1. eiggam

    eiggam Registered User

    Jan 5, 2007
    45
    I have been trying to find out how a residential Care home can become a Registered Nursing Care home and accept EMI.
    Does anyone know how a Home can do this?
     
  2. Kathleen

    Kathleen Registered User

    Mar 12, 2005
    639
    West Sussex
    I don't have the answer to your question, but my Mum is an a residential EMI care home, not a nursing home.

    Kathleen
     
  3. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,439
  4. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    69,586
    Kent
    When I was looking for a home for my mother about 12 years ago, I was told it had to be dually registered. She had to have a secure home with combination locks, so she couldn`t escape. She wa not sectioned, but needed an EMI unit.

    I don`t know if this applies today.
     
  5. connie

    connie Registered User

    Mar 7, 2004
    9,519
    Frinton-on-Sea
    Lionel's home has a secure EMI unit, but is residential not nursing.

    He is not in the EMI unit as, having no mobility, he does not need to be in a secure section of the home. Don't know if that helps.
     
  6. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    10,824
    london
    #6 Margarita, May 3, 2007
    Last edited: May 3, 2007
    Will I hope I do not confuse anyone, but in my area a nursing care home is a EMI home


    They pull down the old local authority residence care home , a privet company took it over making it rehabilitation unit on the first floor , elderly care 2nd floor 3rd floors social service brought all the beds for last stages of dementia / AZ , nursing care home, that was
    Formally no as EMI home



    all floors have 20 beds

    All floors door’s have security buttons to get in out of , 3rd floor cost £850 a week , nursing care ( EMI )
     
  7. eiggam

    eiggam Registered User

    Jan 5, 2007
    45
    EMI nursing

    Many thank for all your replies.
    What I am trying to find out is; What are the requirements that make for a Registered EMI nursing Care home. Who do you Register with, and what does the Home have to have in place before it is allowed to be called a Registered Nursing Home.
    I emailed csiw and my email was sent back, saying not a recognised email address.
    I have just started searching and thought this a good place to ask.
    Sooo nice to have replies, and sooo nice to know someone is out there.
    My Mother has to be in a Registered Nusing Home because She is EMI, This is in Wales, all the EMI Homes have no vacancies, and they look aweful, so I was thinking of finding out how difficult it is for a Home to become a Registered Nursing Home. Maybe it's not such a hard thing to accomplish.
    Again thanks for any help.
     
  8. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    10,824
    london
    #8 Margarita, May 4, 2007
    Last edited: May 4, 2007


    I may be wrong, but I don’t think it’s so much how difficult, but how much it would cost I have been trying to find out how a residential Care home can become a Registered Nursing Care home and accept EMI.
    to do that


    It must depend how much your local authority, want to invest they money that they get from goverment , a privet company like the one in my area invested making 2 in my area with the help of social services.

    So what you got to ask who funds the EMI home now its your local authority ?



    I know from mum going to respite , that mum has been to , that have unit 3 floor like the one in my area , but one floor is not nurseing care ( EMI)different company running it with social services , cost lower then in my area for SW to put my mother they . but its an hour half away in car , and I don't know how to drive

    It seem government our now moving away from having they own EMI nursing care home , like they did in the past because it cost the Tax paying to much money , so some local authority our going in to partnership with privet company’s , as they must be going over they budget in what government give them , old story to much money going out no enough coming in or other wise council tax going up more in your area , people don’t like that , my area its gone up council tax , but that because a lot of
    people from Chelsea spilled over , buying up home in fulham , when Mrs thatcher came in to power , because she lived move in to fulham so making it more up and coming area (trendy ) as they say now days


    No the feeling xx


    PS

    I have never been a political person, got to be joking and I still am not


    But if truth be told , if you had seen Fulham , before Mrs. Thatcher came into power , you would of lol schools run down parks rundown .

    Care home( old EMI ) run by local authority , looking like Victorian time, in come Thatcher being all her high society friends from Chelsea , now fulham is booming, giving the working class , key working opportunity to buy home part own ship with housing trust .

    EMI home go , and local authority go into partnership with care home , making dissent home for elderly people and dementia all in one home, and giving people that can not afford to pay for last stages of AZ to go in one of those home , paid by local authority council tax and money they get from government funing for they local authority , not from the person that pay full wack to be in those home , as I have read someone saying that on TP .

