1. Expert Q&A: Protecting a person with dementia from financial abuse - Weds 26 June, 3:30-4:30 pm

    Financial abuse can have serious consequences for a person with dementia. Find out how to protect a person with dementia from financial abuse.

    Sam, our Knowledge Officer (Legal and Welfare Rights) is our expert on this topic. She will be here to answer your questions on Wednesday 26 June between 3:30 - 4:30 pm.

    You can either post questions >here< or email them to us at talkingpoint@alzheimers.org.uk and we'll answer as many as we can on the day.

  1. Deeessex

    Deeessex Registered User

    Jul 16, 2007
    36
    Essex
    Hi All
    Was having a lovely day thought we had made progress as hubbie finally agreed to notifying DVLA of his condition purchased a smart electric bike at the weekend so he can still go to the local shops however arrived home to a barrage of accusation - "It was you who wanted this - we didn't have to tell anyone - you've got your way" and so on and on and on!!!!!:eek:

    I have tried to reassure him that it does not automatically mean he will loose his licence but to no avail. Anyone else declared their condition to DVLA? What happens next????

    He has now gone for a drive!!! Lord give me patience:(
    Denise
     
  2. Kate P

    Kate P Registered User

    Jul 6, 2007
    565
    Merseyside
    Hi Denise,

    Sorry to hear of your driving problems. We had a lot of problems stopping mum from driving - eventually we just told her that the insurance company wouldn't cover her anymore and although she was hellish for a couple of weeks she soon forgot about it.

    We ended up doing it ourselves because we didn't think the DVLA would stop her from driving and she really needed to be stopped!

    We asked our consultant about this and she said the DVLA would probably just write to her and ask her what she thought. she based her decision on the fact that when she asked mum if she felt she was safe driving, mum said "yes". Well she would wouldn't she? We were quite horrified that this was all it would be based on so just stopped her ourselves.

    I understand that the DVLA may ask your husband to complete a driving assessment and then if he passess give him a shorter term licence for a year or so. He will then have to keep being retested to keep it.

    I think one of the important questions is do you think he is safe on the road?
     
  3. Deeessex

    Deeessex Registered User

    Jul 16, 2007
    36
    Essex
    Thank Kate
    At the moment I dont necessarily feel he is unsafe as such and usually he drives locally with me in the car however because of insurance and the fact the law says you have to notify the DVLA I thought it important to do.It has taken many months to get to this point but as yesterday proved there is no action without a very definate reaction of anger from hubbie. He is calmer today thankfully. Its surprising that in notifying the DVLA it could only be done by the person themselves because as with your Mum most people don't have the insight to see their driving might not be 100%. Dr's also are reluctant to give an opinion so the focus is definately on the family to "help" make the right decision and suffer the consequences.
    If my hubbie is asked to have an assessment I think I will leave the country as it will be really difficult for him - not because of the driving but the anxiety that accompanies any "test".Dee:eek:
     
  4. Kate P

    Kate P Registered User

    Jul 6, 2007
    565
    Merseyside
    Yep I know that scenario - any sort of indication that all might not be well with mum sends her off into rage like you wouldn't believe - only on Wednesday she tried to attack her social worker because her very presence indicates that all is not well!!

    Oddly the longer it goes on (we're about four and a half years in now) the less it bothers me - I think you get a bit immune to it.

    Obviously for you, and my dad, it's much harder because it's your spouse and it's 24 hours a day - I get to run back to my own house round the corner and escape (unless she follows me!).

    I know it seems a bit awful but sometimes it's easier for my sister and I to push mum with these things because, as I said, we can leave and dad can pacify her. Is there anyone who could do that for you? Be a buffer as it were?

    The big push we used with mum was that her insurance would be invalid if it wasn't declared and the DVLA will fine you £1000 if you don't declare - this is actually true. Mum has always been law abiding so it did help a little to use those tactics.
     
