1. Expert Q&A: Benefits - Weds 23 October, 3-4pm

    Our next expert Q&A will be on the topic of benefits. It will be hosted by Lauren from our Knowledge Services team. She'll be answering your questions on Wednesday 23 October between 3-4pm.

    You can either post your question >here< or email them to us at talkingpoint@alzheimers.org.uk and we'll be happy to ask them on your behalf.

  1. Lindy50

    Lindy50 Registered User

    Dec 11, 2013
    5,302
    Cotswolds
    #1 Lindy50, Jul 6, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2015
    Good morning :)

    I wonder whether anyone can advise me on this? I have an old style Enduring Power of Attorney for mum, which was registered with the OPG in January 2014.

    Obviously this only covers financial matters. Since mum has been in hospital, several nurses have asked me whether I have Health and Welfare POA. It is my impression that if I did, it might open doors to easier communication.

    Prior to registration I was advised by a solicitor that H & W LPA wasn't worth applying for. He may have been wrong!

    I am assuming that it's too late to apply, now that mum's lack of capacity is registered under EPA. Am I right? Any advice gratefully received.

    Thanks

    Lindy xx
     
  2. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    19,039
    Male
    North Manchester
    "I am assuming that it's too late to apply, now that mum's lack of capacity is registered under EPA. Am I right?"

    The EPA was registered because you mum was considered 'to be loosing or have lost capacity', presumably this related to her capacity to fully manage her financial affairs.

    It is possible that although your mum cannot handle finances she may be able to understand the purpose of a H&W PLA and the consequences of her granting one. She only has to understand all this at the time of signing.

    Do you think she would understand?
     
  3. Lindy50

    Lindy50 Registered User

    Dec 11, 2013
    5,302
    Cotswolds
    Thanks nitram :)

    I think that on a good day she might understand. It would be very hit and miss though. Only about six months ago she told me she would trust me to find a care home for her "if it was needed". However, she has never believed it was needed so I have never been able to follow up on that.

    More recently, she has clung to her chair at home and refused to move. She can't remember falling , being ill etc on the same day it happens, and resists any sort of help.

    So I don't know....we might be lucky and get her on a good day.

    Thanks for replying, it's good to know it is possible, at least :)

    Lindy xx
     
  4. Lindy50

    Lindy50 Registered User

    Dec 11, 2013
    5,302
    Cotswolds
    Does anyone have experience of the usefulness or otherwise of H & W LPA please?

    As mum has very few assets (financially) the solicitor thought it would be a disproportionate use of what she has.....( or maybe he wasn't interested because she doesn't have money? :eek: :confused:

    Best interests decisions should be adequate, he said. Any ideas?

    Thanks again.

    Lindy xx
     
  5. Spamar

    Spamar Registered User

    Oct 5, 2013
    6,976
    Suffolk
    Only so far that DNR was not a problem and gp consults me on every move, but he might do that anyway. I feel more comfortable with the fact they have to let me know what's going on, and the decisions are mine.
     
  6. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    19,039
    Male
    North Manchester
  7. Beate

    Beate Registered User

    May 21, 2014
    11,716
    Female
    London
    I have no idea of solicitor costs but as one doesn't need one, I would draw up the LPA yourself. The most it will cost is £110 registration fee which reduces to £55 if she earns under £12,000 and to nothing if she is on certain qualifying benefits. How this could be disproportionate use is beyond me. Better safe than sorry I'd say!
     
  8. Lindy50

    Lindy50 Registered User

    Dec 11, 2013
    5,302
    Cotswolds
    Thanks all :)

    I was asked about DNR when mum was admitted last week, they accepted my view as NOK. And the GP does consult me on most things.....but LPA might prevent the possibility of the warden of mum's flats having so much influence....

    I think I'll go for it, once we have dealt with the current crisis xx
     
  9. Pete R

    Pete R Registered User

    Jul 26, 2014
    2,046
    Staffs
    My Mom was very much like that when she signed both LPA's. She wouldn't have remembered doing it if asked some few minutes later. :(

    Luckily all relatives were in agreement however I think it may not have been possible if there was any antagonism.

    At first without LPA I had tremendous problems with social workers as I attempted to get Mom some kind of reablement to try and get her back home from hospital. One SW even attempted to stop the application but luckily her boss intervened.

    Once I got the LPA back there have been no problems. I have asked for copies of Mom's medical records and the Health Authority needed the LPA for that.

    :)
     
  10. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,439
    I have to say, I'm not overly convinced you will be able to do this. I'm not saying you shouldn't try, of course, but I wouldn't rely on it. Since the EPA was registered 18 months ago, you can expect increased scrutiny of the application. Do you have someone who will be able to act as the certificate provider?

    Strictly speaking, the solicitor was correct in that when the LPAs came in, there was a lot of reassuring talk about how even without a H & W LPA everyone involved in a person's care should be consulted, but as I said at the time and subsequently, as time has gone on, the expectations of professionals you deal with have changed, hence all the questions about "do you have a H & W LPA".
     