    Yes

    Mrs Thatcher cared for her community and has surly left her make on Fulham for people with dementia and the children .My parents came to Fulham in 1960 so I have seen the change for good
     
  9. noelphobic

    noelphobic Registered User

    Feb 24, 2006
    3,452
    Liverpool
    I am not sure whether I really understand the question. If someone has dementia they don't necessarily need to be in a nursing home, unless they also have other needs, which are usually physical eg lack of mobility, needing oxygen. The main difference between a residential home and a nursing home is that a nursing home has to have qualified nurses on duty at all times, although many of the staff wil be care assistants rather than nurses.

    If you look on the CSCI website you should be able to fnd a telephone number for your local office. If you phone them then they should be able to give you further information.

    Hope this is of some help.
     
  10. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    10,824
    london
    #10 Margarita, May 4, 2007
    Last edited: May 4, 2007
    Brenda






    If eiggam mum is in a EMI , that means her needs are high for a registered nursing home .

    Its just that she does not like the look of the EMI, so So wants her in a registered NH , that look better.


    I have been trying to find out how a residential Care home can become a Registered Nursing Care home and accept EMI

    So that why I went into one in my post above in explaining how they did it in my area .
     
  11. Sandy

    Sandy Registered User

    Mar 23, 2005
    6,847
    Hi eiggam,

    I think that some of the confusion here is that you are looking for information specific to Wales and most of us are using the definitions used by the CSCI in England, where care homes with nursing and care homes that can look after people with dementia are not the same thing.

    The contacts (including email) for CSI Wales can be found on their web site:

    http://new.wales.gov.uk/cssiwsubsite/cssiw/Contactus/?lang=en

    The standards for care, including for people with dementia can be found here:

    http://www.csiw.wales.gov.uk/fe/default.asp?n1=7&n2=27

    Their seachable directory of homes is here:

    http://www.csiw.wales.gov.uk/dataviewer/index.asp

    Does your mother have a social worker who can help you with this?

    Take care,

    Sandy
     
  12. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    10,824
    london
    #12 Margarita, May 4, 2007
    Last edited: May 4, 2007
    Sandy I do love it when you post , as you do seem so Informed

    Can you please explain that a bit more , as I am a bit Thick , in getting my head around to understanding that .

    As my one in my area is like that
    But on diffrent levels in one building

    Or maybe I am reading it wrong in what you are syaing xx

    This is it what I am on about EMI (change)

    http://www.lbhf.gov.uk/Directory/Ne...se_care_home_opens_doors_to_new_residents.asp
     
  13. Sandy

    Sandy Registered User

    Mar 23, 2005
    6,847
    Hi Margarita,

    Thanks for the compliment - I do enjoy researching things on the Internet :)

    My comments were based on the advanced search function on the Commision for Social Care Inspection's web site (screen print attached):

    http://www.csci.org.uk/registeredservicesdirectory/RSSearchCategories.asp?Action=SearchCats&Type=CRH

    In the Step 1 selection box you can choose from three levels of care that a home could provide: with nursing, care home only, home not providing medicines or medical treatment. I don't know anything about that last category (sounds a bit like a hotel), I assume that they don't handle any medications??

    In the Step 2 selection box you can choose the type of care required, so dementia for example.

    This means that you could look for a home that offers both nursing and dementia care or a home that only offers dementia care without nursing. The Welsh search options were with nursing or without nursing - no seperate option for dementia care.

    Hope this is a bit clearer than my earlier post.

    Take care,

    Sandy
     

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  14. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    69,586
    Kent
    Thanks from me too Sandy.

    I have bookmarked this site, even though I don`t need it yet. Sometimes, when in a panic, I don`t think straight and will go all around the houses.
     
  15. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    10,824
    london
    Oic yes now undertand what you mean , I have seen that link before from other of your post last year .


    Just that I was trying to explain the new unit that have open in my area , in reply to eiggam
    Original question

    , but seeing eiggam live in Wales ,
    they different in how they run they EMI (NH) units
     
  16. BeckyJan

    BeckyJan Registered User

    Nov 28, 2005
    18,972
    Derbyshire
    Thanks for the link - I have been browsing it. Can you believe it there is nothing for Derbyshire although I finally found something in Bakewell and a few in Cheshire - all of which would be at least 30 mins. drive away. For a hubby who you would want to see daily that could be hard - especially with the winters we normally get here.

    Will go into it in more detail later - but thanks Beckyjan
     
  17. Sandy

    Sandy Registered User

    Mar 23, 2005
    6,847
    BeckyJan - Glad you found it useful, but you should have had some results for Derbyshire.

