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Expert Q&A: Lasting Power of Attorney (LPA) – Thursday 27 Sept, 3-4pm

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HarrietD

Administrator
Staff member
Apr 29, 2014
6,882
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London
Do you have questions about LPA, whatever stage of the process you might be at?

As you may know, power of attorney (LPA) is a legal tool that gives another adult - often a carer or family member - the legal authority to make decisions on behalf of someone with dementia, if they become unable to themselves. The person given LPA is known as an attorney. They can make decisions related to a person’s health and wellbeing, or manage their finances.

Our next expert Q&A will be hosted by Flora and Helen from our Knowledge Services team. They will be answering your questions on LPA on Thursday 27 September from 3-4pm.

Want to ask questions in advance, or don’t think you can make it? Feel free to post on this thread to be answered during the session. Or if you prefer, send your question to talkingpoint@alzheimers.org.uk and we’ll be happy to ask them on your behalf.

We hope to see you there :)
 

koj

Registered User
Apr 20, 2016
1
0
We have has the most terrible time since my mum who had dementia secretly gave POA to her friend and her husband. The husband was a very authoritative, dominant ex-police officer and mum would eventually be completely controlled by them. It's a very long story, they completely abused their powers for financial gain, even taking mum to the solicitors to change her will to completely disinherit all of her family. We did challenge the poas and mums consultant even wrote to the opg to say that these people were not suitable poas if they made an application. This was apparently received at the wrong time so it all went through without challenge. We only recently discovered much of the abuse after mums death. Could you suggest any specialist help we may be able to get or any way we can help campaign against elder abuse.
Thank you
Kristy
 

Mr Tiredout

Registered User
Apr 28, 2018
14
0
Is there reading I can do on this that is not online eg on the OPG site or here? I have both flavours of PoA registered for my 100yr old father but it is hard to see how to use them. Took me 3 appointments to open a 123 account using this and often seems better to try to sort things without it ... in the end I opened an account in joint names as otherwise I would have to show the document every time I made a change. With the health thing ... just had a torrid time with a hospital ... them failing to acknowledge dementia in my father so no proper supervison... no records ... wrong diagnosis ... telling them to deal with me because I had H&W PoA and knew the history made no difference. Perhaps I can take the H. authority to task on this? Basically, how do other people get on with it? Is there a manual?
 

Exning

Registered User
Aug 26, 2018
58
0
Interesting as so far I have had no problems with activation of finance POA.
Dealing with Scottish situation which is fundamentally the same. Bank (Clydesdale) just insisted on typical multiple confirmation of my identity and certified copy of the POA. Then very helpful through call centre got full access to phone and internet banking. Has been in honesty incredibly easy to manage and operate. Even allowed me to sign a cheque from MIL printed chequebook without any problem.
Accesed and used bank to pay traders etc without issue for last 3 years.
Might be useful to realise that using automated phone and internet banking avoids the biggest problem.....staff in banks who don't understand POA.
Have just had to transfer all finance dealings contact address from MIL to me. Without exception has been a very simple though long winded process. Yes some have asked for certified POA but all have been very helpful.
As for Welfare POA...have only just started to have to use as a result of incapacity. Will wait and see if there are issues. My only problems were in getting the incapacity confirmed as,a result of Welfare POA document clause stipulating Dr with mental health expertise doing the assessment. In remote Scottish highlands they are not always available....But that's another story.
You really shouldn't need a book. You need to just complain if the organisation fails to deal with you, if you have the correct documentation in place and you can prove who you are.
 

Bruach

New member
Sep 16, 2018
4
0
Is there reading I can do on this that is not online eg on the OPG site or here? I have both flavours of PoA registered for my 100yr old father but it is hard to see how to use them. Took me 3 appointments to open a 123 account using this and often seems better to try to sort things without it ... in the end I opened an account in joint names as otherwise I would have to show the document every time I made a change. With the health thing ... just had a torrid time with a hospital ... them failing to acknowledge dementia in my father so no proper supervison... no records ... wrong diagnosis ... telling them to deal with me because I had H&W PoA and knew the history made no difference. Perhaps I can take the H. authority to task on this? Basically, how do other people get on with it? Is there a manual?
Sorry ,no answers , but can totally sympathise with you as I have had similar problems. I found Santander[ 123] to be one of the most helpful institutions,so wish you luck with the others. NHS hospitals and GP surgeries have been especially difficult !
 

