• All threads and posts regarding Coronavirus COVID-19 can be found in our area specifically for Coronavirus COVID-19 discussion.

    You can directly access this area >here<.

End of Life Advice

Banjomansmate

Registered User
Jan 13, 2019
4,083
0
Dorset
One good reason for having an Advance Directive in place at your GP Surgery and copies with your family so that everyone knows what you do or don’t want to happen should the occasion arise.
 

15moterbike

Registered User
Jan 17, 2022
131
0
Many thanks @silkiest , I totally agree. Doctors seem to be very guarded when discussing end of life treatment when all the relatives want is for their loved one to be put out of their misery, especially in dementia situations. It's not as if there is a possibility they will recover! There is a morphine pump at the nursing home with mum's name on it, it's been sitting there for 8 months! Why prolong their suffering?
Agree there is no dignity when someone is bedridden chocking on the small amount of food they eat doubly incontinent can't communicate etc etc . Its living hell
 

CAL Y

Registered User
Jul 17, 2021
305
0
I agree about not prolonging life, but there are many people who do not feel like this, desperately want to hold on to their loved one and see any attempt towithhold treatment as tantamount to murder. The fact that there have been some high profile cases of doctors being convicted of killing their elderly patients hasnt helped this perception. Many doctors are wary of being sued as well, so even if their inclination is not to treat they feel they have to tread carefully
 

CAL Y

Registered User
Jul 17, 2021
305
0
@canary . I can see that some people wouldn’t agree with what many of us have posted on this thread but here’s a little story.
It isn’t just people at the end of life who are affected by some of the strict rules that doctors have to follow nowadays.
A few years ago, I spent several hours, on the floor and unable to move due to a slipped disc.
When my GP finally arrived he issued a prescription.
I said to him that I thought he might be able to give me a morphine injection or something similar.
His reply was. We are not allowed to carry it any more and you have “our friend “ Doctor Shipman to thank for that.
 

Sheelagh7

Registered User
Feb 25, 2022
60
0
I agree about not prolonging life, but there are many people who do not feel like this, desperately want to hold on to their loved one and see any attempt to withhold treatment as tantamount to murder. The fact that there have been some high profile cases of doctors being convicted of killing their elderly patients hasnt helped this perception. Many doctors are wary of being sued as well, so even if their inclination is not to treat they feel they have to tread carefully.
I understand that argument and I would probably feel the same way if mum was much younger and had another illness where there was a chance of recovery, even if that was slim. However, when dealing with a very elderly person with dementia, in a lot of respects the person has already gone just leaving their shell.

I emailed mum's GP thanking him for spending the time to discuss the situation, confirmed that both my brother & myself were on board with the revised treatment plan, and if there was anything else he could do to ease mum's suffering we would appreciate it. It will be interesting to see if there is any change in mum with the stronger morphine patches when we next visit her.
 

Duggies-girl

Registered User
Sep 6, 2017
3,295
0
I am in two minds @CAL Y My dad had antibiotics and blood transfusions when he had pneumonia and they saved his life and he lived another year which we were grateful for. I could not have refused treatment for him, it would have been wrong in his case. A year later he was so wracked with cancer that I prayed he would just die but he wouldn't because he didn't want to, he wanted to live. Of course he did eventually die and I suppose you could say it was a good death because he died at home, in his bed, painlessly with me holding his hand.

My brother wanted to refuse all treatments for dad as soon as we found out that he had cancer but I said no and I was right because dad got another year of good quality life (until the last couple of weeks) and he was very happy.

I don't think that life should be prolonged at any cost but I am uneasy with the right to refuse treatment for another person. Dad's mind hadn't gone and he was still capable of choosing his own treatment and he always said to listen to the doctor so I did.
 

15moterbike

Registered User
Jan 17, 2022
131
0
When someone can enjoy some quality of life fair enough but when someone has none and is just existing as in my circumstances as well there is not one minute of qol its the cruelest thing ever
 

15moterbike

Registered User
Jan 17, 2022
131
0
No nothing yet, since I met the GP at the nursing home 2 weeks ago.
We are visiting mum again this afternoon so it will be interesting to see if the higher dose of morphine is making a difference.
I hope so visited my mum Saturday wasn’t pleasant she was very distressed and the staff seem to be on a challenge to see who can get the most fluid down her whilst she is very chesty , so cruel
 

Sheelagh7

Registered User
Feb 25, 2022
60
0
I hope so visited my mum Saturday wasn’t pleasant she was very distressed and the staff seem to be on a challenge to see who can get the most fluid down her whilst she is very chesty , so cruel
Oh I am so sorry, that's awful to witness ;-(
 

Sheelagh7

Registered User
Feb 25, 2022
60
0
Mum was a bit chesty yesterday, she didn't really wake up while we were visiting, although she did hold my hand. The carer managed to get a few mouthfuls of soup down her, again she didn't wake up but felt the spoon on her lips and took the soup. I had a quick look at her feet before I left and the gangrene looks to have spread to her other foot now. I'm not sure if mum was just having a bad day or whether the increased strength of the morphine patches is making a difference. We were told mum had been sitting downstairs the previous day (mother's day) but my brother & I couldn't imagine how that could possibly be as she can't even hold her head up, let alone sit up in a chair. I am sure they must have confused her with another inmate, sorry resident!
Still waiting for a call back from the LA to discuss mum's situation ...
 

