EPA - Keeping Accounts.

Dramatist

Registered User
Sep 1, 2006
8
0
Rye, East Sussex
I am learning, the very hard way, that in spite of what various web sites and lawyers say, bank statements alone are not enough for accounts if you are asked to show them. I have EPA for mum who has Alzheimers and is in a nursing home. Her private money ran out and I applied to the Social Services for an assessment and funding. I was asked for the 'detailed account book' and when I said that there were only bank statements, they threw my case out saying that because I had been drawing cash for things but had no receipts or proof in the form of detailed accounts where the cash went, they had to assume it went to me!!!! It didn't, of course. I am a disabled wheelchair user and it went to keep mums house going for me as she had expressly wanted. it was paid to builders, gardeners etc.

At this point, some 'Jobsworth' in the SS finance dept has reported me to the Court of Protection asking for a full investigation into my handling of mother's money. Worse, he has accused me of endangering her health and safety by failing to pay fees -in spite of the fact that her Social Worker told me to stop as the SS were about to pick up the tab.

On being told that I was disabled, a 'vulnerable adult' with a severe and possibly terminal heart condition, he refused to believe it and basically inferred that I was a crook and a liar. Within a couple of days he will get letters from my GP and my Cardiologist!I have done everything in my power to keep mum's affairs correct. I employed a Financal Adviser to oversee what I did (although he seems to have done very little and charged much) and I consulted with my Solicitor from Day 1. in spite of trying to get this totally right, I am about to be dragged through the Court of Protection and all because I thought that Bank Statements were quite sufficient as 'detailed records'.

This has put me under such stress that it is hard to know who will go first- Mum from Alzheimers or me from heart failure something my Cardiologist has warned about!

Desperately,
Jonathan. :eek:
 

cragmaid

Registered User
Oct 18, 2010
7,936
0
North East England
I'm so sorry that you are having all the stress of this heaped upon you, please try and yes I know how difficult it is, but try anyway to keep yourself calm, it will all resolve in time. Maureen.
 

Bob S

Registered User
Mar 24, 2009
392
0
Welwyn Garden City
Dramatist,

Sorry to hear of what is happening to you. I too have been reported to the Offce of the Public Guardian by the social services department that deals with my father and it is appalling that public servants can make such accusations in a manner which is underhand.

No doubt the OPG have not given you the details of the complaint and who has made it. It would help if your saw the complaint and it would be worthwhile writing to the OPG to ask them if they will approach the complainant to seek permission to release the full details of the complaint that has been made. I think it is utterly wrong that you are asked questions by the OPG without knowing the precise allegations that have been made against you. If you were a criminal under arrest by the police you would be entitled to disclosure including statements, arresting officers notes before they could even interview you.


In my case it was very informative to see what had been said about me and to note the inaccuracies and downright untruths that were allowing the OPG to investigate my actions without so much as a shread of evidence provided by the local authority of any wrongdoing on my part.
 
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Nebiroth

Registered User
Aug 20, 2006
3,510
0
Utterly appalling. I can only think thatthe motivation is to allege a deprivation of assets so that the local authority can avoid paying for care fees.
 

Bob S

Registered User
Mar 24, 2009
392
0
Welwyn Garden City
Sadly it is the way more and more local authorities are behaving these days, and they know the OPG will start an investigation on hearsay and "we think" rather than relying on good old fashioned evidence.

What is shameful is that the OPG won't tell you who has complained or detail the nature of the allegations against you. Criminals in the criminal justice system get far more rights than those who fall foul of the OPG as a result of local authorities thinking they can make life difficult for people just because they can.
 

germain

Registered User
Jul 7, 2007
342
0
HI
Sorry if I'm wrong but can you not apply to OPG to release docs under Data protection rules - subject access request ?

regards
germain
 

Katrine

Registered User
Jan 20, 2011
2,837
0
England
Simple accounts

Could I suggest that, if possible, you work up a simple spreadsheet or list of the things that this housekeeping cash has been spent on? For example, gardener etc. You might not be able to be extremely accurate, but I don't see why a restrospective budget could not be knocked up to show the sorts of regular payments that you make. If these are regular small cash payments you could list the people that get paid, and their contact details.

These two things, simple retrospective budget, and list of regular payees, will be useful evidence when you hear from the COP about this issue. Of course it is not a detailed account book, but if you were advised that bank statements were sufficient then you can also provide the name of the professional person who advised you as part of your evidence.

SS are bullying you, and I am so sorry that you have this appalling stress to deal with. Yes, it is about them trying to claim deprivation of assets. How despicable to treat you, a vulnerable adult, in this manner.
 

Bob S

Registered User
Mar 24, 2009
392
0
Welwyn Garden City
HI
Sorry if I'm wrong but can you not apply to OPG to release docs under Data protection rules - subject access request ?

regards
germain

Germain,

You can apply but the OPG will write back and state that they will be breaching the Data Protection Act by revealing who the complainant is and that their investigation would be hindered by releasing the details of the complaint. It's total nonsense of course but that is the way they work- with no regard whatsoever for the rights of genuine people who are on the receiving end of malicious complaints.

That is why I suggested to the OP that he should ask the OPG to seek permission from the complainant to release the details of who they are and the full extent of the allegations made.

Failing that it may be necessary to make an application under section 35 of the Data Protection Act.
 
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Jancis

Registered User
Jun 30, 2010
2,567
0
70
Hampshire
Unnecessary complications

Why have so many lives become so unnecessarily complicated because of the data protection act? I could write a very dull and boring book about the number of times this crops up in my day to day life.

This Act and the Mental Capacity Act 2005 have been the bane of my life in the past 2 years. Sorry Jonathan, I don't wish to hijack your thread; it does sounds like you've had some good advice here.

I really feel for you with your health problems (my husband has been very ill due to heart disease) - any kind of anxiety is bad but this kind is the last thing you need.
Best wishes,
Jancis
 

Bob S

Registered User
Mar 24, 2009
392
0
Welwyn Garden City
The principle of the Data Protection Act is sound, but common sense has been ditched by many organisations when dealing with everyday situations, despite the Information Commissioner saying that common sense should be used when dealing with third parties making enquiries on behalf of family members for legitimate reasons.

The OPG on the other hand have taken it to a sinister level by their refusal to reveal who the complainant is and the full details of the allegation. I don't see how a person can properly answer questions put by the OPG when an investigation is started if they don't know who has complained and the full details of the allegation.

As I said before. Jonathan could ask the OPG to approach the complainant to see if they will give permission to reveal who they are and to provide him with full details of the allegations. This is something they did in my current case.

But I still think it is wrong that the OPG won't reveal who is your accuser and those under the spotlight have to push hard to obtain information that they should be given from the outset. This wouldn't happen in a criminal allegation as you are entitled to know who has made allegations against you, so why do the OPG think they can get away with this approach, especially when the complainant is a public body?
 
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