like my mother wondering into the kitchen if my daughter’s are cooking and mum trying to pick at everything , if one of them criticizes or they tone of voice , she find it disrespectful that a younger person telling her of , not understanding its for her own heath, they are telling her, she just get so confused not understand because of the disease and gets so angery pick anything up to have a go at them if I am not around . Now i am always around so I can see it coming

    We all never understood all that 5 years ago, well I never .
  10. Nebiroth

    Nebiroth Registered User

    Aug 20, 2006
    How awful for you!

    It really does sound as though you need help - and fast. Don't be afraid to keep banging on all the doors you can find until you get the help you need.

    You should emphasis the fact that you feel your Dad is in real physcial danger and that Mom has attacked him twice, inflicting injuries with a knife.

    It does sound as though Dad is, for some strange reason, acting as a trigger for the agression - or is doing something to trigger it, possibly without realising. It could be something perfectly innocent or harmless that he is doing that "pushes a button" in Mom.

    I think we all know what you mean when you say you feel disloyal. It's like informing on someone, isn;t it, when you know that they wouldn't do it themselves or even admit there was anything wrong.

    AFAIk anti-psychotic medications take a while to have full benefit, and it sounds as though Mom is on a fairly low dose anyway - you don't say that the medication is?

    If this keeps up it might even be that Mom needs to be in hospital for a while whilst they try to stabilise her. That sounds awful, but if Mom keeps attacking with knives that could lead to something much worse.
  11. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    Good idea is to get your father to write down all the challenging behaviors your mother has that he is finding hard to handle.

    Really in a perfect would they would be someone your father could sit with to give advice in what to do when those situation arises How to avoid then , how not to trigger them of , and then sadly your father may just not be able to cope , even if he wanted to as stress level can get very high, when your liveing in it and no one around in the moment it is happening .

    So you helping your father is a blessing , even if its makeing you feel guilty
  12. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    Hi Kayleigh, I`m glad you are getting some help and advice, this behaviour is too serious for you to cope with alone.
  13. jan.

    jan. Registered User

    Apr 19, 2006
    Cheshire, UK.
    Good luck today Kayleigh, I hope you get answers to your many questions. Just wanted to let you know your being thought of, and sending [[[[[[[[[BIG HUGS]]]]]]]]]

    Love Jan. X
  14. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    Part of the problem is that if the situation were reversed, that is, your father was attacking your mother with a knife, I don't think I'd hestitate in saying that calling the emergency social services number would be a matter of urgency, even if that would result in sectioning. I suppose one tends to feel that a frail smaller woman couldn't do as much damage as a man, but I know that that is cutural bias talking. I'm sorry, I know you don't want to hear this, but your mother is now a danger to someone else. As you have found, a sharp implement can do a fair amount of damage even in the hands of the weak, and whatever your father's faults, he doesn't deserve this. He must be living under intolerable strain: I don't imagine he sleeps easy either. From what you say, your mother has decided he is a replacement and is holding to that view quite consistently. I'm not trying to scare you (well perhaps I am: I do not think this can be allowed to slide) but what if she decides to attack him when he's asleep? If you do call social services and it ends up with her being sectioned this is NOT your fault. They will only section someone who is a clear and present danger to themselves or others, not on your say so. I do not think you should wait at all - not for a GP visit, not for a CPN. This is not the the time to "talk" about it, something should be done immediately. Do not allows the psychiatrist to take a "wait and see" attitude.

  15. plastic scouser

    plastic scouser Registered User

    Hi Kayleigh

    Dad had this problem in the latter stages of his dementia.

    He attacked a close family friend with a walking stick - actually broke it across the friend's back...

    When he went into care, he was sectioned after ripping handrails off the NH wall and throwing other patients belongings out of windows. According to the NH, he had to be restrained by 5 nurses - this from an 85yr old man!

    You & your Dad need help urgently. I hope you get it.
  16. kayleigh999

    kayleigh999 Registered User

    Apr 6, 2007

    Hi everyone

    Can I say a big thank you again to everyone who has replied. All the individual advice adds up to one massive helping hand and I am so apprecitive.