15moterbike

Registered User
Jan 17, 2022
131
0
Mum was a bit chesty yesterday, she didn't really wake up while we were visiting, although she did hold my hand. The carer managed to get a few mouthfuls of soup down her, again she didn't wake up but felt the spoon on her lips and took the soup. I had a quick look at her feet before I left and the gangrene looks to have spread to her other foot now. I'm not sure if mum was just having a bad day or whether the increased strength of the morphine patches is making a difference. We were told mum had been sitting downstairs the previous day (mother's day) but my brother & I couldn't imagine how that could possibly be as she can't even hold her head up, let alone sit up in a chair. I am sure they must have confused her with another inmate, sorry resident!
Still waiting for a call back from the LA to discuss mum's situation ...
Has she got a care record In her room it should have said in their if she has sat out . Someone told us the same thing once mum had been sat out we knew it was wrong . She must be in so much pain with her feet
 

Sheelagh7

Registered User
Feb 25, 2022
60
0
I've still not had any response from the GP's surgery to my queries, think that's nearly 3 weeks now.

I did, however, get a call back from the county adult social services department following my contact request form two weeks ago. She is going to liaise with the county social workers to discuss mum's funding situation but suspects the county will bounce it back to the city as their responsibility, which is what I suspect was going to happen. I'm hoping that they might actually talk to each other to sort this temporary funding situation out but I'm not holding my breath!

It's nearly two weeks since I have seen mum as the nursing home is in covid lockdown again so I'm not sure if the double strength morphine patches are making a difference to mum's pain levels with her gangrene feet. Our next visit is scheduled for Monday so hopefully I won't receive another call cancelling it!
 

Sheelagh7

Registered User
Feb 25, 2022
60
0
We've now seen mum twice since the home was in covid lockdown and she really isn't responsive any more so I am confident that the higher dosage of morphine patches are working and hopefully keeping the pain from her gangrene feet at bay. A carer came to feed mum while we were there yesterday and she managed to get mum to have 2 or 3 sips of soup but after that mum put her hands to her mouth to block the carer getting the spoon anywhere near her mouth. Mum no longer opens her eyes and according to the chart she has lost another 2.4kg, so mum is now about 7 stone which shows as she is tall, there's more meat on a skeleton! She was also given her 4th covid vaccine yesterday too, we don't really see the point in mum having it as she is very isolated at the end of a corridor but I wasn't quick enough to say no when I was called from the home about it, so left it up to the GP to decide whether to administer it.
There's still no response from the GP surgery to my queries regarding end of life status vs palliative stable. Hey ho, not sure I have enough strength to continue fighting that one...
I hope everyone else is hanging in there with their situation, try to keep smiling :)
 

Grannie G

Volunteer Moderator
Apr 3, 2006
76,074
0
Kent
we don't really see the point in mum having it as she is very isolated at the end of a corridor

Your mum is still being attended to by carers which is probably why the GP thought it better for her to have a fourth vaccination.
 

Sheelagh7

Registered User
Feb 25, 2022
60
0
Your mum is still being attended to by carers which is probably why the GP thought it better for her to have a fourth vaccination.
Very true Sylvia. I was thinking of it more from the prospective of mum being distressed by having the injection as there's no muscle left on her as she's been bed bound for 9 months now and has lost a lot of weight in that time (over 3 stone). :)
 

GillP

Registered User
Aug 11, 2021
1,450
0
We've now seen mum twice since the home was in covid lockdown and she really isn't responsive any more so I am confident that the higher dosage of morphine patches are working and hopefully keeping the pain from her gangrene feet at bay. A carer came to feed mum while we were there yesterday and she managed to get mum to have 2 or 3 sips of soup but after that mum put her hands to her mouth to block the carer getting the spoon anywhere near her mouth. Mum no longer opens her eyes and according to the chart she has lost another 2.4kg, so mum is now about 7 stone which shows as she is tall, there's more meat on a skeleton! She was also given her 4th covid vaccine yesterday too, we don't really see the point in mum having it as she is very isolated at the end of a corridor but I wasn't quick enough to say no when I was called from the home about it, so left it up to the GP to decide whether to administer it.
There's still no response from the GP surgery to my queries regarding end of life status vs palliative stable. Hey ho, not sure I have enough strength to continue fighting that one...
I hope everyone else is hanging in there with their situation, try to keep smiling :)
so sorry to read this. You are having an incredibly difficult time seeing your Mum like this. And selflessly you remind others to try to keep smiling!

I hope that you are managing to look after yourself. You are very much in my thoughts and prayers. Take good care x