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Emotional abuse of a vunerable adult? yes or no?

Jessbow

Registered User
Mar 1, 2013
3,078
West Hertfordshire
NO DEMENTIA INVOLVED- just cant think of anywhere else to ask.

My bro ( 52) has had a stroke. I only found out because a cousin texted sympathy.
Apparently my cousin received a email tell of this stroke, with explicit ''do not tell Jess''

There is no major fallout between bro and I
Sister in law and I really don't gel, never have done following a fall out she and my father had, which has just raised its ugly head again as my late fathers executor.

Being courteous, we rang the ward ( we think 10 days after this stroke- we are really not sure when it happened) and asked to speak to bro. he came on the phone, and said she wouldn't be happy if we visited.


After discussion with bro and with ward staff, they agreed to facilitate an out of hours visit. He was genuinely happy to see us and the visit went well.

Wifey arrives at visiting time.....blows her stack!

We rang a couple of days later and staff nurse informed us that she'd h to speak to his wife
From there on in ( a further 4 weeks) bro has refused to even speak to us on the phone.

Getting too long winded so will bullet point!

He doesn't have his mobile phone- its lost ( she told him, yet if you ring it she answers- have tried from a random number she doesn't know)
He doesn't have his laptop.

probably most worrying is a comment she has made on Fbook ( again, not easy for us to see, looking via a friend. ''After 23 years of me praying T has finally taken Jesus into his heart'' ( she Is a vocal modern christian *Polite term* ) he always said he just let her get on with it.

we dont have much in the way of mutual friends, one has mentioned to my OH, ''do you know about the emails?'' Not sure what *emails* are being refered to here. I have only send s-in-law one, which basically said its time to get over it and move on for brothers sake, (a letter that I would be more than happy for anyone to read, nothing nasty whatsoever)


Where do we go from here?
Does anyone else hear alarm bells or am I over reacting? Be honest please

Edit:
he held down a full time job until he had the stroke
its left him In a wheelchair with little in the way of sight.(tunnel vision)
 
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Grannie G

Volunteer Moderator
Apr 3, 2006
71,810
Kent
It`s unwise for outsiders to get involved in family disputes.

Your sister in law is next of kin and I presume the marriage was good enough for your brother to stay with her so don`t really know how anyone outside the family can advise.
 

Cat27

Volunteer Moderator
Feb 27, 2015
11,603
Merseyside
I don't really see how your brother is vulnerable. Hen pecked maybe.

Your brother & his wife have been together a long time & if he's been happy to stay with her then it's none of your business really.
How would you feel if someone did what you're doing to you & your OH?
 

2jays

Registered User
Jun 4, 2010
11,598
West Midlands
I can understand you wanting contact with your brother.

I cannot understand why your sister in law will not allow it, especially as he has been so ill. but that's probably because I don't know, nor should I know, The full history between you two

I'm just so sad for you that you are unable to speak to your brother, but I don't think there is much you can do about it at the moment. I can only think that to keep in contact as such, is through people who are in contact with your sister in law, as you have been doing.

xxxxxxx


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meme

Registered User
Aug 29, 2011
1,953
London
I would continue to keep some form of contact with your brother...just to keep an eye on things if that is what you want?? His wife sounds very controlling and over zealous but as has been said your brother stayed with her...although now he physically cant leave can he?? In answer to your question no, not abuse of vulnerable adult from what you"ve told us...
 
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Katrine

Registered User
Jan 20, 2011
2,837
England
IMO your brother is vulnerable, and his wife appears to be overly controlling. Whether this is to protect him from you, or to isolate him from you, I couldn't say. :eek:

Your cousin informed you that your brother was in hospital, against email instructions not to tell you. The email must have been sent by SIL since your brother doesn't have his phone or laptop. Your cousin obviously thought your brother had a right to make up his own mind. Perhaps your cousin knows more about what is going on, including these emails.

If it was me I would be very concerned about there being email traffic about me that was damaging family relationships. SIL has effectively isolated you, but it does not seem as if all members of the family are excluded. This does seem particularly personal, presumably to do with your father's estate.
Where there's a Will there's a war. :(

I don't know whether you can force the issue, but I think your brother already knows that you care about him. I would write him a short note saying you respect his wish for privacy. You love him, and you will welcome renewed contact when he feels ready.
 

sleepless

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
3,223
The Sweet North
"I would write him a short note saying you respect his wish for privacy. You love him, and you will welcome renewed contact when he feels ready. "

I think Katrine's idea above is an excellent one.
 

Suzanna1969

Registered User
Mar 28, 2015
346
Essex
Well she sounds like a right piece of work! :mad:

The thought of someone - anyone - trying to alienate my lovely Bruv from me makes my wee wee boil! (even though he drives me nuts sometimes) We are very close, despite being polar opposites. If it was me then I'd probably storm the hospital and smack her in the face!

