Electronic tagging

[Tender Face]

Just on the word thing ... hate the term 'tagging' personally ..... prefer something softer like 'sensor'.... sensitive, sensitivity vibes......

Very mixed feelings, too, I confess.... but especially interested because mum lives - for now - independently - and any aids to support that have to be received with an open mind .....

Very interested recently to hear of my Local Authority's options for 'sensors' around the home ..... (Jennifer I know amongst others have offered some useful ideas previously) .... fall sensors, door sensors - even having one on the bathroom door to alert you that frequency of visits may signal a UTI!!!!

Devices being fitted around a living environment don't sit entirely easy with me .... even though I can see the benefits ...... but to have one attached to a person ... is that a substitute for REAL care?????

Just thoughts , Love, Karen, x

 

[Skye]

...... but to have one attached to a person ... is that a substitute for REAL care?????

Don't think it's a substitute, Karen. I see it more as an accessory, just as a zimmer or wheelchair might be. Or an audio monitor in a child's bedroom even.

If it allows the person to retain independence that little while longer, while being able to monitor that they were safe, I think it's all to the good.

Love,

 

[Grannie G]

I don`t see it as a substitute either, I see it as a safety net, just in case.............or an added bit of security to help prolong independence.

 

[DeborahBlythe]

That's a very good point Karen. Of course it (tagging) shouldn't be a substitute for real care, but I think my fear is that it would be used as one if there weren't really well-established protocols and practices established around it. It shouldn't be a huge burden to devise these protocols nor to understand them, but when you can see other things in care homes going on or out in the community which give pause for thought and when one knows how hard-pressed care staff often are and how profit-driven many care homes are, it's doesn't take a great leap of the imagination to see that tagging could just diminish into another cheap way of taking less responsibility for individual care.

 

[Grannie G]

I wouldn`t be as comfortable for `tagging` to be used in residential care, as I would for it to be used in one`s own home.

In residential care, people are paid to care and have no responsibilities other than that. They have their hours on duty set for them, as well as breaks.

Those living at home, receive 24/7 care, usually from one carer. There are no breaks, no going off duty, and household, family and often working responsibilities to be considered.

It`s a completely different ball game.

 

[Tender Face]

Hi Sylvia and Deborah - I agree with both of you! - in fact I think that might have been what I was was trying to say !

I would be horrified to think there was a need for 'tagging' (yuk! - have we found another word yet?) if my mother was in residential care ....

Also that I maybe have it fixed somewhere in my subconscious already that the point at which mum 'wanders' (if indeed she ever does) and puts herself into potential danger is the point at which I have to accept that I cannot care remotely and keep her independent ... so 24/7 care/supervision whether 'bought in' at home or within a residential care setting becomes essential for her safety and takes precedence over her independence .....

Just me ....

Karen, x

 

[Grannie G]

I know how much I would have appreciated tagging for my mother, when she continued to run away from day care.
On one occasion, she flagged down a taxi, which took her home. Then she had to borrow the fare from her neighbour, who phoned me.
On another occasion, she got a bus, the conductor put her off, when she was found to have no money, she went into the nearest pub and asked the Landlord to phone the Police to take her home.
During these times, we were all out looking for her, me, husband, son and daughter-in-law, in addition to the day care staff.

 

[noelphobic]

Am I right in thinking that the Torbay trial isn't electronic tagging, but simply a bracelet with an ID code and a phone number? Similar to a medic alert bracelet? So. in effect, it relies on a well-disposed stranger to a) find the person b)realise they have dementia and c) call the number on the tag. All well and good in it's way, I suppose, but I can't see why anyone couldn't do this: have a bracelet engraved with the carers number. Although I can see this type of lo-tech solution as casuing a lot of problems: there are going to be a fair number of dementia sufferers who are going to resist having their arms examined for a bracelet by a stranger, because you know they're not going to remember that they are wearing it and why. And that's always presupposing that people think to look which is a pretty big supposition.

If that's the case then, as you say, this is nothing new at all. My son wears a medi-tag bracelet which has an id code on, the number of a call centre and also states that he has type one diabetes. I paid for the bracelet and also pay a yearly fee to be subscribed to the service. If he is found unconscious or incoherent then, in theory, whoever finds him phones the number on the bracelet. The call centre holds my contact details and gets in touch with me. They also hold details of his medication, his GP (which I've just realised has changed!) and the hospital he is under.

As far as people looking for it are concerned, then I believe paramedics and ambulance technicians, possibly the police and those trained in first aid, are trained to look at the neck and wrist. Joe Public probably wouldn't, unless they had some experience that gave them knowledge of these things.

The problem with several medical conditions, diabetes and dementia included, is that they can cause the 'patient' to behave 'badly'. This can cause bystanders to believe that they are drunk, under the influence of drugs, dangerous, or maybe a combination of all three! Therefore, many people would not risk getting close enough to 'eyeball' someone's jewellery! Thinking about it, grabbing a stranger's bracelet, necklace or watch could cause a bystander to be mistaken for a mugger

 

[noelphobic]

I would be horrified to think there was a need for 'tagging' (yuk! - have we found another word yet?) if my mother was in residential care ....
Karen, x

I'm playing devil's advocate here, so please don't shoot me down in flames .... I believe that some hospitals tag new born babies so that an alarm goes off if they are taken beyond certain perimeters in the building. Obviously in reponse to attempted and actual kidnapping of new born babies. What's the difference between that and tagging people with dementia in homes - apart from the fact that I've never heard of a person with dementia being kidnapped!