idrankthecoolaid

New member
Sep 19, 2018
2
0
My question is kind of rhetorical since my parent has now passed away. However I would be interest in the reply, and it might also be of use to others who are dealing with a loved one who has dementia.
I held an unregistered EPA for several years, and registered it a few years after my parent was diagnosed with dementia, as was advised to do so by social services (although I know I didnt actually need a second opinion, it was pretty evident that my parent was becoming very confused where money was concerned).
To cut a long story short, all was going well, till I went away for a weekend, leaving parent in the care of just the four daily carers. On my return, another family member had all but moved in, and began a very vitriolic and sustained campaign to convince my parent that I had done something wrong with regard to the management of the EPA. I considered that I had done nothing wrong, had kept every receipt for everything purchased, and purchased everything with my parents consent (difficult, since some days they had more capacity than others!), including some purchases which were, to be honest, out of character (new sofas every year for instance) , but nevertheless my parent wanted to buy these things. I checked frequently with the OPG that I was doing the correct thing. I was told "yes".
Once the other family member (who had little to do with my parent for several years beforehand) was in situ, my parent gradually became very "anti" me, and refused to go out with me to go shopping (we had great trips before, lots of fun and smiles, and were always so very close). I tried taking food round, based on my knowledge of previous purchases, but this was often refused as was new clothing and offers of trips out. In the end, I was reduced to leaving a set amount of cash with my parent each week, and received zero receipts (because both parent and other family member refused to provide any). The amount of cash I left was way more than we usually spent, the amount being set by the other family member and of course backed up by parent who seemed thoroughly under the spell of the other family member. I checked with OPG if this amount would be OK, since I wouldnt be able to complete proper paperwork for this as I wasnt getting any receipts. They said it was OK as I had noted what was happening. All bills were paid by direct debit, so the amount I left was to cover food and clothing etc. I told other family member and parent that if anything else was required, something large, then since neither parent or other family member would allow me to purchase it using the EPA, the other family member could purchase it, and I would refund the family member when I was presented with a receipt. No receipts were ever forthcoming.
In short, I believe I was manipulated into a situation where I was made out to be the bad guy, when I was actually trying to properly do my duties as attorney, in circumstances where my parent had actively said in the past that the reason i had the EPA in the first place was because they didnt want that family member to ever be in a position to medal in their financial affairs.

Once the other family member had managed to get parent to change their Will in complete favour of said family member (after visiting a doctor who gave parent the go ahead to make a will, after parent could reel out a list of figures, thus "proving" financial capacity), the family member disappeared on holiday within a week, never to see my parent again. My parent, after a day or two, seemed to come out of the "fog" of the previous few months, and was fine towards me, and we resumed our close relationship as we were before all of this happened. Parent made no mention of "give me X amount of cash", and in fact never mentioned money or pension amounts ever again, nor expressed any dissatisfaction with anything I did with regard to the EPA.

What I think happened, was that my elderly parent was coerced , and the certificate of capacity was issued by a doctor who did not know the background to the situation. My parent could remember snipets of information if they were repeated often, and was certainly more alert when agitated. I believe the other relative agitated my parent with repeated accusations (the cleaner and carers said that I was always being discussed in a bad light by the other family member when I was not present) and that parent was also being constantly schooled as to the amount of pension / pension credit etc that they received. I actually tested this theory out on my parent after all this happened, and they didnt have a clue how much money they were in receipt of!

Upon discovery of the new Will, parent then made another Will (without my help or attendance) which actually more or less mirrored the original long standing Will.

Meanwhile I was vilified on social media by the family member, then people who didnt even know me started joining in, and I was accused of all sorts including plundering parents bank account to fund my business (untrue), having something to do with my parents death... they suggested that the police should be involved with regard to parents death and that a crime pay have been committed (untrue, of course) and other vile and horrible things.

The point of this long post is that the OPG does not have the capacity to investigate other people, only the attorney (and I had done nothing wrong). However, the other family member had set up direct debits (using online services) on my parents bank account, had managed to get the bank to send them five years worth of my parents statements, had allowed quite a large sum of money each week to be used "somehow" without giving me any receipts, whilst I later found out that my parent had been begging a neighbour for food (parent lost several stones in weight over this awful period, so it is possible that they were left short of food and other basics). I believe my parent was starved, and left short of money (god knows where the money went!) and was coerced into thinking it was my fault.