  5. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,419
    Dee - it's not entirely true that the family are the only ones who are expected to do this (although I have no doubt it seems that way): doctors have a legal responsibility (according to the DVLA) to notify when they have reason to believe that an illness is affecting someone's driving. Unfortunately some doctors takes this to mean "when I have witnessed erratic driving" rather than anything else.

    When it comes to driving I do think you have to take a "no exceptions" stance. It's not just the getting lost aspect, it's the reaction time issue, and that can result in a fatality 100 yards from your home. Being in the car with someone may deal with the first issue, but unless there are dual controls on the car, nothing's going to stop the second.
     
  6. Sandy

    Sandy Registered User

    Mar 23, 2005
    6,847
    Dear Dee,

    You've probably already seen the Alzheimer's Society's fact sheet on driving, but it is a useful reminder of the basic facts:

    http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/factsheet/439

    The option of having an assessment of driving skills is an interesting one, there's some more on that option here:

    http://www.mobility-centres.org.uk/services/drivingassessment.htm

    I admire you for taking the stance you have, even if it means a temporary area of conflict with your husband. Safety is an area that can't be compromised and it would have to be tackled sooner or later.

    Take care,

    Sandy
     
  7. BeverleyY

    BeverleyY Registered User

    Jan 29, 2008
    716
    Ashford, Kent

    I agree with Jennifer 100%. It's one thing someone risking their own life, but something else when they are risking the lives of others because of their slow response times, disorientation etc.

    Dad voluntarily gave up driving right in the early stages of his illness because he felt that if he was driving and had a 'moment' when he felt lost and couldn't remember where he was going that he would be a risk to others.

    I'd have to say if he hadn't given up, by now I'd have been letting down tyres and hiding keys :D

    Beverley x
     
  8. Alison K

    Alison K Registered User

    Mar 29, 2008
    24
    london
    I have to say my dads Dr was very evasive after his recent stroke and said he could drive, as neither of us could witness this I was speechless. His consultant would not commit herself, he is due scan but i do feel it shouldn't be me who makes decision, but my dad is determined to continue driving even thou I pointed out insurance etc to him. No one will cmmit themselves, should it be left to relatives, especially as I live 100 miles from my dad and have idea what his driving is like at present.
     
  9. liny

    liny Registered User

    Apr 17, 2008
    5
    Ormskirk Lancashire
    hubbys and driving

    Hi D

    I am a new user but interested about the problem with your hubbys driving i have gone through the same thing.

    My Husband was stopped by the police doing 94mpr in a 60mpr got 3 points on his licence and had 2 accidents which he said the other drivers had caused he has driven me mad as my children said he could not drive and of course i am getting the blame.

    I have now told him that i can not afford the insurance due to all the accidents and points he has but he still rants and raves now and again but i think now he is getting used to having a woman driving him around or otherwise he has to stay in.


    Good Luck and take care you have my sympathy

    Liny x
     
  10. KenC

    KenC Registered User

    Mar 24, 2006
    913
    Co Durham
    Hi all

    As a person with Lewy Bodies Dementia, I gave up my license because I was refused medication, and I was aware that I was not safe to drive. However over the last two years on the medication my life has got so much better that I have been informed that I may be allowed to get my license back if I fit the guidelines. However having spoken to many doctors about this, I find it quite strange that their view is that it is up to the patient to tell the DVLA and not themselves. They will always hide behind the confidentiality acts to remove themselves from making this decision. Who therefore is responsible if there is an accident, us or the doctor. I always remember many years ago I had a problem with a trapped nerve in my neck and therefore had to wear a collar. After many visits to a hospital for traction I was given a strong telling off by a nursing sister because I had driven to hospital. Why did I not take any notice of my doctors instructions not to drive? Because they (the Doctors) had not told me that in the first place, but had left it to someone else to do the job that is rightly there own. I have had many strong conversations with doctors over this in my role with the Society and as yet have never recieved the right answer. It always comes down to patient confidentiality.