    If you search for care homes that take people with dementia in Derbyshire you should have found 23 results:

    http://www.csci.org.uk/registeredservicesdirectory/RSSearchResults.asp?Action=SearchByArea&Seltype=CRH&seltypename=Care%20Home&servCats=2&userCats=2&SelArea='C506'

    Looking for homes with nursing that take people with dementia in Derbyshire should have returned 17 results:

    http://www.csci.org.uk/registeredservicesdirectory/RSSearchResults.asp?Action=SearchByArea&Seltype=CRH&seltypename=Care%20Home&servCats=1&userCats=2&SelArea='C506'

    I think it was only the third option in that first dropdown list - homes not providing medicines or medical treatment that had no results:

    http://www.csci.org.uk/registeredservicesdirectory/RSSearchResults.asp?Action=SearchByArea&Seltype=CRH&seltypename=Care%20Home&servCats=3&userCats=2&SelArea='C506'

    Personally I prefer the post code search as you can see homes a specific distance away.

    I'm glad that you and GrannieG both have the site "tucked away" for when you think you might need it.

    I used it two and a half years ago when my father-in-law was diagnosed as I just wanted to get a feel for the level of provision in that area. As my mother-in-law doesn't drive and we live almost 2 hours away understanding local options was very important. What I found shocking at the time was that there were only two care homes that could take my father-in-law - in a town of 164,000.

    Both of these homes had waiting lists (12-15 people) and although we didn't need a place at that time we asked to put his name on the lists and the homes would contact us when a place became free. If we didn't need the place at that time, he would be placed back on the waiting list but given priority if an urgent situation arose. He is still at home but we feel better knowing what the options are.

    One other word of warning about the CSCI search: not every home on the results list is able to take new residents with dementia. Quite a few are licensed to care for certain named individuals with dementia and these will be included in the results. These are presumably people who entered a non-dementia home some time ago and then went on to develop dementia. You can only find out the true license status by reading the care home report on the CSCI web site and by talking to the home itself.

    Take care,

    Sandy
     
  18. BeckyJan

    BeckyJan Registered User

    Nov 28, 2005
    18,972
    Derbyshire
    Sandy - thanks for all this great info. I should have been more explicit. The Derbys. homes mentioned are all quite some distance away. That is the trouble with North Derbyshire we are not well serviced especially in 'mental health' issues. For example Chesterfield is at least 45 mins. drive away - Bakewell is the nearest and I have already made a note of the home there.

    Again I have kept your links. Thanks again. Beckyjan
     
  19. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    10,824
    london
    Yes sandy 2 of the home I rang to day have waiting lists in my area , so am going to get SW to put mum on them , another one I saw on that site link you left is run by Nuns
    as mum is a RC she love that
    sound lovely not to far away , but think I will pop in and see it sometime next week, before asking SW
     
  20. eiggam

    eiggam Registered User

    Jan 5, 2007
    45
    EMI Nursing

    Hi All,
    Margarita; It's not the look of an EMI Home that bothers me, it's the lack of CARE that's very noticeable. I would prefere to see a cluttered Home, yet the patients needs met. Plus, I am told 'My Mother has to be in an EMI nusing Home, then told, the Home has to have a Registered Nurse on site at all times. So, I was prepared to pay for a Registered Nurse to be there through the night, as this Home we all like is not Registered and has no nurse through the night. That will not do... as the Home has to be Registered before my Mum can live there. Due to their concerns for my Mother's well being. YET... The Home where my Mum lives has had 2 suspicious death's these past 2 years, very short staffed, no-one seems to know much, and manager's and supervisor's barely speak english, which must frustrate the elderly there no-end and relatives who phone asking for some info:
    only to be very confused as to what is being said. Then the person who cannot be understood gets frustrated because you tell them " I can't understand you" Surley the elderly must feel ignored to say the least:
    Jenniferpa:
    Your web-site info, was very helpful, now that I had time to read up on their site.
    Sandy:
    Interesting question you asked. My Mother had a Social Worker in the begining of Her diagnoses, then my Mumn was in a HOME out of Her area, SO, I have been asking for a Social worker for years, and am told, Oh, you only need a social worker when you want to move your Mum. I asked Dr.'s supervisor's and nothing and no-one speaking on behalf of my Mum except me and my Sister, even when there was an investigation due to my Mum assusing a staff member of abuse. A statement never used by my Mum before this incident or since. STILL no Social worker involved, Is this allowed and is this legal for a patient who has to have an EMI living situation, yet, has no social worker.
    Very grateful for all this excellent experienced information coming from all concerned here.
    Maggie. thanks
     

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