    The psychiatrist rang me at 6pm. Despite Mom having an appointment with him on may 10 he is coming to see her tomorrow. I do hope he can sort things out without anything drastic happening. You may have all noticed I am the worlds worst worrier!! I am thinking now Dad may not have liked that I have "told" but reading all the posts I KNOW I have done the right thing. This is better than arranging Dad's funeral and visiting Mom in god knows where, prison or institution.

    The medication she is on is amisulpride so maybe just changing that will help.

    Again thank you and I will keep you posted on the outcome.

  17. Skye

    Skye Registered User

    Aug 29, 2006
    SW Scotland
    Hi Kayleigh

    Yes, you did the right thing, so no guilt feelings.

    The fact that the consultant is coming tomorrow shows that they are taking this seriously. Well done you.

    Let's hope he comes up with a solution. Let us know.

  18. Nell

    Nell Registered User

    Aug 9, 2005
    Dear Kayleigh,
    Probably the hardest thing I ever did was to commit a very close family member to psychiatric care against his will. I will never forget or underestimate the feelings of guilt, failure, concern and downright agony I experienced. Like your situation, violence was the trigger.

    This happened many years ago now, and I can reassure you that it was the right, indeed the ONLY, thing to do. Altho' we still had hard times and everything was not immediately rosy, he DID receive the care he needed - and I could relax knowing he could not hurt anyone else. Having said that, the violence did continue in the psychiatric hospital (he was in their ICU) while the illness escalated. Later he could remember nothing of it.

    Be reassured that no matter what the outcome, and no matter what other people think, you ARE doing the RIGHT thing. It is natural for your Dad to feel that he doesn't want people to know, but it has gone too far for that now. I'm sure when things calm down, he'll understand and appreciate you did what you had to do.

    Thinking of you - stay strong!
  19. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    Kayleigh, something has occured to me. Have you ever heard of Capgras syndrome? It's when someone thinks that one or more of their relatives and friends have been replaced with exact doubles.

  20. kayleigh999

    kayleigh999 Registered User

    Apr 6, 2007
    An update to all that posted

    The psychiatrist came to see Mom today. She was having a good day moodwise although her mental abilities to listen to a conversation and know what is going on around her I feel are declining rapidly. He actually had a bed booked for Mom as a "wait and see basis" of how she was. (I know one poster adviced against letting him do that but you feel confused) Anyway, he spoke to Mom and she could not remember said incident at all but when prompted looked at Dad and again said the wound was because he had been picking spots. He asked her a few more questions that mostly she did not respond to in a appropriate way really. After a bit of umming and ahhing he changed the tablets to double the dose to see if it helps.

    He said we MUST tell him if any more incidents like this happen as we cant let this situation go now. He implored my Dad to be honest and report any and advised him when the red mist comes down to distance himself. He is also getting her to go to a day centre (of sorts) at the hospital where nurses are looking after them
    and they are monitored whilst doing activities. He said it will give Dad respite too.

    As he was leaving he spoke to myself alone. I thanked him for not sending her in and he said "Touch wood "the tablets work but if not they will be looking at that. He explained it would be to stabilise her and get the medications spot on. He also told me that his first attempt will be to sweet talk her into going in of her own free will but explained if not he would have to use his powers under the mental health act. When i asked if he meant sectioning he replied "yes,and its not a pretty sight" he added he has hope in the medication. I cant praise his demeanour and handling of Mom highly enough.

    So there I have it, a reprieve of sorts and a hope things settle down. My biggest worry now( told you I am THE worlds worst worrier:) ) is that Dad will now keeps things from me to cover up how bad she still is. I will have to cross that bridge when I come to it.

    Can I again express my real gratitute for all the individual posts that were written and the private messages also. There is no doubt whatsoever they gave me the strength to carry on and get in touch and for tonight at least my Mom does seem happier and her medication is increased to hopefully a helpful level.

    Thanks again for your time and kindness.

    K xxx All

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