  11. piph

    piph Registered User

    Feb 4, 2013
    1,530
    Northamptonshire
    Hi Lindy. Sorry to hear that your Mum is in hospital. I can understand your frustration if you aren't getting the information you need because you don't have H & W LPA. However, I agree that an application at this stage may come under much more scrutiny than normal.

    I can't understand why you think the warden of Mum's flat would have any influence whatsoever when it comes to your Mum's health and welfare. Simply tell all those involved that he/she is definitely NOT to be told any information regarding your Mum, or to be allowed to ask questions about her, and is NOT to be consulted about anything without your express permission. As next of kin, surely you have the right. Put it in writing to Mum's GP, and to the hospital administration, and also to the senior sister on her ward, asking for it to be included in Mum's notes.
     
  12. Jackalina

    Jackalina Registered User

    Feb 1, 2014
    8
    I have both POA's for my hubby, today he had to have dental procedure and the dentist asked if I had POA. She also mentioned a card that could be carried with you rather than carrying an A4 sheet of paper. Has anyone heard of this?
     
  13. jugglingmum

    jugglingmum Registered User

    Jan 5, 2014
    5,190
    Female
    Chester
    When mum was in hospital with pneumonia, they had arranged for her to be discharged without informing me. When I was making a fuss about it (I had arrived for a visit) they suddenly jumped when I said I had H & W LPA and I didn't think she had capacity to understand (let alone hear). Think I posted this on your main thread.

    As has been said she only has to have capacity to understand what she is signing in that moment - which is possible even if she doesn't understand what else is going on.

    I'd go for it, as some are more awkward than others about it - her GP may be very helpful in signing it.
     
  14. Lindy50

    Lindy50 Registered User

    Dec 11, 2013
    5,302
    Cotswolds
    Thanks all for your very helpful comments :)

    Jennifer, I think you're right, HW LPA is not always necessary, it's just become the norm to ask for it. Currently I seem to be making some progress just by insisting on speaking to staff and asking for answers to basic questions ;) However, it is tedious having to explain all the time why I don't have this LPA.....

    Piph, the warden might be contacted simply because she's on the premises a lot. And lives more locally than I do.....so yes, I have had to make it clear that I am NOK and am to be informed / consulted. This applies in the community though, not while mum is in hospital - there they have no idea who she is. There's also the point that I don't want to upset her because she does genuinely care about mum :)

    So.....I'll try to get HW LPA but bear in mind that if may not be possible.

    Thanks again :)

    Lindy xx
     
  15. piph

    piph Registered User

    Feb 4, 2013
    1,530
    Northamptonshire
    It will take months for the H & W LPA to come through, so, although I think it's a good idea to try for the futire, it won't be be soon enough for it to be any use at present.
     
  16. Long-Suffering

    Long-Suffering Registered User

    Jul 6, 2015
    426
    Hi Lindy,

    I am in nearly the same situation as you. I have financial and property LPA, but not health and welfare LPA for my dad. He has dementia, and I am wondering a) if it is too late to apply for H&W because of his mental condition and b) if it is worth getting as the authorities have so far given me all the information I need on his care without one. I'm going to look into this myself so I'll share anything I find out.

    LS
     
  17. Lindy50

    Lindy50 Registered User

    Dec 11, 2013
    5,302
    Cotswolds
    Thanks LS. I am also finding that doctors and other authorities are being ( as far as I know) quite open with me about their views of mum's needs. We disagree on her needs, but that's a different question.....

    I'm beginning to think that 'Does relative have H & W LPA.?' is a standard question on admission and registration forms, but that as you get further into the system, if you act for your relative, and are there, you seem to be listened to ( I hope!)

    I will be interested in your experiences.

    Thanks again :)

    Lindy xx
     
  18. Long-Suffering

    Long-Suffering Registered User

    Jul 6, 2015
    426

    Hi Lindy,

    I have been posting on the caring for a person with dementia forum and it seems like having the H&W LPA is most useful when it comes time for the decision to be made about whether to put someone in a care home or not. As I understand it, (and someone please correct me if I am wrong) if we have H&W we can decide on patient's behalf if they no longer have the ability to decide for themselves, but if we don't have H&W we have to abide by the doctors' decision. I guess in most cases the relatives would agree with the doctors, but you never know what issues might come up that might lead you to disagree.

    LS
     
  19. Long-Suffering

    Long-Suffering Registered User

    Jul 6, 2015
    426
    Just to add - What I really need to find out is if dad's capacity is still good enough for him to be able to agree legally to the H&W. I need to get it done ASAP before his condition gets any worse.

    BTW, our solicitor also told us it wasn't really necessary to get the H&W. I too now suspect that was wrong of him to say.

    LS
     
  20. Spamar

    Spamar Registered User

    Oct 5, 2013
    6,976
    Suffolk
    I got my next door neighbour to sign and OH knew what he was signing when he signed it. He would have forgotten within a few mins! So long as they know what they're doing for that split second, you're OK.
    He ate nearly a whole pack of choc digestives that day, now he has a problem eating one biscuit!
     

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