The law needs to be tightened up somehow to protect the donor from unscrupulous people ** and its not always the attorneys who are the unscrupulous ones! ***
It cost me over £3k of my own money to engage solicitors to stop the other family member from undermining the EPA. In the end, the police and social services were involved and the other family member ended up in prison due to a different reason - but no one listened to me when all of this was going on because my parent, who was diagnosed with dementia, was adamant that I was the bad guy. Various services need to be made more aware of this because, as I have read on here loads of times, ours is not the only case where this type of thing has happened. They only listened when the family member had left the scene, in the knowledge that they had the will sewn up to their benefit. No one cared beforehand, that my parent had little to eat, wore the same half dozen pairs of what were meant to be disposable underwear for over half a year, lost so much weight that their trousers were being held up by safety pins....they only cared when the parent had gotten out of the fog of being convinced that things were different from what they actually were.

I apologise for the lengthy message, which obviously contains more info than you need in order to answer the question, but as you can see, years after my parents death, this still breaks my heart.

What can be done to stop this happening to other EPA / LPA holders who are just trying to do the right thing? It seems like the attorneys should have some means of being able to complain when they are being thwarted in doing their duties, because at the moment, it seems only non attorneys have that right.
 

Whisperer

Registered User
Mar 27, 2017
299
0
Southern England
I hold both types of LPA in respect of my mother who is in the early stages of Vascular Dementia. My mother is becoming more confused as time passes but with my help and support financial matters can be got through. I live with mum and care for her without outside help at this time. I guess mum is in the relatively early stages of her dementia path. I have two questions.
A) I want to hold off using the LPAs for as long as possible. My mum does not recognise herself as having any problems and advice I have received is allow her the belief she is in charge of her affairs for as long as possible to aid her well being. Dementia and capacity are not straightforwardbed fellows. Is it ultimately me who has to decide when the LPAs are actioned? They are registered and have no conditions on them, mum effectively trusting me to use them when should a time come it is required. I am in no rush to do so in fact part of me dreads that day coming. I fully understand my duties once I take direct charge of financial matters. I will always act in her best interests having gone into part time work to care for her more adequately. I just want to get matters right. Uncertainty seems my new companion in life in the caring role. Please can you guide me here?
B) Do both LPAs have to be acted on at the same time. I think the financial one might be needed before the health one as I will be doing all of the caring until we reach the point I will have to seek out some external help.
 

firevixen 121

New member
May 1, 2018
7
0
I hold both types of LPA in respect of my mother who is in the early stages of Vascular Dementia. My mother is becoming more confused as time passes but with my help and support financial matters can be got through. I live with mum and care for her without outside help at this time. I guess mum is in the relatively early stages of her dementia path. I have two questions.
A) I want to hold off using the LPAs for as long as possible. My mum does not recognise herself as having any problems and advice I have received is allow her the belief she is in charge of her affairs for as long as possible to aid her well being. Dementia and capacity are not straightforwardbed fellows. Is it ultimately me who has to decide when the LPAs are actioned? They are registered and have no conditions on them, mum effectively trusting me to use them when should a time come it is required. I am in no rush to do so in fact part of me dreads that day coming. I fully understand my duties once I take direct charge of financial matters. I will always act in her best interests having gone into part time work to care for her more adequately. I just want to get matters right. Uncertainty seems my new companion in life in the caring role. Please can you guide me here?
B) Do both LPAs have to be acted on at the same time. I think the financial one might be needed before the health one as I will be doing all of the caring until we reach the point I will have to seek out some external help.
I hold both types of LPA in respect of my mother who is in the early stages of Vascular Dementia. My mother is becoming more confused as time passes but with my help and support financial matters can be got through. I live with mum and care for her without outside help at this time. I guess mum is in the relatively early stages of her dementia path. I have two questions.
A) I want to hold off using the LPAs for as long as possible. My mum does not recognise herself as having any problems and advice I have received is allow her the belief she is in charge of her affairs for as long as possible to aid her well being. Dementia and capacity are not straightforwardbed fellows. Is it ultimately me who has to decide when the LPAs are actioned? They are registered and have no conditions on them, mum effectively trusting me to use them when should a time come it is required. I am in no rush to do so in fact part of me dreads that day coming. I fully understand my duties once I take direct charge of financial matters. I will always act in her best interests having gone into part time work to care for her more adequately. I just want to get matters right. Uncertainty seems my new companion in life in the caring role. Please can you guide me here?
B) Do both LPAs have to be acted on at the same time. I think the financial one might be needed before the health one as I will be doing all of the caring until we reach the point I will have to seek out some external help.
 

firevixen 121

New member
May 1, 2018
7
0
As soon as my partner lost mental capacity I had both LPA signed by my Solicitor at the same time as I had to deal with the financial side i.e dealing with cancelling his mobile phone his Skysports etc etc and had to send copies of Finacial to these companies some wanted health and welfare as well. So I feel its as well to have them by signed off together then you have them when needed and you will need them x
 

TeamGina

New member
Sep 21, 2018
2
0
My partner suffers from Alzheimers and as it was unexpected we did not get an LPA in place in good time. Gina would not now pass a mental capacity test so would not be able to grant a POA to myself. From the information I have seen it would appear that our only option now would be to set up a deputyship, is this true or could we still get a POA in place. We would be interested in both financial and health and welfare POA. The attorney would be myself or Gina's daughter who is 25 years old.
 