Sadly I have heard of people with dementia being 'abandoned' at hospitals, in the same way that babies have.

 

[Margarita]

· Electronic tagging is used to alert carers to the fact that someone has moved outside a set broundary, but it doesn't tell you where the person is. This could be in the form of a bracelet, for example

Now that sounds good for my mother and I


then Ken said

We already have GSP systems on mobile phones which can track a person and I have nothing against that.

That is what I would like sounds better what is GSP stand for



Ok mum in the late stages , but she can still walk and open the door , as long as the kitchen door is lock , it would mean I could leave her in the house alone , just to go across the road to the supermarket , but it would alert me that she has open the door and if she did go walk around I would know where she is

with Tracking devices are used to locate a person. Using a Global Positioning System somebody can keep track of where exactly the person with dementia isSo

I would have both , Just in case is did wonder out in the street alone

Ken said

I admit that this has to be monitored carefully to stop others with ulterior motives from gaining anything from the use of these devises

ulterior motives why would someone do that , if it is only given to people with Dementia ?

 

[Margarita]

Ken

We already have GSP systems on mobile phones which can track a person and I have nothing against that.

How does it work



Ken can you please tell me how to get that, as I could not find my brother today , was thinking of a mobile for him, but he has a mental issue and would not know how to recharge battery or someone would nick it of him , he needed his injection to day , support worker nor I could find him.

who do I talk to about it please

 

[Tender Face]

I'm playing devil's advocate here, so please don't shoot me down in flames .... I believe that some hospitals tag new born babies so that an alarm goes off if they are taken beyond certain perimeters in the building.

Moi?

You prove my point, Brenda (when I've worked out what point I am making? ) ..... a mother cannot be expected to give 24/7 care to a newborn (although I tried!!!! ) ...... when the need to sleep or any other necessity in life takes over from the immediate role of caring ... I believe someONE rather than someTHING should have the responsibility ...... the problem with 'alarm systems' is that often it's a case of 'too late was the cry' ...... solves nothing of the trauma not being prevented in the first place for the 'victim' ......

Karen,

 

[Lila13]

I have heard of people with dementia being kidnapped, including in this site when people who visited less often took someone away from the main carer.

I am sure my mother wanted me to be tagged; however soon I returned her phone calls it was always too late.

 

[jenniferpa]

GSP or GPS= Global Positioning Satellite.

 

[Skye]

You prove my point, Brenda (when I've worked out what point I am making? ) ..... a mother cannot be expected to give 24/7 care to a newborn (although I tried!!!! ) ...... when the need to sleep or any other necessity in life takes over from the immediate role of caring ... I believe someONE rather than someTHING should have the responsibility

Not sure what point you're making either, Karen!

Are you saying that a carer is expected to give 24/7 care? I'm sorry, but I need to sleep too.

Perhaps you think I should never let John go out on his own, and that I should pay someone to sit and watch him while I get some sleep?

I don't think that's very realistic. Idealistic, perhaps.

 

[Grommit]

When I was at college in 1999, one of the modules was entitiled "Nature or Nurture"?.

The lecturer postulated that there was a distinct possibility that, if an 18month old baby was left to its own devices whilst on a cliff top, it would not crawl to the cliff edge and fall. Indicating that something in the nature of the child would not allow it to bring harm to itself.

The experiment could not, of course, be carried out but the thought is there. Would AD sufferers draw the line at putting themselves in danger?

 

[noelphobic]

When I was at college in 1999, one of the modules was entitiled "Nature or Nurture"?.

The lecturer postulated that there was a distinct possibility that, if an 18month old baby was left to its own devices whilst on a cliff top, it would not crawl to the cliff edge and fall. Indicating that something in the nature of the child would not allow it to bring harm to itself.

The experiment could not, of course, be carried out but the thought is there. Would AD sufferers draw the line at putting themselves in danger?

Very interesting hypothesis, but as you say could not be ethically tested. However, I'm not sure that, even if it were proved true for 18 month olds the same principle could be applied to people with dementia.

 

[Skye]

Not sure it's true for babies either. What about those who put their hand into the fire, or drown in the garden pond?

 

[Grannie G]

I remember seeing an experiment with babies who were crawling, but stopped when the floor became glass.

 

[bernie]

Just on the word thing ... hate the term 'tagging' personally ..... prefer something softer like 'sensor'.... sensitive, sensitivity vibes......

Very mixed feelings, too, I confess.... but especially interested because mum lives - for now - independently - and any aids to support that have to be received with an open mind .....

Very interested recently to hear of my Local Authority's options for 'sensors' around the home ..... (Jennifer I know amongst others have offered some useful ideas previously) .... fall sensors, door sensors - even having one on the bathroom door to alert you that frequency of visits may signal a UTI!!!!

Devices being fitted around a living environment don't sit entirely easy with me .... even though I can see the benefits ...... but to have one attached to a person ... is that a substitute for REAL care?????

Just thoughts , Love, Karen, x

With respect I don't think that anything that stops a person being put into a home can be called not really caring.

Unless you have had to look after a wanderer you don't know what it is like.

I think a lot of people who are posting may have there opinions changed once there loved ones condition deteriorates.