*** BUT DON'T DO THAT!!!! ***

Alas the above posters are right, not a lot you can do. Sending conciliatory messages about respecting privacy is probably the best tactic. Keep the lines of communication open.

Chances are that, further down the line, she might find that caring for him is more than she can manage alone and she will be glad (begrudgingly) for some help, even if it is from one of Satan's Minions (you, obviously!!!)

Not for the first time I find myself thanking whatever deity might be listening that I am single!
 

Lawson58

Registered User
Aug 1, 2014
2,164
Victoria, Australia
We have obviously only heard your side of the story so it is quite impossible for us to judge with any degree of accuracy so the best any of us can do is to have an opinion.

I think if someone had tried to sneak in to see my husband that I would have been extremely annoyed and and am not at all surprised by her negative and hostile reaction.

If your brother is refusing to speak to you, then perhaps he is expressing where his loyalties lie, with his wife.

And just maybe you are being a little precious in expecting your brother to choose between you and his wife because from what you say, your actions are being a more than a little divisive at a time when compromise and cooperation would be more help to your brother. You should not let your poor relationship with your SIL impair your brother's welfare.
 

Katrine

Registered User
Jan 20, 2011
2,837
England
I think if someone had tried to sneak in to see my husband that I would have been extremely annoyed and and am not at all surprised by her negative and hostile reaction. If your brother is refusing to speak to you, then perhaps he is expressing where his loyalties lie, with his wife.

And just maybe you are being a little precious in expecting your brother to choose between you and his wife because from what you say, your actions are being a more than a little divisive at a time when compromise and cooperation would be more help to your brother. You should not let your poor relationship with your SIL impair your brother's welfare.
Crikey! :eek:

Jess isn't a secret girlfriend or an ex-wife, or a nosy neighbour. She is his sister. Why should a sister wanting to visit her brother be seen as 'sneaking in'? I'm not at all keen on my SIL but if OH was in hospital I would not dream of trying to stop her visiting. In fact, I wouldn't be able to. She would storm the barricades. :D

Jess doesn't appear to want to cause trouble between the couple. I don't agree that her actions have been divisive. Jess hasn't asked her brother to choose between them. It's her SIL who has forbidden her husband from having contact with Jess, and he's unwilling to defy his wife.

If I were Jess I also would have ignored SIL as the gatekeeper, provided that medical staff were happy to facilitate a first visit. I don't see why a wife should have the right to obstruct a grown man of 52 from seeing his close family. :(

I agree that, given the strong feelings expressed, Jess now has to back off. To persist in direct contact with him at present would be going against HIS expressed wishes.
 

garnuft

Registered User
Sep 7, 2012
6,585
Families eh?!

My OH received a phone call from his Aunt on the day her husband died ( his father's only sibling ) to say his uncle had died and not to inform their only child, OH's only cousin, of his fathers death.

He and his cousin are in close contact though separated by 100s miles.

It tore him apart not to tell his cousin.
Son and mother had fallen out 30 years ago over his choice of bride, a lovely girl and four grandchildren were lost to her due to her bitterness and bile.

But he didn't tell his cousin, he felt it would be intruding in their relationship.

If I were you Jess, I would do as suggested.... Write a note, telling your brother you're here if he needs you and apologising for causing any upset.

Then I would back off and leave a long married couple to their own dynamics.


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Katrine

Registered User
Jan 20, 2011
2,837
England
When my dad died I rang my half-sister J. She grew up in a different family but had met him as an adult and had been in contact in more recent years. My mum hadn't told me not to ring her because it just never occurred to her that I would. "She was adopted, so she is NOT his daughter" was always the mantra. :(
My mum's plan was to send J a letter at some later date, when the funeral was out of the way and she wouldn't need to make contact again. :rolleyes:

I didn't set out to cause trouble, with the best of intentions I thought J would want to know that our dad had died and would be very hurt if she found out at a later date. My mum was barely speaking to me at that time so I didn't know that the funeral was to be strictly close family and by invitation only. I suppose I'm lucky I got invited, in the circumstances. :eek:

Naturally J then rang my mum to offer her condolences and to ask about the funeral. My mum was not pleased. She kept telling J how she wasn't my dad's daughter because she had been legally adopted by her stepfather. J said our dad was still her biological father and she was entitled to think of him as her father if she wanted to; it really wasn't my mum's call to insist on a different script. My mum said grudgingly that she supposed J could come to the funeral if she wanted to, but she would have to come on her own and not bring her children because my mum didn't want strangers there. As you can imagine, J decided not to come.

As you say, Gwen, families, eh?! :rolleyes: It's so sad when one person's feelings in a family are permitted to dominate those of everyone else.
 

Jessbow

Registered User
Mar 1, 2013
3,078
West Hertfordshire
I don't really see how your brother is vulnerable. Hen pecked maybe.

Your brother & his wife have been together a long time & if he's been happy to stay with her then it's none of your business really.
How would you feel if someone did what you're doing to you & your OH?
He is vunerable, because he is going to be almost totally dependant, with limited vision. He'll have to do as she says, or she'll flip out.

