1. Expert Q&A: Protecting a person with dementia from financial abuse - Weds 26 June, 3:30-4:30 pm

    Financial abuse can have serious consequences for a person with dementia. Find out how to protect a person with dementia from financial abuse.

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EPAs/data protection and crazy different rules

Discussion in 'Legal and financial issues' started by Helena, Jul 19, 2006.

  1. Helena

    Helena Registered User

    May 24, 2006
    715
    I have been told by several financial experts that theres no need to register the EPA

    yet

    Grrrrrrrrrrrrr if I hear once more "data Protection" excuses as to why they will only accept an EPA registered with Court of Protection or a letter of Authority signed by my Mother when all I am trying to do is get pensions etc paid directly into her bank account i will scream

    The Bank were quite happy to accept the EPA signed 10 years ago as are several Building Societies .........I even have letters from them saying its all quite acceptable

    I live a distance from my Mother , she will not co operate in signing anything
    refuses to recognise what a mess she has got things in and what little info I do have on things because she has ripped up /burnt/ hidden stuff is making life very difficult

    Yes I could send the EPA off to Court of Protection with a cheques for £120 and then pay for lord knows how many certified copies to be done but that takes 35 days ( dont know if thats working days cos if it is that makes it 45 days )

    so it wont be back before I am due to be abroad and my poor sister will need to cope

    Honestly If I was trying to take money out or make a claim I could understand but I am simply trying to make life easier

    Have others found this problem




    I
     
  2. Tender Face

    Tender Face Account Closed

    Mar 14, 2006
    5,379
    NW England
    Hi Helena,

    Vastly different situations in many ways - (live near enough and need to be at mum’s just about every day - she doesn’t even open post - that’s my job etc etc and if I asked mum to donate her life savings to some cause she would go along with my advice….:eek: )

    But from my own working background, I’m struggling to understand the DP issues here…. What are you asking for? To me the person who is submitting the EPA is the one PROVIDING the data??!!! And which ‘companies’ (or types of companies) are hiding behind supposed DP constraints???? The banks are the ‘big boys’ in terms of DP - if it’s good enough for them….

    Can you get your mother’s bank to help you out?

    - banks HATE processing cheque payments (cost and fraud grounds) and would much prefer to have payments directly automated into accounts so they’re on your side already. I have known exercises where some banks and BSocs have initiated programmes themselves on behalf of their customers (because it’s in their own interest of course)

    - my ‘Banking Law’ is getting well out of date, but my understanding is that the banks have the obligation to ensure that monies reach the NAMED beneficiary - even for automated transactions (yeah - like we really believe the clerks check all the millions of transactions made daily - they do have certain processes and leave the rest to ‘business risk‘)….. So in essence it doesn’t matter who is providing the numeric details (sort-code a/c stuff) to the person sending the credits (although I can see the wisdom in the practice to always TRY to obtain details from the beneficiary themselves!)

    The banks have strict controls about retaining data themselves - they should be able to help you fill in or perhaps at least ‘piece together’ missing info which your mother has destroyed… probably charge you on that one though - it might be cheaper to register the EPA?

    I’m really keen to know how you get on with this. I’ve got EPA for mum but it’s not registered with anyone - so far, between my mum being as she is and all the companies I’ve dealt with thus far being reasonable I haven’t really come across a stumbling block….. I’ve felt that at this stage the EPA, as it stands now, is primarily my armour AGAINST anyone crying ‘Data Protection’…… when, as you say, I’m only trying to simplify things - NOT defraud her or anyone else.

    Good luck!

    Karen (TF)
     
  3. Helena

    Helena Registered User

    May 24, 2006
    715
    Civil service Pension
    State Pension
    Hospital Plan

    All of them are demanding registered EPA

    Hospital Plan wont even tell me what she is covered for .......Data Protection

    Bank .........no hassle
    Barclaycard .....no hassle

    B societies ....no hassle

    All very well but its my money that will be paying the £120
    Its my money that will be paying for certified copies until i can extract the cheque book

    and never mind my time
    and all the time being accused of stealing

    Sorry but dealing with stubborn stupid unreasonable and Demetia and me do not mix I have better things to do with my time
     
  4. Amy

    Amy Registered User

    Jan 4, 2006
    3,453
    Hiya Helena,
    Seems to me that if these people won't accept the EPA without it being registered, then you have no choice. Is the £120 going to be a problem for you and your sister? Do all these things need to be done before your holiday, or can they wait till you get back?
    We have had to deal with COP as we did not have a POA; I know how frustrating it can be. The thing is it all has to be done ,and you just have to grit your teeth and wade through the financial mire. It must seem such a thankless task with your mum making accusations; but the sooner done, the sooner sorted, and you can get on with other things.
    Take care,
    Helen
     
  5. Tender Face

    Tender Face Account Closed

    Mar 14, 2006
    5,379
    NW England
    I'm afraid I have found that being a carer, even in my circumstances, can be a costly business ... things paid for personally, expecting to be reimbursed, which doesn't materialise..... loss of potential earnings...... the list goes on - and no doubt worse for many others.....

    Helena, to look at this another way, what is the worst that could happen if you DIDN'T get this 'financial aspect' sorted out right now, this minute? (For your mother, your sister and yourself????) Not suggesting I have the answers - only you can find them for your own circumstances......

    One last 'Maverick' suggestion might be worth thinking on ..... if mother's bank accounts are 'blocked' / 'flagged' so that she couldn't pay in credits (by cheque) ... which if banks have accepted EPA from you, you should be able to do....... she/payers would be FORCED to make alternative provision..... not thought that one through myself..... leave it to you!!!!! (And there could be charges involved with returned cheques in the interim.......)........

    You sound like you need that break..

