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Epa / lpa?

Lindy50

Registered User
Dec 11, 2013
5,239
Cotswolds
Good morning :)

I wonder whether anyone can advise me on this? I have an old style Enduring Power of Attorney for mum, which was registered with the OPG in January 2014.

Obviously this only covers financial matters. Since mum has been in hospital, several nurses have asked me whether I have Health and Welfare POA. It is my impression that if I did, it might open doors to easier communication.

Prior to registration I was advised by a solicitor that H & W LPA wasn't worth applying for. He may have been wrong!

I am assuming that it's too late to apply, now that mum's lack of capacity is registered under EPA. Am I right? Any advice gratefully received.

Thanks

Lindy xx
 
Last edited:

nitram

Registered User
Apr 6, 2011
20,620
North Manchester
"I am assuming that it's too late to apply, now that mum's lack of capacity is registered under EPA. Am I right?"

The EPA was registered because you mum was considered 'to be loosing or have lost capacity', presumably this related to her capacity to fully manage her financial affairs.

It is possible that although your mum cannot handle finances she may be able to understand the purpose of a H&W PLA and the consequences of her granting one. She only has to understand all this at the time of signing.

Do you think she would understand?
 

Lindy50

Registered User
Dec 11, 2013
5,239
Cotswolds
Thanks nitram :)

I think that on a good day she might understand. It would be very hit and miss though. Only about six months ago she told me she would trust me to find a care home for her "if it was needed". However, she has never believed it was needed so I have never been able to follow up on that.

More recently, she has clung to her chair at home and refused to move. She can't remember falling , being ill etc on the same day it happens, and resists any sort of help.

So I don't know....we might be lucky and get her on a good day.

Thanks for replying, it's good to know it is possible, at least :)

Lindy xx
 

Lindy50

Registered User
Dec 11, 2013
5,239
Cotswolds
Does anyone have experience of the usefulness or otherwise of H & W LPA please?

As mum has very few assets (financially) the solicitor thought it would be a disproportionate use of what she has.....( or maybe he wasn't interested because she doesn't have money? :eek: :confused:

Best interests decisions should be adequate, he said. Any ideas?

Thanks again.

Lindy xx
 

Spamar

Registered User
Oct 5, 2013
7,394
Suffolk
Only so far that DNR was not a problem and gp consults me on every move, but he might do that anyway. I feel more comfortable with the fact they have to let me know what's going on, and the decisions are mine.
 

Beate

Registered User
May 21, 2014
12,012
London
I have no idea of solicitor costs but as one doesn't need one, I would draw up the LPA yourself. The most it will cost is £110 registration fee which reduces to £55 if she earns under £12,000 and to nothing if she is on certain qualifying benefits. How this could be disproportionate use is beyond me. Better safe than sorry I'd say!
 

Lindy50

Registered User
Dec 11, 2013
5,239
Cotswolds
Thanks all :)

I was asked about DNR when mum was admitted last week, they accepted my view as NOK. And the GP does consult me on most things.....but LPA might prevent the possibility of the warden of mum's flats having so much influence....

I think I'll go for it, once we have dealt with the current crisis xx
 

Pete R

Registered User
Jul 26, 2014
2,038
Staffs
I think that on a good day she might understand. It would be very hit and miss though.
My Mom was very much like that when she signed both LPA's. She wouldn't have remembered doing it if asked some few minutes later. :(

Luckily all relatives were in agreement however I think it may not have been possible if there was any antagonism.

At first without LPA I had tremendous problems with social workers as I attempted to get Mom some kind of reablement to try and get her back home from hospital. One SW even attempted to stop the application but luckily her boss intervened.

Once I got the LPA back there have been no problems. I have asked for copies of Mom's medical records and the Health Authority needed the LPA for that.

:)
 

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,448
I have to say, I'm not overly convinced you will be able to do this. I'm not saying you shouldn't try, of course, but I wouldn't rely on it. Since the EPA was registered 18 months ago, you can expect increased scrutiny of the application. Do you have someone who will be able to act as the certificate provider?

Strictly speaking, the solicitor was correct in that when the LPAs came in, there was a lot of reassuring talk about how even without a H & W LPA everyone involved in a person's care should be consulted, but as I said at the time and subsequently, as time has gone on, the expectations of professionals you deal with have changed, hence all the questions about "do you have a H & W LPA".
 

Jackalina

Registered User
Feb 1, 2014
8
I have both POA's for my hubby, today he had to have dental procedure and the dentist asked if I had POA. She also mentioned a card that could be carried with you rather than carrying an A4 sheet of paper. Has anyone heard of this?
 

jugglingmum

Registered User
Jan 5, 2014
5,816
Chester
When mum was in hospital with pneumonia, they had arranged for her to be discharged without informing me. When I was making a fuss about it (I had arrived for a visit) they suddenly jumped when I said I had H & W LPA and I didn't think she had capacity to understand (let alone hear). Think I posted this on your main thread.

As has been said she only has to have capacity to understand what she is signing in that moment - which is possible even if she doesn't understand what else is going on.

I'd go for it, as some are more awkward than others about it - her GP may be very helpful in signing it.
 

Lindy50

Registered User
Dec 11, 2013
5,239
Cotswolds
Thanks all for your very helpful comments :)

Jennifer, I think you're right, HW LPA is not always necessary, it's just become the norm to ask for it. Currently I seem to be making some progress just by insisting on speaking to staff and asking for answers to basic questions ;) However, it is tedious having to explain all the time why I don't have this LPA.....