    Best Wishes
    Ken
     
  11. Skye

    Skye Registered User

    Aug 29, 2006
    17,000
    SW Scotland
    Ken, the day that John was first diagnosed, the consultant told us that he was legally obliged to inform DVLA. He did so, and John lost his licence.

    Like you, after a year on medication, he had improved so much that we applied to have it back, with the consultant's approval, and he got it, without any further test.

    Each licence only lasted a year, and each time the consultant had to sign a form confirming that John was fit to drive. Each time, the consultant would ring me up and ask me what I thought.

    In the end, John himself stopped driving, because he was beginning to panic at roundabouts, etc. The following yesr he still wanted to reapply for his licence, but I said that would mean that both I and the consultant would have to lie. He agreed that that wouldn't be right.

    He continued to carry his expired licence about with him, though, I think eventually he forgot that it had expired, and it was good for his morale to have it. He never again attempted to drive.
     
  12. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    68,718
    Kent
    Ken/Hazel, it looks as if the medics make their own rules as they go. On the one hand it`s `patient confidentiality` and on the other hand `practitioner`s duty`.

    There should be a standard procedure so we all know what the position is. It should also be the responsibility of the doctor, in my opinion. They are more able to make an accurate assessment and they would also prevent the ill feeling that happens so often within the family.
     
  13. Sandy

    Sandy Registered User

    Mar 23, 2005
    6,847
    Just stumbled across this really helpful page on the MIND site:

    http://www.mind.org.uk/Information/Legal/driving.htm

    Relevant bit:

    Duty to notify the DVLA

    It is the duty of the licence holder or licence applicant to notify the DVLA of any medical condition which may affect safe driving. Failure to do so is an offence under the Road Traffic Act 1988.

    Sometimes a licence holder
    (a) cannot do so because she lacks mental capacity or
    (b) does not want to do so, for example because s/he does not agree with a doctor's diagnosis. These situations are addressed below.

    (a) Incapacity
    Incapacity refers to occasions when someone is unable to make decisions for themselves (eg because of severe mental illness, brain injury or dementia).

    In these circumstances, government guidelines* state that medical practitioners should inform the DVLA immediately and explain to the patient that they have a legal duty to inform the DVLA.

    (b) a patient does not accept that s/he is not fit to drive
    Under the guidelines the doctor should suggest that the patient seek a second opinion and should make appropriate arrangements for the patient to do so. However the patient will be told not to drive until s/he has obtained the second opinion.

    If the patient continues to drive when the doctor says s/he is unfit, the guidelines say that the doctor can inform the patient's next of kin, and should disclose the relevant medical information immediately in confidence to the medical advisor at the DVLA. If the doctor does do this s/he should inform the patient of the decision to do so, and write to the patient confirming it.

    The doctor's duty to notify the DVLA about someone's health may override his/her duty of confidence to the patient.


    Take care,

    Sandy
     
  14. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    68,718
    Kent
    Well done Sandy.:)
    You can always be relied on to find the necessary paperwork. I`m going to copy your post, if you don`t mind, for future reference.
    Love xx
     
  15. Brucie

    Brucie Registered User

    Jan 31, 2004
    12,413
    near London
    I'll take Sandy's post and make a new sticky thread in resources. This is important stuff. :)
     
  16. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    68,718
    Kent
    Now why didn`t I think of that? :rolleyes:
     
  17. KenC

    KenC Registered User

    Mar 24, 2006
    913
    Co Durham
    Hi Sandy

    This is the first time that I have seen this written down, and it is something that I will note down for the future.

    On my travels with the Society this is one topic that keeps being spoken about by people with this illness.

    Stopping people with the illness from driving, does cause problems to the carers and I feel that this will help many to understand who is responsible once and for all.

    Many thanks again for this.

    Best Wishes
    Ken
     
  18. Deeessex

    Deeessex Registered User

    Jul 16, 2007
    36
    Essex
    Hi All
    Just to update you my husband has now received a yearly licence from the DVLA which satisfies his need to be considered a "normal" driver and passified one of the most difficult conflicts of this journey we are on. Till next year!!
    Dee:)
     

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