    Love, Karen (TF), x
     
  6. Helena

    Helena Registered User

    May 24, 2006
    715
    I can get the money back in the end .....its there I just have to wrench the cheque book away bfrom Mother

    Its the amount of time I will be abroad thats the problem

    I wanted to get everything tied up before i went so there were no cheques coming in the post to be mislaid by mother
     
  7. noelphobic

    noelphobic Registered User

    Feb 24, 2006
    3,452
    Liverpool
    Have you asked the DWP about becoming an appointee for your mother? (I think that's the correct terminology) I think it means they will deal with you regarding your mother's state benefits and I think it is relatively easy to arrange. However, I've never actually done it so can't give in depth info but someone else may have first hand experience.
     
  8. Helena

    Helena Registered User

    May 24, 2006
    715
    They certainly will do that for attendance allowance but I understand they will still need the registered EPA

    Its the variability of who wants what that bugs me
    why cant they all be reasonable and either have every thing the same or try to help when you are trying your best to make life simpler
     
  9. noelphobic

    noelphobic Registered User

    Feb 24, 2006
    3,452
    Liverpool
    I don't think you need the registered EPA to be an appointee. Have a look at this

    http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/Workin..._in_primary_care/Sheets/467_financialTips.pdf

    if the link doesn't work then do a search on the Alzheimers website under appointee and it will bring it up.
     
  10. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    10,824
    london
    I have not been to that link , but my brother key worker wants me to be my brother appointee.

    As I have to deal with all his money, so I phone benefit office who explained it all to me, you’re not going to like this but

    They have to come out and visit me with my brother present and brother has to agree, which he will, but would your mother? (Dose not sound like it)

    I have left it to my brother CPN to organise the appointment, (as I don't really want to be his appoitee as I also have EPO for mum

    I sorted out my brother benefit to be paid in to a post office account and I keep his card and brother does not mind .

    Every time I rang benefit office I was always told that they had to talk to my brother first giving me permission to talk for him and he did.
     
  11. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    10,824
    london
    Does your mum pensions not get paid in to your mother bank?

    Can you not organise all your Mother out going to be paid by direct debit ?
     
  12. Dee

    Dee Registered User

    Mar 23, 2005
    41
    Shropshire
    Hi Helena

    Its so frustrating isnt it? I know exactly how you feel but it was made very clear to me by my mother's solicitor that if I had any reason to think that my mum could not manage her financial or legal affairs then I was obliged to register the POA.

    It sound from what you say that maybe your mum is at that stage now in which case it would probably be better for everyone if it was registered - especially your mum who sounds (from what you say) that she is not coping. I was lucky in that my mum could not hand all the responsibility over fast enough! However, my husband is currently doing the same for his father and although initially he was a bit resistant he recognises that it would be a great relief not to worry about it all.

    I would consider registering if I were you - even if it wont get sorted in the next few weeks - in the long term it may be the best option. Initally its a bit of a hassle sending the copies to everyone but once thats done its fine.

    Best wishes

    Dee
     
  13. magpie

    magpie Registered User

    Jul 21, 2006
    25
    Bradford
    Hi
    I'm in the middle of all this financial stuff too - most of my problems though have been due to Mum's state of mind rather than the Authorities. She's so 'independent' and so stubborn! The DWP were fine about making me an appointee - they did have to visit, though and I was apprehensive about that, but the guy who came was really good with Mum - I expect he was used to this sort of thing. She thought he was a very nice young man and has already forgotten him!

    The banks and building societies - as everyone else has found - have been perfectly ok, which is great because she's just about managing her cash and I don't want to deprive her of that independence but as for her savings, she hasn't got a clue.

    While I was dealing with the bank, I got one good bit of advice - we made the account that pays all Mum's standing orders into a joint account in both our names. I managed to get her to go along with this because I wasn't 'taking it away from her' but with my name on the account, the robots in the call centres have to talk to me.
    Hope this helps.

    I still agonise about when to register. There are so many ways in which it would be easier for both of us, but Mum would go ballistic, I know and accusations of robbery and deceit are so painful.
     
  14. Blue_Gremlin

    Blue_Gremlin Registered User

    Mar 15, 2006
    89
    Morecambe, UK

    That is right. Gav has just become appointee for Jean and our EPA is NOT registered. The pensions service guy just came to see Jean while we were there to assess her capabilities and then we filled in endless forms with him and in a couple of weeks all her pension post was redirected to us. Slight problem in that her pension cheques are now in gav's name so have to go through his account before getting to her but as we are paying for most thngs at the moment anyway that offsets that. We are going to get onto them about having it made direct debit but (touch wood) we have had no trouble with them at all even though the EPA is not registered.

    Hope that helps

    Blue_Gremlin
     
  15. Blue_Gremlin

    Blue_Gremlin Registered User

    Mar 15, 2006
    89
    Morecambe, UK
    We are having trouble with the bank but that is more down to my not being able to prove who I am satisfactorily. I don't drive so no driver's licence, I don't travel so no passport and I work and have no kids so no correspondence with benefits agencies or whatever - is such a pain. I am going to have to fork out x pounds on a provisional driving licence that I will never use just to prove I am me!!! :mad:

    But as far as registering the EPA goes it doesn't seem to be a problem with Barclays (at the moment).

    Blue_Gremlin
     
  16. Helena

    Helena Registered User

    May 24, 2006
    715
    Barclays are indeed excellent in dealing with EPAs IMHE

    I have official letters from Head Office too stating the EPA is acceptable

    I do have a passport so that made it easy

    Abbey and will do the same or simply put a warning on the account that any withdrawls must show passport ............i did this because currently i cant access the passbooks but i knew she had accounts with them

    She insists on wandering around with passbooks etc in her handbag so i was concerned about muggings etc
     

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