Piph, the warden might be contacted simply because she's on the premises a lot. And lives more locally than I do.....so yes, I have had to make it clear that I am NOK and am to be informed / consulted. This applies in the community though, not while mum is in hospital - there they have no idea who she is. There's also the point that I don't want to upset her because she does genuinely care about mum :)

So.....I'll try to get HW LPA but bear in mind that if may not be possible.

Thanks again :)

Lindy xx
 

Long-Suffering

Registered User
Jul 6, 2015
425
Good morning :)

I wonder whether anyone can advise me on this? I have an old style Enduring Power of Attorney for mum, which was registered with the OPG in January 2014.

Obviously this only covers financial matters. Since mum has been in hospital, several nurses have asked me whether I have Health and Welfare POA. It is my impression that if I did, it might open doors to easier communication.

Prior to registration I was advised by a solicitor that H & W LPA wasn't worth applying for. He may have been wrong!

I am assuming that it's too late to apply, now that mum's lack of capacity is registered under EPA. Am I right? Any advice gratefully received.

Thanks

Lindy xx
Hi Lindy,

I am in nearly the same situation as you. I have financial and property LPA, but not health and welfare LPA for my dad. He has dementia, and I am wondering a) if it is too late to apply for H&W because of his mental condition and b) if it is worth getting as the authorities have so far given me all the information I need on his care without one. I'm going to look into this myself so I'll share anything I find out.

LS
 

Lindy50

Registered User
Dec 11, 2013
5,239
Cotswolds
Hi Lindy,

I am in nearly the same situation as you. I have financial and property LPA, but not health and welfare LPA for my dad. He has dementia, and I am wondering a) if it is too late to apply for H&W because of his mental condition and b) if it is worth getting as the authorities have so far given me all the information I need on his care without one. I'm going to look into this myself so I'll share anything I find out.

LS
Thanks LS. I am also finding that doctors and other authorities are being ( as far as I know) quite open with me about their views of mum's needs. We disagree on her needs, but that's a different question.....

I'm beginning to think that 'Does relative have H & W LPA.?' is a standard question on admission and registration forms, but that as you get further into the system, if you act for your relative, and are there, you seem to be listened to ( I hope!)

I will be interested in your experiences.

Thanks again :)

Lindy xx
 

Long-Suffering

Registered User
Jul 6, 2015
425
Thanks LS. I am also finding that doctors and other authorities are being ( as far as I know) quite open with me about their views of mum's needs. We disagree on her needs, but that's a different question.....

I'm beginning to think that 'Does relative have H & W LPA.?' is a standard question on admission and registration forms, but that as you get further into the system, if you act for your relative, and are there, you seem to be listened to ( I hope!)

I will be interested in your experiences.

Thanks again :)

Lindy xx

Hi Lindy,

I have been posting on the caring for a person with dementia forum and it seems like having the H&W LPA is most useful when it comes time for the decision to be made about whether to put someone in a care home or not. As I understand it, (and someone please correct me if I am wrong) if we have H&W we can decide on patient's behalf if they no longer have the ability to decide for themselves, but if we don't have H&W we have to abide by the doctors' decision. I guess in most cases the relatives would agree with the doctors, but you never know what issues might come up that might lead you to disagree.

LS
 

Long-Suffering

Registered User
Jul 6, 2015
425
Just to add - What I really need to find out is if dad's capacity is still good enough for him to be able to agree legally to the H&W. I need to get it done ASAP before his condition gets any worse.

BTW, our solicitor also told us it wasn't really necessary to get the H&W. I too now suspect that was wrong of him to say.

LS
 

Spamar

Registered User
Oct 5, 2013
7,394
Suffolk
I got my next door neighbour to sign and OH knew what he was signing when he signed it. He would have forgotten within a few mins! So long as they know what they're doing for that split second, you're OK.
He ate nearly a whole pack of choc digestives that day, now he has a problem eating one biscuit!
 

Long-Suffering

Registered User
Jul 6, 2015
425
I got my next door neighbour to sign and OH knew what he was signing when he signed it. He would have forgotten within a few mins! So long as they know what they're doing for that split second, you're OK.
He ate nearly a whole pack of choc digestives that day, now he has a problem eating one biscuit!
Sounds like diabetes might get him before dementia does! :)

Well, I've made an appointment for the solicitor to take the H&W forms round to mum and dad to sign next Wednesday. The application fees are ok, but the solicitor's fee is about 600 quid when you add the tax! Bloody hell!

I'm now trying to work out how much mum and dad's yearly income is. I know if it is under 12,000 quid they pay half-price for the application. Trouble is mum has no clue how much money they have coming in. Dad always looked after that. I got her to look at the bank book today and look at the deposit column and the dates, but she had no clue. I've asked the solicitor to look at the bankbook himself when he goes round. For 600 quid he can at least do us that favour! The solicitor is also sending me some info and a list of other things which would qualify them for a reduction. I'll share what I learn on here.

LS
 

Spamar

Registered User
Oct 5, 2013
7,394
Suffolk
Online is only £110 per application, less for little income.
No chance of OH getting diabetes, sweet tooth ever since I've known him. Thin/skinny as well, though I know that doesn't make any difference, one of the thinnest ladies I know has diabetes. OHs problem is last stages. Not end of life as yet but, as he has vas dem as well as Alzheimer's, who knows?

Meanwhile, I'm a bit in limbo, visiting when I can, another one with an arthritis flare up over the last few days. I'm not used to that. Usually I just have arthritis!