I would never ever come between my OH and his brother. AND whatever i thought of his brother I would have the grace to allow my OH to have him visit if that is what he wanted, especially if my OH and he arranged it for when I wasn't there, if we didn't get on
 
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Jessbow

Registered User
Mar 1, 2013
3,078
West Hertfordshire
I would continue to keep some form of contact with your brother...just to keep an eye on things if that is what you want?? His wife sounds very controlling and over zealous but as has been said your brother stayed with her...although now he physically cant leave can he?? In answer to your question no, not abuse of vulnerable adult from what you"ve told us...

Yes that is all I want, just to know he is okay.No he cant even stand long enough to pee at the moment, so to get himself out would be next to impossible
 

Jessbow

Registered User
Mar 1, 2013
3,078
West Hertfordshire
I can understand you wanting contact with your brother.

I cannot understand why your sister in law will not allow it, especially as he has been so ill. but that's probably because I don't know, nor should I know, The full history between you two

I'm just so sad for you that you are unable to speak to your brother, but I don't think there is much you can do about it at the moment. I can only think that to keep in contact as such, is through people who are in contact with your sister in law, as you have been doing.

xxxxxxx


Sent from my iPhone using Talking Point
Whatever the history, its never been between my bro and I. SHE stole money from my father.
We really don't know anyone who will tell us anything

I have no desire to come between man and wife, but feel that he has a voice and should be allowed to express what he wants, without fear of repercussions from his wife!

Example: My neice and nephew have monies outstanding, willed from my now late parents. He is happy for me to invest it for them, she wants it in her name. Until they are of an age to receive it ( 21)
Her response, when he went home and said that I would invest it until they were of an age to receive it, she upped, stomped out and went to stay with a friend for 24 hours because she didnt get her way
 
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Katrine

Registered User
Jan 20, 2011
2,837
England
Your SIL is Mrs. EgoTheSizeOfAPlanet. So is mine. Unfortunately, most families have one of those. I am sorry to hear that yours is so greedy and not to be trusted with her children's inheritance. You are protecting their grandfather's gift to them and removing the temptation from SIL to 'borrow it'. You know you did the right thing. At least she didn't kick your brother out of the house as a punishment for your decision! I expect being deprived of her company for 24 hours was thought to be punishment enough. :rolleyes:
 

garnuft

Registered User
Sep 7, 2012
6,585
I hate to say it but if you have issues with his wife ....you have issues with your brother.

You might not like how she is, how she goes on.

But it's not your choice.

Were they unhappy prior to the stroke?

If not....


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2jays

Registered User
Jun 4, 2010
11,598
West Midlands
You are all in a no win situation

And I don't mean you are aiming to win anything.... I just mean, as I see it, this situation isn't going to get resolved in any way

Something that must be so hard for you to cope with and deal with

But sadly for you, this is how it is.... I don't think there is anything you can do to change it.

I hear your frustration and sadness and anger xx
















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Lawson58

Registered User
Aug 1, 2014
2,164
Victoria, Australia
No matter what the history is between Jess and her brother and SIL, the brother was still with his wife at age 52 and that was HIS choice at that time. You may not like the way she behaves, her way of doing things but he stayed with her. And that decision should be respected by other family members.

Perhaps SIL is rude and abrasive but that doesn't excuse bad manners on the part of others. And to visit when you KNOW that you weren't wanted was looking for trouble, was bad manners and was divisive. Poor old brother sounds like he is sick of the bickering and needs some peace and being caught in the middle of you two doesn't sound too great for his health.
 

Jessbow

Registered User
Mar 1, 2013
3,078
West Hertfordshire
No matter what the history is between Jess and her brother and SIL, the brother was still with his wife at age 52 and that was HIS choice at that time. You may not like the way she behaves, her way of doing things but he stayed with her. And that decision should be respected by other family members.

Perhaps SIL is rude and abrasive but that doesn't excuse bad manners on the part of others. And to visit when you KNOW that you weren't wanted was looking for trouble, was bad manners and was divisive. Poor old brother sounds like he is sick of the bickering and needs some peace and being caught in the middle of you two doesn't sound too great for his health.

Who wasn't wanted? we were wanted! He wanted us to visit and the ward arrange that we could, no pressure on him, in fact less pressure on him.

No its far from Good, but when you are are the point that she wont even tell you he is unwell ( I don't just mean got a cold, I mean in hospital unwell,) when only a few weeks before bro has been rolling round on the floor with My OH,installing us a new kitchen, and generally spending every sunday morning with us, helping sort out our late parents bungalow, etc etc while she is at church. he has no interest in her church or her church friends- that's his choice.
The reason she cites to the ward staff is 'long standing family feud' which is complete tosh.
No , they are not a 'together' couple, like ships that pass in the night. He does his thing she does hers

If I want to see him, and he wants to see me, should she really not put up and shut up, for half an hour a week?