Exning

Registered User
Aug 26, 2018
58
0
Hypothetical question for experts:
My Welfare POA registered and the registration doc states that I have been appointed as Attorney. The full documentation states that if I fail to act my wife can step in.
Does the Registration document have to be modified in any way as it only mentions me not the alternative if I fail to act? How is it determined that principle Attorney has failed to act?
 

Lilye

Registered User
Oct 15, 2016
25
0
Sadly we left it to late to become LPA for my Mum although my husband and myself are that for my Dad. When asked by the Doctor and Solicitor Mum answered no then five minutes after they left she said yes! Could you tell me about Deputy-ship as I have not heard about this before.
 

HarrietD

Administrator
Staff member
Apr 29, 2014
6,882
0
London
Thanks everyone for your questions and comments so far. Helen and Flora are aware of them, and they'll answer as many as they have time for on the day. In the meantime, keep your questions coming :)
 

Exning

Registered User
Aug 26, 2018
58
0
Another hypothetical question.
I have Scottish Power of Attorney. Had no problems with using in England so far as it is accepted by the relevant organisations. I was told that if there was any queries that I should refer the questioner to the Scottish Public Guardians Office who would confirm the POA status and intent. What else could I do if that problem arose. Seems perverse that inter country POA have legal effect for some European jurisdictions and there not being reciprocity between England and Scotland.
 

Exning

Registered User
Aug 26, 2018
58
0
On a roll with Questions....again hypothetical but must be relevant to some people.
Financial POA clearly gives Attorney power to act on behalf of the individual but how do you ensure organisation doesn't accept instructions from individual if they have lost capacity.
Do you have to provide copy of Welfare POA along with confirmation of incapacity to the organisations?
 

Lankymad

Registered User
May 31, 2018
18
0
Hi;
I live with mother in the house she shared (tennants in common) with my dad. She has dementia and I have POA over her financial affairs.
When dad died recently he willed me half of the house; which has not yet been registered by the solicitor/registry as they said it's complicated and better to wait until mum dies and inherit both at the same time.
However, should mum have to go into a nursing home I will need to sell this house as it's too big/expensive to run, split the proceeds between us half/half and inform the tax office for IHT purposes (if relevant).
How do I go on with my half not "registered" but with POA over mum, would I have to have my half registered first?
Thanks!
 

plectrumman

New member
Sep 24, 2018
1
0
Hi there. My question is more a point of advice, really. My mum has recently been diagnosed with dementia and we (me and my two siblings) are encouraging her to get LPA. She is generally reluctant as her dementia is presenting her with trust/delusion issues around money. On some days she seems more receptive; but then may forget she's been that way! Any advice on how (or who?) could encourage her to put the LPA in place? We believe she would currently be deemed fit to do so, as she's just had her will re-done and the solicitor was aware of the diagnosis. We have tried getting the solicitor to suggest it, but no luck as yet. Thank you.
 

Beate

Registered User
May 21, 2014
12,151
0
London
Get it all filled in, then wait for a good day to present it to her. If you wait for her to do it, you'll wait forever.
 

30 Westwood

Registered User
Feb 22, 2017
5
0
Thank you to POAs who have written of their dilemmas and awful experiences. My POA works well and I have three tips:
1. Get lots of copies of the whole POA documents, because banks etc no longer accept only the single sheet registration details.
2. Get good friends, neighbours, Alz. Soc and Princes Royal Trust visitors and GP to keep an eye on what is going on right from the beginning when all seems fine. It will be good support for you and for your loved one. Get registered with the LA and get their disabled register card. Use that and copies of the Attendance Allowance acceptance letter to prove the disability of dementia.
Cinemas, theatres, museums, galleries etc issue disability register cards (which enable a Carer to go free) and show that the quality of life is being nurtured by someone who has the documents to set up the cards.
3. Take photographs right from the start of all the good times and continue if things go awry. An album will be a useful record.
Stories in the Threads are a warning that evidence needs to be gathered that will stand up in law to prove who really loves the person depending on the care and integrity of their POAs.
 
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